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New Evolution 10cc gas engine

Old 11-02-2014, 05:10 AM
  #1876  
ahicks
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I'm not that up on the hows and whys regarding regulator specifics. I'm only guessing. That said, I think the regulator isn't going to be real effective at lower rpms. It can't "make" pressure, only restrict it, so not much going on with it at lower rpm. I think the designers were likely more concerned about the tank pressure at wide open being much higher, than say a mid throttle setting. Without this regulation, you'd be dealing with a carb that wanted to supply to much fuel at wide open, and not enough at lower settings. This would make it pretty tough to tune consistently for any kind of horseplay requiring the engine to run as well at half throttle as it does wide open. Bottom line, until a full on pumper comes onto the scene, I think what they have going on is the best of a tough situation, trying to make these little guys run as well as they do! I get what you're saying about low rpm though. Stuff that leaves the plane noose down too long at low rpm (like a spin for instance) causing me some trouble. Last few "dead stick" landings I've had the result of just that issue (inconsistent idle). That's the reason I can't run any lower than I do at this point (have to stay high enough to make a safe landing from anywhere I'm at, and any attitude, when it quits!). I still feel I have a lot to learn about proper care and feeding here though. May be able to adjust my way out of that. Not enough time spent with them yet. Another season with them might be a different story....

13x6 APC in stock now. Mounted it on the U-Can-Do to test. That engine should be plenty broken in/ready for it at this point. That'll be a while as we're getting ready for the fall Michigan to Florida snow bird migration. Packing, shutting the house down, the trip down, then opening the house there up for the winter and settling in takes me a couple of weeks. Retired here though, so no hurries!

BTW, what are you getting for rpm with your 13x6? Brand prop? -Al

Last edited by ahicks; 11-02-2014 at 05:14 AM.
Old 11-02-2014, 05:51 AM
  #1877  
flyinwalenda
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I have an APC 13x6 on one right after initial break-in and at that point I saw 9700prm. That engine has over 4 gallons through it now with the same prop and the engine has been fine tuned after fully breaking-in. I didn't document the last reading but it was around 10k
Old 11-02-2014, 11:04 AM
  #1878  
flyitrite
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Current prop is the Evolution 13x6. It peaks to 10570 and is tuned to 10300. 450 ele. 58F It is so much better with the Macs in my opinion. I will try an APC 13x6 when I can make a locater bushing for it . I weighed the Evo 13x6 prop against the APC and was very surprised that the APC is about 5 grams lighter. The engine runs like a Swiss watch and only showed the nose-down stall when I intentionally tried that yesterday. I might have to look at putting a video ( first ever for me) up so you all can see how my set up is performing. I noticed Flyingwalendas the other day.
Old 11-24-2014, 06:50 PM
  #1879  
jjoos99
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I am looking at this engine for a hanger 9 50 katana. I had a .70 surpass on it and it was lacking power for that size of plane. Just wondering how big or heavy of plane others are putting this motor on. The flying weight is listed at 7.5 lbs on the high side. With the .70 surpass I had to add weight on the motor mount and put the battery up front so I dont think the extra weight of the 10 cc will be an issue. Any opinions?
thanks
Jeff
Old 11-25-2014, 04:06 AM
  #1880  
flyinwalenda
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Originally Posted by jjoos99
I am looking at this engine for a hanger 9 50 katana. I had a .70 surpass on it and it was lacking power for that size of plane. Just wondering how big or heavy of plane others are putting this motor on. The flying weight is listed at 7.5 lbs on the high side. With the .70 surpass I had to add weight on the motor mount and put the battery up front so I dont think the extra weight of the 10 cc will be an issue. Any opinions?
thanks
Jeff
My lhs sold a Katana and a 10GX to someone last year. It looks nice and flies well. You should have no problems.
Old 11-25-2014, 04:50 AM
  #1881  
ahicks
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I think your results with a 7.5lb plane will depend largely on what you're expecting of it. If' you're considering a hover at half throttle, not going to happen.... Good/great sport performance not out of the question, as long as you aren't looking for unlimited vertical.
Old 11-25-2014, 07:10 AM
  #1882  
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I would tend to agree with ahicks. We did initial 10GX development testing with the Katana, but found that the 15GX was a better combo for 3D flying. 10GX on the Katana is a good sport combination.
Old 11-25-2014, 08:03 AM
  #1883  
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Originally Posted by jspauld2
I would tend to agree with ahicks. We did initial 10GX development testing with the Katana, but found that the 15GX was a better combo for 3D flying. 10GX on the Katana is a good sport combination.
I value the opinions on these forums that is why I ask. I am reading the hp ratings of different engines and see that the 10gx is rated higher then the saito .82 yet that motor is on the high side of the recommended engines for the katana. I am no 3d pilot and am not sure that I have the skill set to ever be. Wouldnt the 15gx be awfully heavy for the katana.
A side note I was disappointed that the katana was discontinued. I had on several years ago and stupid me forgot to plug in the wings before taking off. I was just able to but one of these models new on the classifieds.
Thanks for being patient with me. I am alittle over anal on choicing the right engine.
Jeff
Old 11-25-2014, 08:10 AM
  #1884  
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Jeff,

It is a little heavier, but not overly heavy. For this airplane, the 10cc or 15cc choice is purely preferential, both engines fly the airplane well in their own rights. If you don't plan to fly 3D, then the 10GX should be a good engine for it.

Just my opinion of course.

Thanks,
Jimmy
Old 12-11-2014, 12:28 PM
  #1885  
jjoos99
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Hey guys
I am mounting up my new evo gx10 and was wondering if I can take the chrome center section out of the muffler without effecting performance? I am mounting it sideways in the katana I bought and the full size muffler will not fit. I took it apart and if it will not effect the performance I could just have the 2 pieces welded together and wouldnt have to deal with the getting a new bolt or trying to tap the stainless oem through bolt.
thanks
Jeff
Old 12-11-2014, 03:15 PM
  #1886  
flyinwalenda
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Originally Posted by jjoos99
Hey guys
I am mounting up my new evo gx10 and was wondering if I can take the chrome center section out of the muffler without effecting performance? I am mounting it sideways in the katana I bought and the full size muffler will not fit. I took it apart and if it will not effect the performance I could just have the 2 pieces welded together and wouldnt have to deal with the getting a new bolt or trying to tap the stainless oem through bolt.
thanks
Jeff
Install a muffler/header extension to drop the muffler so it clears the fuselage. Don't shorten the muffler as it will loose back pressure to the tank/carb.
Old 12-11-2014, 06:12 PM
  #1887  
ahicks
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Jeff, if that will make it work, I'd go for it. I'm a little skeptical regarding the degree of "tune" on that muffler anyway. You might notice a difference in sound though.
Old 12-11-2014, 08:03 PM
  #1888  
jjoos99
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Al, I got looking at it tonight and I can cut the chrome center section in half and turn it down in a lathe and it will still fit good. The extension would work also but I would have to really hack up the cowl to allow it all to fit. I work part time at a shop that does vacuum welding and I can have it welded together with a super smooth weld and very little extra weight. Just have to wait till we get a paying job to put in furnace with it.
Jeff
Old 12-12-2014, 04:54 AM
  #1889  
flyinwalenda
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I was just restating what was said in other discussions where some folks removed the center muffler section and noticed sub-par engine performance .
Old 12-12-2014, 05:58 AM
  #1890  
ahicks
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Must have missed it? Was there specific prop rpm data included, or were they relaying perceived/"butt dyno" results?

Regarding back pressure, I've had no issue with the Mac's pipe, the newer style Bison Pitts with small outlets, or the OEM. I really don't believe removing that center section is going to affect that at all. On the OEM, (as well as the Bison Pitts) I think tank pressure will be related to muffler outlet area - which would not be affected at all by removing the center section.

Last edited by ahicks; 12-12-2014 at 06:05 AM.
Old 12-12-2014, 07:19 AM
  #1891  
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Jeff,

It's been so long since we had a 10GX mounted in that airplane that I've forgotten what setup we had. If you remove the center section, you will lose some performance. There are alternatives in the market for side-mounted Pitts-style mufflers that you may be interesting in checking out as well. Have you tried adding an extension between the muffler and engine to make it clear the fuselage?

Jimmy
Old 12-12-2014, 05:27 PM
  #1892  
flyinwalenda
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Here is what the 10GX looks like on a Katana with a muffler/header extension and the stock muffler.
The muffler is about 1/4" below the fuse.


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Old 12-12-2014, 06:04 PM
  #1893  
jjoos99
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I cut out the cowl tonight to the muffler in the standard position and it wont make any cut difference with the extension. Only thing would be the looks of the muffler sticking down lower. The bad thing is I would have to have a 30mm extension to clear the fuse bottom. If I would cut the center piece I would need to cut out 15 mm which would be close to half of its length.
thanks
Jeff

Last edited by jjoos99; 12-12-2014 at 07:08 PM.
Old 12-18-2014, 07:40 PM
  #1894  
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Can I install a tee fitting in the main carb line to fuel with? I know with a nitro carb you can flood the engine that way but wont with the walbro carbs it is ok. What is the deal with this carb? Can I get away with it without flooding the carb and engine?
thanks
Jeff
Old 12-19-2014, 04:23 AM
  #1895  
hoss22193
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I have a tee in my line and have no problems but it must be air tight or you will get bubbles in the line from an air draw.
Old 12-19-2014, 04:29 AM
  #1896  
flyinwalenda
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Originally Posted by jjoos99
Can I install a tee fitting in the main carb line to fuel with? I know with a nitro carb you can flood the engine that way but wont with the walbro carbs it is ok. What is the deal with this carb? Can I get away with it without flooding the carb and engine?
thanks
Jeff
This carb isn't "pumped" like a Walbro-type. You could put a Tee in-line but with enough pressure you can push fuel through the carb.
I plumb all of my gassers with 3-line tanks (fuel dot/ fill line,carb line, and vent line) ,makes things simpler IMO.
Old 12-19-2014, 05:52 AM
  #1897  
ahicks
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Jeff, you can check this out for yourself. Hook a short piece of fuel line to the carb and open the carb up. Then try blowing through the fuel line. If yous is like mine, I'm pretty sure you'll find you can blow through it. There's 2 check valves in the carb, and both are set up to allow fuel flow from the tank (or fuel line) in an unrestricted manner. If the carb is fully closed, it may still allow some fuel through, but how much is going to depend on how the low speed needle is set. Logic would tell us that with the carb set in the idle position, the amount of fuel allowed through the carb should match what the engine would be using on the idle (so not much).

The Walbro pumper (or wannabee) type carbs won't allow this. One of the internal check valves prevents it.

Bottom line, I think the 3 line set up is the better plan.

Last thought. If the engine is mounted inverted or on it's side, any fuel running through the fuel line when filling will not be going into the engine. It'll be dripping onto the ground, your cowl, or whatever. An upright mounted engine though, any fuel going into the carb while filling would run right into the engine. -Al

BTW, the person that told us he thought the engine's performance would be hurt by changing the muffler volume (removing the center section), apparently is willing to sacrifice that performance loss, as he's since mentioned he's installing an OS muffler? Not saying I disagree with his plan to install a different muffler, only that the muffler volume (length) isn't as critical as a lot of people believe - until you start talking about tuned pipes.

Last edited by ahicks; 12-19-2014 at 05:55 AM.
Old 12-19-2014, 09:56 PM
  #1898  
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Just a thought on filling from the carb line. Any dirt in the fuel will be on the wrong side of the clunk filter. The 3 line setup with separate fill line avoids this.
Old 12-24-2014, 06:04 PM
  #1899  
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Santa's brown sleigh dropped a .45 size Phoenix Extra 300 at my front door today. Thinking of side mounting an Evo 10 w/Pitts muffler, using "park" size servos, and a single LiFe battery setup to keep it light. Anyone done anything similar?
Old 12-24-2014, 07:15 PM
  #1900  
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Originally Posted by ahicks
Santa's brown sleigh dropped a .45 size Phoenix Extra 300 at my front door today. Thinking of side mounting an Evo 10 w/Pitts muffler, using "park" size servos, and a single LiFe battery setup to keep it light. Anyone done anything similar?
Yes I used a pitts muffler and Savox SH-0255 micro servos in this DR-109 that I built from plans. These little servos are only about 1/2 oz. each and have metal gears and produce about 50 oz, of torque. Plane turned out very light and flew well. I used an 1100 mah Life pack to power everything.
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