AA5BY

I picked up a very slightly used 10xg and had a Phoenix Edge 59" span on the shelf and received servos and bison today to begin install. A question I've had for some time is whether the Phoenix supplied tank stoppers will work with gas. A Dubro stopper is too small to substitute. Phoenix provides some good tanks but I've not previously used them on gas because of unknown service with gas. In this case, the supplied 8oz tank fits perfectly and I'd like to use it if the stopper will work.

There are some products that will serve both glow and gas, just wondering if any one has tried them?

JoeyCoates

I do not know that it would not work, but I unfortunately doubt it. Most stoppers are made to work with glow and glow materials generally do not get along with gas and vice versa. You could try it for all of the rest of us though...

AA5BY

With the small fuel flow of the 10cc, I'm not so sure that it is a good candidate for testing as a slight bit of contaminate could play havoc. I just checked, and a DuBro tank will fit, but not as good. BTW, one of the guys at the field has wondered if a gas glow plug would work with the 10cc ?

jjoos99

My Feedback: (12)

I believe ahicks just installed the 10gx in the same plane. Maybe he can chime in on yours.
jeff

captinjohn

I will never go to Graves again. Stood there trying to get service while the worker I needed to talk to just keep on BS-ing with a friend. Drove a long ways to get there to......NEVER AGAIN

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Arlyn,
Regarding the stopper, I'll share what I know. I used the Phoenix supplied one in a Citabria for a while (3 months maybe?) with no reason not to try it again. Won't bore with details, but though I love Citabria's, I couldn't stand the way that plane flew. I stripped all the hardware/electronics (except the gas tank) off it and used it on the Extra. On the Extra, using a 6oz Dubro tank, with the stopper designed for gas. Citabria design pretty much requires the front/neck of the tank protruding through the firewall setup. Extra does not. -Al

BTW, though the suggested CG seems way forward, it seems to be working OK there. So far anyway. Still trimming.

AA5BY

Hey Al, The Extra sounds good and thanks for the come back on the stopper... don't know yet what course I'll take with the tank.

I've heard that an Edge is tippy and that could be a problem for me as I've several planes in the hanger that I fly slow and am sometimes guilty of not switching to the right flight hat. The comments on the Edge up the page are noted and they may cause some adjustments. First, I've been mixing a slight bit of aileron reflex at low throttle to any plane suspected of being tippy. I'll keep elevator throw to minimal needed and I might add some side force generators to the wing tips to reduce end loss lift a bit.

It was good to read that the bison muffler performs well.

We've had a few good fly days, but wind has been a problem here as well.

Have you been able to pull Gino from the remodeling long enough to fly a little?

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

As I'm sure you know, these hot rod acrobats are all capable of biting until you get to know them a little (especially these smaller ones, bigger are MUCH more forgiving). Proper setup really important to make a nice flying one, especially regarding control throws and CG. Flying conservative at first can have a huge effect on whether or not it makes it through the first few flights.

Seems like this plane will slow right down Arlyn, so far anyway. I wouldn't put it in the "tippy" category just yet (but I know what you're thinking of for sure!). Regarding elevator, I'm using a fair amount of expo (-70 on low and high?) to keep it soft around center. As mentioned, still trimming. Expo here is more about avoiding a tendency I've found for it to balloon in the flair. Yes, I get the fact the approach may be a little too fast, but rather stay that way than end up putting it back together after a "less than graceful" arrival. Differential maybe something I'll look into later.

Poor Gino....

-Al

AA5BY

I'm nearing completion of the commissioning of the Seagull Edge 540 with the 10cc engine. If it flies as well as it looks, I'll be happy.

JoeyCoates

I do not want to high jack this thread so I am going to post a link to the build thread on the MX-2 that the 10gx is going in. So far it looks good, I weighed absolutely everything that is going in it and am at 5.83 lbs which is under my 6 lbs goal. Hopefully it will stay right around there.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/arf-...l#post11990976

AA5BY

Commissioning of the Seagull Edge 540 with Evolution 10GX is complete and waiting for good flying weather. Weight 6lbs 4oz.

JoeyCoates

That's actually a pretty good weight....

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Really! Best of luck on the maiden. -Al

JoeyCoates

Well, you got me motivated so I had to finish my MX-2 up. I am in the same boat as you are waiting for some good flying weather (we currently have this white, cold, fluffy stuff on the ground called snow, something we do not see very often around Dallas!). But once all was said and done I came in at 5lbs and 12.5oz. I am pretty happy with that, I just hope it flies well!

AA5BY

Joey... 5.75 lbs is a good flying weight for the 10 GX. Will be watching your reports... you may have found an ideal air frame for the little Evo.

The one area I'd like to have seen different on the Seagull Edge 540 was the servo cutouts. It's setup for six standard servos. I used Hitec HS 430BH but would have preferred to use Hitec 225mg mini servos for three ounces of weight savings.

You might comment on what servos cutouts the MX had and what were used..

I'm also interested in What control rods were used on the MX, carbon or steel?

A friend also wanted me to try and go with a gas glow plug instead of the ignition... but I wasn't wanting to test such on a new plane.

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Re: glow plug, curious about hearing more, but not so much I'm going to take point on it.....

AA5BY

If a 10GX install could be lightened by ridding the ignition. the advantage would be significant. There goes the ignition, switch or IBEC, second battery if used or smaller battery if single. On my current built it would likely have meant that carbon fiber push rods could have saved weight.

It might open the door for the 10GX to be used for 3D profile. Such a setup would fit the bill for our friend Gino. With the wider power band, a 3D profile could run a 14x5 prop for thrust, be light and far cleaner and cheaper to run. Gino was a prolific flier and his planes suffered glow soaking. He'd wipe down after every flight and I think the mess was getting to him in the end.

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Going w/glow on mine (w/single bat.) I could save the weight of the ignition module and opto switch. Remains to be seen how significant a saving that might be when it comes to real life performance? As that weight is up near the firewall, to get back in balance I would probably have to move the rudder servo from the tail to the front. Not too big deal, but after replacing a single short carbon fiber push rod with a pull pull setup, not sure what my real weight savings would be. Some, sure. But enough to notice?

Had mine out again recently. Still having the issue with the engine quitting when it's pulled back to idle.... on occasion. At full power it's fine. On the bench and taxiing around it's fine. It's just this occasional flame out when pulling the stick back (usually the down side of a stall turn). I'm hoping this isn't the issue of the Pitts muffler not supplying enough pressure rearing it's ugly head.... that thought occurring to me just recently, after my latest session of fiddling with carb needles. What got me thinking along those lines is the fact the restart, after one of these "incidents", is not immediate. It's more like I'm starting it the first time of the day - with a dry carb.

Currently going back through the fuel system, looking at everything. Have now moved the tank (6oz Dubro) forward about 1.5" so it's up tight against the firewall. Also, I discovered evidence (traces of black gook on the front of the tank) that my pressure line may be leaking at the tank. When installing originally, I didn't think clamping it could be an issue. Have since changed my mind...

I'm mentioning this as I know both of you are ready to maiden, and also using this Pitts muffler.... Heads up! Fingers crossed it's not going to be the issue, or if it is, that we won't loose too much power blocking one of the outlets off.

Carol and I had dinner with Candy and Gino the other night. He did actually bring up flying a couple of times, so there's still hope.

I would LOVE to see this engine sorted to the point it could be used in a performance or 3D application of any sort! If people could see it flying like that, thinking there would be much more interest is gas for power. -Al

AA5BY

Gino was definitely getting burned out on glow fuel mess so if a 10 or 15 GX could be run on a glow plug... gas might interest him. Heck... I might even do a profile and play with a little 3D.

Interesting about the exhaust sizing... I may due the math in the next few minutes and make an exhaust choker if needed.

JoeyCoates

You are having flame out issues right where I was, but with the stock muffler. That is eaxtly what did my Decathlon in, I did a tumbling stall turn at a medium altitude and on the way down noticed the engine was dead, just like what you have experienced.

It was after that when I put it on the bench and did a.lot of running where I have been getting my recent numbers. I have it tuned in really well right now, one of my thoughts though turned to overheating. I do not think it has been getting too hot, but I have an eagle tree telemetry system I could put on for a few flights to see.

But that is exactly where I have been getting mine too.

Oh, the cutouts for the elevator servo was 225 size, in the wings and for rudder were full size. Of course I used a full size on elevator and 225's on ailerons....

The rods were normal steel, I just had a carbon fod I had made for a GP Reactor that met it's demise a while back laying around. That carbon rod just happened to be the same size so I just used it.

AA5BY

Joey... remembering the point that Al made a while back, the 10GX is best when tuned for flight as bench tuning doesn't capture the right setting. For my flights with the Fun Fly 3D, the flight setting required four stroking on the down lines, slight four stroking on the flats and when going up hill it would kick completely into two stroking. Back in the day before muffler pressure and nitro... such was common tuning.... but it required tuning for flight rather than bench.

AA5BY

The exhaust areas between the stock and bison are identical.

JoeyCoates

That is pretty close to how I was tuned to fly as well. One of my issues was the gasket in between the fuel nipple going into the carb body had turned to mush. After the Decathlon went in I pulled the engine out to bench run it as it had dead sticked before, I simply had enough altitude to make the field the other times. So when I pulled the engine as I was removing the fuel line I noticed the nipple would turn, that's how I found the deteriorated gasket. I have since replaced it with an o-ring, I have to wonder if it was sucking some air causing it to go lean at idle.

For my first few flights I am going to keep some altitude in case it dead sticks and work on feeling it out. I would also like to try getting it up while nobody else is flying, I initially had enough altitude to get the Decathlon back but I could not hear that the engine had died on the down line due to other engines. By time I pulled out of the down line I was already low and when I tried to come up on the throttle I realized that it was dead. I was just too low to make the field at that point so I set up a glide slope, cleared one barbed wire fence but could not clear the second. Amazing what a barbed wire fence will do to an airplane!

JoeyCoates

So the exit area is the same for both mufflers? I swear I picked up 500 rpm putting the bisson on, and I mean back to back within 5 minutes of one another. I also had to add more fuel with the bisson, like 1/2 turn more on the high end. The bisson would *appear* to have less total volume than the stock muffler, but I was really expecting that to give me a decrease in rpm, certainly not an increase. I am not complaining as the bisson really fits this airframe very, very nicely and I would probably have had to do some hacking to use the stock muffler along with an extension between the block and muffler.

I have already stated this as well, but one of those little dubro extensions that goes on the exit of the muffler cost 500 rpm's as well.

When I was flying the Decathlon I had the stock mufiler with dubro extension, it turned APC 13X6 at 10k. Put it on bench after Decathlon died and was the same, 10k. While on bench took extension off and it immediately went to 10.5k. Then tried bisson and went to 11k. A 1000 rpm increase from what I was sitting at on a 7.5+ lbs airplane going to a 5.75 lbs airplane should be noticeable.

JoeyCoates

It double posted..