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  1. #76
    nonstoprc's Avatar
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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    Not sure if you checked the two long bolts holding the carb to the body. If they are not tighten, you will have an air leak and the engine will run badly.

    30:1 on synthetic oil is high and the tiny passages inside the carb may be partially blocked. The best way to test is to use a replacement carb.
    Where facts are few, experts are many.
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  2. #77
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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    If he's using 100% full synthetic, 30:1 is way to much oil. 30:1 is for petroleum based oil. I run 100:1 in the winter and 80:1 in the hot summer months. I use Quicksilver 100% Full Synthetic. He may be oil fouling his plug, or maybe the fuel is having a problem going thru the screen.
    I don't know why people are so stubborn when it come to 100:1 full synthetic mix. My friends Bryson 50 has been running it for 10+ years.
    Neither of us have ever had an oil related engine failure or problem, and our spark plugs always come out deposite free. Dennis
    Have you hugged your RC Planes today ?

  3. #78
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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...


    ORIGINAL: 7kings


    ORIGINAL: rcmadnessp51


    ...these loosen up and hung the throttle at about half, had to run it out of fuel and dead stick it in...
    LOL - that sucks. More than anything, it's nerve-wracking when that happens (and worse when the tank is full and you have to watch it fly around in Nascar laps for twenty minutes just waiting for the engine to quit...)
    A remotely operated IBEC, such as the Tech Aero, would eliminate this type of issue from being a problem. You can simply shut the engine off at any time by powering down the CDI.....

    Speaking CDI, CH is selling CDI's again of the same design as the older C&H. I've not had any problems with the RCExl but in case I do, I havea coupleCH I purchased directly from Bill Carpenter last year, ready to take over.

    But judging from your symptoms, it doesn't sound like a CDI issue to me..............


    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  4. #79

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...


    ORIGINAL: freeonthree

    If he's using 100% full synthetic, 30:1 is way to much oil. 30:1 is for petroleum based oil. I run 100:1 in the winter and 80:1 in the hot summer months. I use Quicksilver 100% Full Synthetic. He may be oil fouling his plug, or maybe the fuel is having a problem going thru the screen.
    I don't know why people are so stubborn when it come to 100:1 full synthetic mix. My friends Bryson 50 has been running it for 10+ years.
    Neither of us have ever had an oil related engine failure or problem, and our spark plugs always come out deposite free. Dennis
    I'm running a synthetic blend, and the plug is not fouling. Also, according to DLE, they recommend synthetic with a 30:1 mix.

    Again, just quoting the engine manufacturer - I figure it's always a safe bet to go with the specifications provided by the folks who make the thing...


  5. #80
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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    I guess well just have to agree to disagree. lol Dennis
    Have you hugged your RC Planes today ?

  6. #81

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    I've had a similar problem with my DLE55. Both times, it was the ignition module. I found the ignition tester from RC Extreme http://www.rcextremepower.net/ignitions.html to be very helpful in finding my problem. Try another ignition module if you can.

  7. #82

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    Hello 7King,

    I think we are all anxious to see what the real problem is. After all advices you got from the gurus I really think you need to do the following in that order.

    1) dismount all parts from the carb , use Carb cleaner and blow air everywhere to remove any residue. the best will be the change the Carb kit. it only cost less than $10 on eBay for a WT20 kit.
    2) rebuild the tank and fuel line but i guess you did that already
    3) then replace the ignition and the sensor

    DO NOT USE synthetic at 30:1 but move down to 50:1 to be on the conservative side. It will not fix your issue but will keep the doctor away... listen to the expert on that one.

    We are all hoping for a recovery and are waiting for the diagnose.

    thanks

  8. #83

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    I've got several items on my list to try, and I'll be working through them this weekend (although, the first thing I need to do is to see if the problem resurfaces on Saturday morning, or else my troubleshooting will be inconclusive). I'll post my results.

    Thanks again everyone.

  9. #84

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...


    ORIGINAL: 7kings


    ORIGINAL: Ih82crash

    I will bet you a thousand dollars that it is your ignition module. I have had this exact problem on my engine that has an RC Excel ignition. Both times it did it, I replaced the ignition module and the engine ran perfect. I asked around the web and nobody could help. I received the exact same advice you did but nothing fixed the problem until I replaced the ignition module. Incidentally both times i left the pick up sensor and switches in place and only replaced the module. Try it and I would be willing to bet that your problem disappears. Here is a link to a video that I made.... does it look familiar?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlHyOeMV9L0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2XcAEKraTg
    Interesting. The first video is similar, although I need to rechoke the engine after the first little burst of idle in order to get it to do it again. Did you experience the same ''once it got running for the day, it was perfect'' behavior?

    yes once it started it was extremely reliable. If I let the engine cool down it would be hard to start again, but once it started It was completely reliable. I am super interested to hear your report if you replace the ignition. ....

  10. #85

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    ugghhh sorry but my post did not appear when I hit enter dunno what happened sorry bro jus tryin to help but rcu don't seem to be cooperating right now LOL






    ORIGINAL: 7kings


    ORIGINAL: warbird addict

    Not to be argumentive but after looking at over 10 different types of 2 stroke oils of different flavors and colors both synthetic and non synthetic they all had a specified mix rate listed,Valley view does alot of warrantee work on the DLE stuff and I think his name is Jody has posted on numerous threads to the effect that anything above 87 octane in these engines may well be the cause of ''PHANTOM'' problems thats not to say that you don't have an issue somewhere else be it an ignition or plumbing problem etc. however , it never hurts to start with the basics and go from there, atleast you will have eliminated those as potential problems , troubleshooting 101 start at the bottom and work up from there.
    troubleshooting an engine any engine is a systematic aproach that has to start somewhere by eliminating the variables one by one otherwise you'll hopscotching around indefinitely and never solve the problem, I do this evey day in a different field entirely but the theory is still very sound and applies to anything that isn't working as prescribed, it's the things you take for granted or overlook that will keep you guessing forever, I'll be happy to give the latest example I'm currently dealing with.
    ORIGINAL: 7kings


    ORIGINAL: warbird addict

    Valid points for sure but from a troubleshooting standpoint you have to start with the basics of making sure the minimum requirements are met and eliminated as the problem and troubleshoot from there, the 93 octane we already know is a problem some would argue that point but it's already been clearly stated by the people who make the engines that it's not a good idea and has no benefit to use anything other than 87 octane.
    The OP has already stated that he's been all over the map with the needle settings I'm just curious as to exactly what the specified mix rate is listed on the oil he's using, that coupled with the 93 octane could have a significant impact on the problems he's having, but before you can troubleshoot the problem you first have to address the basics specificly and eliminate those as the problem, troubleshooting starts with step 1 the basics and works forward to the solution
    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree (which I hate to do when I've asked for help).

    1: The DLE manual (which are actually the people who manufacture the engine, not ValleyΒ*View), clearly states that their recommended fuel is between 87-93 octane, so this is not an issue per the manufacturer.
    32 to 1 is not unrealistic for an oil design that has an optimal ratio of 50 to 1 it's well within tolerance what it's giving you is a high low tolerance show me an oil with a 100 to optimal ratio that shows a 32 to 1 mix on the label? just saying dude finding the "NEEDLE IN THE HAYSTACK" starts with eliminating as much hay as possible first, it makes the search alot easier LOL If I were you I would seriously consider giving Jodi at Valley View a call and pose your quesion to him the guy knows his ****e frontwards and backwards and if he doesn't know he'll damned sure find out, he's good people and if he cannot fix you over the phone he'll do all he can to get you fixed up and flying again at some point after banging your head against the wall you need to say to yourself this thing needs to go where they have the right test equipment to know with certainty what the problem is, fix it and return it with suggestions on how to avoid having the same problem in the future, all of my DL and DLE engines run perfectly no problems but I stick to the recomendations posted by the people who do the warrantee work and what their findings have revealed and thus far it has served me extremely well.
    If it were me I would check evrything I could check lacking sophisitcated test equipment (IE) tank plumbing /stopper/ carb obstructions/ vacume leaks/loose carb bolts/ bad gaskets/bad diaphragm/ new plug /clean dry fuel with proper mix ratio etc and if that does not net you any results send it to an authorized warrantee facility and have them put it on the test equipment and get it fixed for free under warrantee, unless you can prove a part is bad via accepted testing standards you are going to accomplish nothing more than throwing parts at it in hopes it fixes itself and hopefully it does not cost you an airframe in the process





    2: 2-cycle oil is not generally engineered to be mixed at a specific ratio to be effective. As I've stated, on many (if not most) 2-cycle oil containers, mix quantities are listed for various mix ratios. The proper ratio is determined by the engine manufacturer, who decides exactly how much oil is needed for their mechanical application to operate as intended. The oil does not care how it is mixed. On the oil I've been using (Husqvarna), it lists mix quantities for 32:1, 50:1, and 100:1.
    3: Regarding the earlier statement that higher octane fuel is more likely to cause preignition on low-compression engines, it's just completely backwards. The higher the combustion chamber compression ratio, the more likely it is to cause preignition (caused by the heat generated by the compression of gasses), which is then countered by the cooler-burning of high-octane fuel. Low-compression engines are able to run low-octane fuel because they do not generate as much heat during the compression stroke, which is a leading factor when talking about preignition (there are other factors, but we're sticking to compression ratios here). Honestly, the only thing I would be concerned about by running high-octane fuel in a low compression (non-boosted) engine is the possibility of engine deposits down the road.

    I'm not trying to be an *****, and I appreciate the help, but I just wanted to clear that up so we're not traveling down a false troubleshooting path.

    Thanks.
    [img][/img]


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  11. #86
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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    I had the same issue with a DA 50. Some days it would run fine some not. Always chasing a needle setting. What I think was happening to mine was the metering needle was sticking. I would clean out the carb with carb cleaner and replace all the gaskets and flexible parts. Would run fine for a few outtings and act up again. In the end, it was a new carb that fixed the issue for good.

    On a side note, when the Amsoil 100-1 thing was in full bloom I followed suit and ran Saber at 80-1 on my DA 150. I never had any overheating issues but the engine just did not run as nice as I would have thought. I spoke with a relitive who is a long time cart racer. He told me that Walbro carbs were clibrated to run a more viscus fuel mix and he got the best throttle response running 24-1 Penzoil. Hard to argue with a guy with a room full of trophies so I took his advise and mixed up some Penzoil 50-1. The engine behaved much better and had a more liniar throttle response. This is not an argument for Penzoil, I'm just saying that I seriously doubt that running 30-1 or any oil is going to affect carburation.
    Of course it's true, I read it on the Internet.

  12. #87
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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    I had the same issue with a brand new out of the original bag RCEXL ignition on an engine. It would just pop and not start, or start and then quit when cold, but once you battled with it long enough to get it running for a while, then it ran fine the rest of the day. I did the usual trouble shooting with no luck, and then happened to mention it to Bill from CH Ignitions. He said to try a 6 volt battery instead of the 4.8 volt battery I had been using. That cleared it up and it ran perfectly hot or cold. He said every once in a while you encounter one that has weak spark until it warms up a bit from running/being used. The 6 volts steps up the quality of the spark enough to let it perform as it should on 4.8 volts if the unit was perfect.

    AV8TOR
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  13. #88
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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    7Kings, have you done Jodi's ignition test that is in the sticky? (post 24)
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8673009/tm.htm

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    This is my first reply to any post. let me explain who I am . I''m a retired certified master auto technition so my diagnostic procedures will reflect that. It seems to me that deciding whether a problem is fuel or electrically based has no good method of diagnosis in this forum.. Maybe I can help. What you need will be an automotive inductive pickup timing light. About $35.00 at Walmart and a 12volt battery to power the light.The process involves powering the timing light w/the 12v battery and clipping the pickup around the spark plug lead. Start the engine depress the trigger on the timing light and look at the bulb on the timing light.If the light is blinking at an absolute steady pulse and the engine is running poorly the problem is not in the ignition.Unless you have a spark plug malfunctioning.change the spark plug and if the conditions remain the same you can then focus on a fuel/air issue.Should you discover an unsteady pulse in the timing light begin further diagnosis by checking battery condition/strength and all connections. let me add that in a no start condition the timing light


    will still blink as you flip the prop. no blink = no spark
    The original post leads me to consider a heat issue in either the ignition module or hall effect pickup. Try this Warm the ignition module with a hair drier when the problem is present Don't cook it just make it warm to the touch do the same for the pickup if the warmed module doesn't correct or significantly modify the original concern check the pickup. keep in mind that it doesn't take the voltage/amperage of a spark plug lead to pulse most(not all) timing lights so if you isolate the single signal wire from the pickup harness to the ign. module clamp the timing light pickup around it your light may pulse if your light blinks your still looking for a steady pulse with the engine running. the result in most cases,with an unseady blinking light will be a failed ign.module
    Keep in mind that all electronic components have smoke built into them! If you let it out the component is ruined
    Hope this gets you all on the road to separating air/fuel and ignition diagnosis

  15. #90

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    The timing light won't work on our RF shielded ignition high tension leads. There is no signal to fire it.
    Pe, (www.mvvs.nl), MVVS, MOKImotor, RCexl, MTW, Xoar, Mejzlik.
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  16. #91

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    So this Walmart Innova Inductive thing will also be helpful for correct timing setup of engine and testing the ignition, am I right? Please advise

  17. #92

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    Mr Reivers; as per the manual; you do connect the induction on the spark plug wire for inductive signaling, here is the manual link http://www.equus.com/Content/Support...l/3551-55e.pdf, as per I understand you are saying; the RF shield cable will not allow the instrument to receive proper information?. Please advise

  18. #93
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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    The shielded spark plug wire will prevent the inductive pickup from picking up the spark signal.

    It has nothing to do with setting the timing, he's trying to prove its making a spark or in this case a steady spark and as Pe said, it wont work.

    If you want to set the timing you need a degree wheel.

    If you want to test an ignition get an ignition tester from Milton
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  19. #94

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...


    ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

    I had the same issue with a brand new out of the original bag RCEXL ignition on an engine. It would just pop and not start, or start and then quit when cold, but once you battled with it long enough to get it running for a while, then it ran fine the rest of the day. I did the usual trouble shooting with no luck, and then happened to mention it to Bill from CH Ignitions. He said to try a 6 volt battery instead of the 4.8 volt battery I had been using. That cleared it up and it ran perfectly hot or cold. He said every once in a while you encounter one that has weak spark until it warms up a bit from running/being used. The 6 volts steps up the quality of the spark enough to let it perform as it should on 4.8 volts if the unit was perfect.

    AV8TOR
    Thanks - I'm actually running a 2S LiFE (6.6v) regulated to 5.8v for the ignition. The ignition is rated to 6v. I've verified the output with a voltmeter just to be on the safe side.


  20. #95

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    ORIGINAL: 7kings


    ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

    I had the same issue with a brand new out of the original bag RCEXL ignition on an engine. It would just pop and not start, or start and then quit when cold, but once you battled with it long enough to get it running for a while, then it ran fine the rest of the day. I did the usual trouble shooting with no luck, and then happened to mention it to Bill from CH Ignitions. He said to try a 6 volt battery instead of the 4.8 volt battery I had been using. That cleared it up and it ran perfectly hot or cold. He said every once in a while you encounter one that has weak spark until it warms up a bit from running/being used. The 6 volts steps up the quality of the spark enough to let it perform as it should on 4.8 volts if the unit was perfect.

    AV8TOR
    Thanks - I'm actually running a 2S LiFE (6.6v) regulated to 5.8v for the ignition. The ignition is rated to 6v. I've verified the output with a voltmeter just to be on the safe side.
    Oh my gosh! Not safe enough for me.

    Now I have to ask have you tried a different voltage source (4.8 volt fresh, fully charged, and tested on another running engine for vibration proof) such as a 4 cell NiCd?
    This is almost always one of the first tests we do at the field (regulators are notorious problem makers).

    If you have already, good. If not, I think you should add it to your list of things to try.

    Note: I use regulators on almost all my gas planes with great success.

    Oops!

  21. #96

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    what oil are you running.   Some of the oils are ment to be run at 100 to 1

  22. #97

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    I've used a timing light on DA,DLE, and Evolution engines. As a matter of fact that's what I used to get the correct timing on an evolution 56 that I put an ignition system on'for a fellow club member, that wasn't designed for that engine. so as to not start a ******* contest I'll not respond to this thread again. I'll close by saying Try it you'll like it

  23. #98

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...


    ORIGINAL: kmeyers

    ORIGINAL: 7kings


    ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

    I had the same issue with a brand new out of the original bag RCEXL ignition on an engine. It would just pop and not start, or start and then quit when cold, but once you battled with it long enough to get it running for a while, then it ran fine the rest of the day. I did the usual trouble shooting with no luck, and then happened to mention it to Bill from CH Ignitions. He said to try a 6 volt battery instead of the 4.8 volt battery I had been using. That cleared it up and it ran perfectly hot or cold. He said every once in a while you encounter one that has weak spark until it warms up a bit from running/being used. The 6 volts steps up the quality of the spark enough to let it perform as it should on 4.8 volts if the unit was perfect.

    AV8TOR
    Thanks - I'm actually running a 2S LiFE (6.6v) regulated to 5.8v for the ignition. The ignition is rated to 6v. I've verified the output with a voltmeter just to be on the safe side.
    Oh my gosh! Not safe enough for me.

    Now I have to ask have you tried a different voltage source (4.8 volt fresh, fully charged, and tested on another running engine for vibration proof) such as a 4 cell NiCd?
    This is almost always one of the first tests we do at the field (regulators are notorious problem makers).

    If you have already, good. If not, I think you should add it to your list of things to try.

    Note: I use regulators on almost all my gas planes with great success.

    I use LiFE's pretty exclusively now (all the benefits of LiPO without any of the dangers and downsides), and have them on my DLE 30 as well. They're becoming pretty much the standard at my field.


  24. #99

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    In my tests, I needed to bare a HT wire to allow the clamp to be used.
    There may be stuff around that will pick up very small pulse signals. Please give some more information on the test items you are using. Without that information, your post is useless!!!!!
    Is youre clamp tester available in the usa or worldwide??? Professional equipment only???
    I for certain would like to have one if I can afford it.

    PS
    claiming you are "out of here" after a stament makes my hair stand on end ( goose flesh!) . Thing to ponder: This is a discussion forum for all to share and use experience.
    My intention is not to be negative. Most flash lights just do not support your experience.

    Pe, (www.mvvs.nl), MVVS, MOKImotor, RCexl, MTW, Xoar, Mejzlik.
    Blessing in ignorance? There is sanctuary in analysis.

  25. #100

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    RE: DLE 55 weirdness...

    I am swithching to A123 cells as well. High current capability, low internal resistance. NO memory items, hardly any discharge, easy to charge. All the negatives of previous technology seems to be solved if you know how to charge them.
    If you are not going all out in weight savings, this is the power supply we have been waiting for.
    Pe, (www.mvvs.nl), MVVS, MOKImotor, RCexl, MTW, Xoar, Mejzlik.
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