psgugrad

My Feedback: (2)

I know this is already being covered in the glow engine forum, but I thought I'd introduce it here so the gas guys who might never visit the glow forum can hear about it. Plus, it really is a gasoline engine anyway and not a glow engine as it does not run on glow fuel. I just ordered mine today, hope it's here by the weekend!!


http://www.nvengines.com/index.php?p...mart&Itemid=65

I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more coverage as this is pretty big news. I'm also surprised it took someone this long to do something like this. Could this technology theoretically make possible .01 gasoline engines in park flyers???

Mike

bcchi

Please let us no how this works out for you.
BCCHI

earlwb

Amazingly enough the little gas engine does actually run and work quite well too.
That makes the NV-Engines .40GX  (6.5cc) the smallest production gasoline engine on the market so far.
I can see them doing this with their .25's too. Maybe even the .15 engines.

You can always skip to the last few pages, you don't have to go through the entire thread unless you want to.
reference:  http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11..._1/key_/tm.htm

psgugrad

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for your useful posts, BTW in the glow thread. I kinda didn't want to buy this engine as IMO there will be a dozen like this in a year, but I've never owned a Norvel and wanted to try something new. I hope Brown puts the hammer down!!!

earlwb

You are welcome.
I seriously doubt anyone can duplicate this method that they use for having the engines run on gasoline. The special ceramic like coating they use on the cylinders is what lets them do it. The engine runs at a higher operating temperature than glow engines do. The AAC, ABC, ABN, ABL types of cylinders can't handle the higher temperatures, and lapped piston engines and ringed piston engines can't do it either. The Russians are the only ones making these special cylinders for model engines too, so they more or less have the market cornered in this respect. Now then someone could make a engine run the same as the NV Engines gas engine does, but I doubt it will last very long though.

davidhand

Do they have to be ordered from Germany?

earlwb

http://www.nvengines.com/
NV-Engines is a USA seller for the engines. The engines are made inRussia.

psgugrad

My Feedback: (2)

I have only run one 6 oz tank through mine. One thing I found that I did not see in the instructions is the fact that the cylinder, or at least it's coating, does not conduct electricity. I used aligator clips, one on the tip of the plug and one grounded to the muffler. After several failed attempts without so much as a pop, I connected the other clip to the base of the plug and the motor, despite being flooded, started instantly. I ran mine between 5k and 9k to break it in and I was SHOCKED at how well the motor ran...I idled it down once for a minute and despite being set way too rich the motor didn't even hint at dying. Obviously, final verdict will have to wait until next week when I have a chance to fly, but so far I'm impressed.

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

Subscribed. This is of great interest to me. Watching closely. I've heard of experiments in the past running glow engines on gasoline with moderate success. I was wondering how long before someone productized it. So what is the fuel mix?
Edwin

earlwb

Well it does work amazingly well for a gas engine with a glow plug. Somebody did really well on the engineering of it and the design. It has a lot of hang time using a 6 ounce fuel tank too. I typically only use like 1/2 of a tank oif fuel per flight.

Here is a video clip of me flying the NV_Engines GX40 in my 3D stunt plane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJnwE...tsAme253Z2vaJw

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

Is the date on that video right? Has this engine been out that long? How did I miss that?
Edwin

GBR2

My Feedback: (1)

I only recently found out about this engine. It's existance hasn't been well publicized.

earlwb

My apologies on the date on the video, It is a cheap video camera and the date/time setting feature sucks. So it uses a default date, as I am too lazy to constantly have to change the text file on the SD car everytime I power up the video camera. I only started using and flying the NV-Engines GX40 gas engine this late spring and summer.

I think they only started selling the engines early this year.

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

I'm not sure if you mentioned this in the other thread, but what oil ratio are you using?

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

No problem Earl. I just thought I was getting old timers disease with a touch of CRS. I like to stay on top of engine developments cause as of recently there are some good gas alternatives coming to market.
Edwin

earlwb

I use Klotx Benol castor oil, mixed at a 15% ratio. NV-Engines suggests using Klotz Benol at a 14% ratio. I posted a excerpt from the instruction sheet here:
reference http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11519027

If you cannot get Klotz Benol you can use SIG castor or equivalent and mix it up too. But you want to let the fuel container sit for a few days to ensure it is mixed up good. Klotz puts in something extra in the Klotz Benol that lets it mix better with gasoline. Some people suggest that even with the Klotz Benol you want to let the fuel container sit for a couple of days to ensure it mixes up good and is evenly distributed throughout the mix.

One thing about running the engine, is to let it warm up about 15 to 30 seconds before you remove the glow plug. The engine really likes getting heated up good before it runs right. So procrastinate a little on the takeoffs thus getting the engine warmed up good first.

As someone already mentioned the cylinder is ceramic coated and doesn't conduct electricity, so if you use alligator clips on the glow plug you will need to get a bit creative with the ground lead.

The engine uses a OS P3 Ultra hot turbo glow plug. It is commonly used on RC car engines, so it will be in the RC car section atthose hobby shops that sell RC car stuff.
There are a couple of other brand glow plugs that appear to be compatible, but I haven't tried them yet. The glow plug could burn out during the initial engine break in runs, so having a spare or two is a good idea.

psgugrad

My Feedback: (2)

Well...I finally got a chance to fly mine this week. Unfortunately, it hasn't been running as well in flight as on the ground when I ran it for the first time. Therefore, I cannot yet give it a 100% thumbs up. I have six flights on it now and it is gradually getting better, so maybe it just needs more time. The fuel efficiency is amazing: 20 minutes at full throttle on a 6oz tank...that's about HALF of what a .40 glow would use. That's good news as KLOTZ benol isn't cheap...the gas is about 12.50/gallon mixed up. However, since the engine uses so much less fuel it really is a lot cheaper to operate (not that I really fly enough for the savings to make a difference)

Again, I've been a little disappointed with it's running characteristics...4 flights and two were deadsticks, but it does seem to be getting better so I suspect with more time it could become a keeper. My biggest disappointment has been the amount of slop the thing produces. It's almost as bad as a glow engine so if you're expecting it to keep your place as clean as a "regular" gas engine using 30:1 standard 2 stroke you'll be disappointed. If NV is planning to come out with a larger version of this engine, then it needs to have needle bearings at the bottom of the rod to get the needed oil content below 10%. I'll post updates as I can. Cheers!

PS: running an APC 12-5 on mine

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

Agreed, the required oil ratio is a deal breaker for me. I know from my converted Super Tigres that the oily mess is almost as bad a glow fuel when you're running 15:1. They almost had a home run with this one, but the lack of a needle bearing on the rod makes it come up just short.

geeter

My Feedback: (110)

i like the idea of a small gas engine but buying all that oil is costly at 10.00 a pint. it takes over a pint to make a gallon sooooooo it breaks down to 12.50 13.00 a gallon. if you fly other nitro motors like me, there is no savings because you by nitro fuel anyway. however if you fly just fly gas engines even 20 and 30 cc ones you have to buy a different oil. so you have a trade off, however there is a little savings in this because you use very little gas in the .40cc engine. go nitro or gas because if you have to buy it all it gets costly. what you save on one ,you spend on the other. i'll stick with one fuel,nitro, for now until i decide to change over to gas only................................RON

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

The instructions don't say to buy Benol. They say castor oil. Klotz Super Techniplate castor is $13.69 a quart . Cheaper if you buy more than one. Takes a bit over a pint to do a gallon. So that makes it around ten bucks a gallon for fuel. I've used the stuff in pump gas. It works fine in converted Saito & Super Tigre engines on gas. I've done it.

CR

whiskey29

I know this is old post,
I have just acquired Norvel 40 gx

With that now I have
15% Nitro for pylon and heil
7.5% Nitro for general sport flying
40:1 gas mix for zenoah heli engine
25:1 gas mix for other gas engine
and now 14% castor gas blend for the norvel.

Luckily we don't have diesel stuff and C/L facilities, if not I will probably have diesel mix and FAI mix too
Its great that smaller gas engines like Norvel appears, I found it a different experience and knowledge, even just to start it I am still not used to it.
I hope that there are more sizes available in the future.

Goldenduff

Hello...I also know this an old thread....maybe I should pm Whiskey29. Anyhow, very interested in NV. How does it compare and contrast with say the evolution 10cc. That requires an onboard battery. Does this mean the evolution is more reliable and throttles up better? Weight wise the NV looks good (?no onboard battery and timer unit/CDI)- do you think the power is comparable?

Neither has a pump. The Evo has a CDI. Can anyone convince me one over the other?

Many thanks

earlwb

Well, the NV Engines GX 40 is .40 cubic inch displacement or 6.5cc. The Evolution 10cc engine is .61 cubic inch displacement. Thus the Evolution engine has quite a bit of a edge in performance due to its larger displacement. So the Evo 10cc engine is more powerful than the NV Engines GX 40. But the GX 40 acts more like a .45 or .46 glow engine in actual useage. I am running a 12x4 prop on the engine in my Hot Knife stunt plane. The GX .40 does well with a 11x6 prop too. Now then the Evo 10cc engine likes larger props as well as the 12x6 and 12x7 props work well on it even some 13 inch props work.

But GX 40 shines when you need a gas engine to fit in a plane where the CD module and extra battery won't fit. Such as my Hot Knife profile 3D plane depicted earlier. There isn't any place to put the extra stuff. Now if the plane has the room to stick in a CDI unit and maybe a extra battery, then the Evo 10cc engine may be the way to go. Also if the plane is a larger size plane then the Evo engine would work better as well. But if you had a smaller ,40 size plane the NV Engines GX 40 is the way to go.

Goldenduff

Many thanks for the reply. Provided the CDI battery can be placed anywhere the weight penalty is not too much of a concern. Does the CDI unit improve reliability? I've the NV is pretty reliable. Is the NV easy to start? In my mind the CDI unit improves reliability (chances of "dead stick") and improves start up by moderating the timing- I could be wrong? If the NV is reliable, easy to start and performs like a strong .46 I think it may be the one for me.

Tied myself in knots- a .46 glow, the NV, an OS .55ax, the evo 10 and that's without the brushless option!

Many thanks

the pope

When you throw the OS 55 into the mix that brings up another point . Its a great engine and if the plane is reasonably large or you want more power I would go with the OS 55 . Cheers the pope