Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

I have not run my engine yet. As soon as I got it, it went to my builder along with my H9 Corsair 60cc. I based my decision to buy the engine and have it modified, on videos Fred produced, conversations with both Fred and Ray as well as other available comments.

I'll be using the 15:1 ratio fuel that Ray recommends with Stihl Ultra oil that I use in my other gassers at a higher mixture ratio.

Blair K.

Hi Zeeb, wow thats a crazy amount of oil content!
25% more than factory spec.

I have to laugh now days when people new to me hear I had trouble with my engine and say " but its a Saito".

Cheers Blair

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

That's the mix Ray recommends as noted other places in this thread.....

SrTelemaster150

That's only an 20% increase in oil content.

15:1 = 1/16 = .063 or 6%

20:1 = 1/21 = .048 or 5%

6/5 = 1.2

A side from that bit of nitpicking, why would you want to adhere to Saito's recommendation when they clearly are having siesure problems?

The vast majority of "gas" engines that were designed as such from the start have roller & needle bearing on the crank & wrist pin. That's why they can be run at 32 or even 50:1 fuel/oil ratios.

Blair K.

Um ...yeah kind of a loose term there, my book says 20-1 oil content, 15 parts fuel instead of 20 is a 25% shift in the ratio numbers.

To be honest I really dont care, I think the point was totally missed, it was more about the top end engine aimed at "The Experienced Modeller" that cant be operated at the recommended oil content and without a bunch of mods or your model will fall out of the sky.

I had gas flyers telling me 20-1 was way too much oil and Saito are wrong !

Funny now I think about it.

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Here's a teaser for the folks who want to put an FG84 in the H9 Corsair 60cc but Horizon claims it won't fit despite the fact that Pete Goldsmith is flying one in his demo airplane....

Blair K.

Yep they told me the FG33R3 wouldn't fit in the H9 30cc P-47 as well, suggested I use the 40cc evolution and yet here it is in mine...

Blair K.

I was recently contacted by a random stranger in Australia asking why his FG33R3 was seizing up, he ran it in and tuned it exactly inline with Saitos owners manual and yet after many hours of fault finding and changing out sparks that dam cylinder number 2 is cold and number one cylinder is hotter than a very hot thing ��

I preceeded to tell this poor guy that he has bought a 1300 $ premium Saito engine and its quite normal for them to be like this.

Hes not so happy that it seized after just a few flights.

Come on Saito management, you are a joke.

SrTelemaster150

I wonder if they hired some General Motors engineers?

I'm still concerned that their ill prepared headlong rush into gas engines will be their demise.

Blair K.

Its truly ridiculous, if I owned a company that produced a product that was marketed as being a premium model engine id be addressing this issue quick smart.

2 days of in house NC machining and some testing and id have a bronze bush in those rods and a billet machined manifold ready to go.


If every person who buys an FG radial takes it to their club with 250 members like mine and they see how much crap its owner goes through, man that's bad for business.

After my second trip to the field without actually flying the dam thing a random heavy model inspector and jet certifier walked up and said "like you I had 5 or 6 Saito nitro four strokes but I also bought a Saito FG gasser and it just never ran right."

The fact people in the real world are having trouble with these things is reason enough to address the issue especially if those operators have 5 other Saitos and Saito management haven't heard a peep about their other engines.

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

My guess is there is a gap between Prod. Mgmt/R&D and Exec leadership. If the folks at the top were aware of the design flaws, failure rates and resultant market implications, they would take their lumps and address the issues. Culturally, it is very difficult to own up to fundamental engineering mistakes for released products (FG-84R3, FG-33R3), while at the same time, easier to incorporate outside ideas into new products (FG-60R3, FG-19R3). In fact, in some instances, it could be career limiting.

Given Saito is clearly continuing to invest in the small gas radial product line, they perceive there to be a market. Sooner or later, these issue will get escalated beyond the current levels which continue to dismiss the issues as "operator errors" or "non-issues".

Hopefully with Horizon's help, it'll be sooner.

Cheers

Blair K.

Hey Mark, FG 19 R3 ??? I Googled it but nothing to find, tell me what you know??

Cheers Blair

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

http://youtu.be/qw3NNZM7Qi4

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

http://www.saito-mfg.com/english/top...%20rev%20.html

Blair K.

Thanks mate, went and had a look, asked a couple of straight up questions too.

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

I'm super partial to IMAA class models, but gotta say, this incredibly tiny gas radial (FG-19R3) is intriguing! And I thought the 33R3 had small pistons!

Blair K.

Hey guys im currently doing a batch of custom billet machined inlet manifolds for Saito FG33R3.

If you have one of these radial engines and would like to be rid of 3 different cylinder temps and the nasty flat spot in the midrange let me know .

Can customize for individual needs if need be, obviously unfinished in the photos

TomH

My Feedback: (4)

Hey Blair I will keep it mind, might cost more to ship it to me. I'm on the list for the new 60R3 due in the first of Dec. so im interested in seeing what was done to 60R3, I emailed Ray and he said it was based on his work. he wont be available until the first week in December . I was interested in his opinion on this. Hope I have not made a mistake, because I also ordered the Keleo ring for it. What is estimated cost of the parts you are making. I know when I tried to ask on the forum about the number of units out there, it was no comments. Marksp comments are true, but if it was a car manufacturer it would be all over the news with numbers of affected product. they really need to put a program in place to make it right or it could be terrible PR for Saito. there is just not much chatter on this which makes me wonder just how many of these engines have been sold.

Blair K.

Hi Tom, the units are fairly small so shipping would be reasonable.

I started this batch of inlets because a flyer close to me here in Australia has had a FG33R3 failure on his second flight, he has had the same issues as everyone else, flat spots, radical differences in cylinder temps making it hard to tune, I dont like tooling up for 1 of's so I made a few but there is still a bit of time in making them.

I dont know how many Saito gas radials are out there but my experiences are that the owners are not aware of the overall engine issues and assume its just their engine.

I was approached by a father and son team two weeks ago with a FA 450 nitro radial that had been through many owners but never mounted in a plane because they all believed it to have mechanical issues due to its radically different temps, they had even moved the cam timing position trying to fix it.

you can imagine their shock when I told them what the issue is.

If you have an engine failure Saito will likely blame your keleo exhaust, I argued this point with them (saito)as I have custom exhausts on all my planes and none of those models are falling out of the sky.
Hand made live exhausts on my Saito nitro powered P -40 , hundreds of flights with no issues


Finished units as of this afternoon.

Blair K.

Hi Tom if you have the back off your FG60R3 perhaps a few photos would be good for those looking to see if the issues have really been sorted.

The pic below is from a local guys fg33r3, fully ran in on bench at correct oil content on correct setting, it seized on its second flight.
my engine had an exhaust valve stick open on its third flight and looked similar inside the tappet cover.

pacoflyer

My Feedback: (23)

BK,
Thanks for this….great info on this continuing "Saito Saga."
I remain in total disbelief that Saito has not yet stepped up to address this with any semblance of integrity
A good friend has a new 450 that presents many of the issues that have been mentioned here. Horizon has pretty much turned their back on him after charging him close to $200 for fixes that resolved nothing. My sense is that your mods are just what the Dr ordered. I'll pass this along to him….
Good flying,
paul

Blair K.

Happy to help Paul, I had Saito tell me that their radial FG33R3 had been excepted all over the world without such bitter comments as mine, then I found this forum and realized what a crock it is.

One member some pages back had a pair of them in a Caterlina and had both engines seize, at different times obviously but its not right at all.

As ive said before, $1300 engines should not fall out of the sky!

Cheers Blair

TomH

My Feedback: (4)

BK, you will be the first one, then Ray will be the second one I send pics to. The only reason they will want to blame Keleo ring exhaust is because their's is not ready. Don't want to start a war here, but I would bet money you would never see this from O.S. They better hope O.S. Does not see this and decide they want a 3cyl. Radial. I own my own business and distribute equipment for a lot of manufacturers and this would never be allowed to happen, this just blows me away. They will let people struggle with a defect. How do you produce a "new & improved" model, and ignore the other two engines. Then the rc community comes up with the "fix", really sad. Please tell me why I have one reserved.
t|

Blair K.

Head in the sand approach.....email from Saito Japan a few months ago:

Dear Mr. Blair K,

We received your letter about the FG-33R3. We find it regrettable.
The FG-33R3 is popular engine which has been accepted all over the world.
Therefore, this is the first time to receive such bitter comments like this.

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

Looks great Blair!

Cheers