Can you run synthetic 2 stroke oil designed for powered water craft in your DA 100?
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Can you run synthetic 2 stroke oil designed for powered water craft in your DA 100?
I bought a gallon of Quicksilver Synthetic two stroke oil from mercury marine on the cheap for $33 a gallon to my door and was wondering if it was a brilliant move or a blunder? It is recommended for all 2 stroke personal watercraft engines and has all the same ratings as klotz, motul and many others! I don't know if it is 20w or not, but if it is recommended by mercury that's going to have to be good enough for me until I learn otherwise! I had a couple of cases of Mobile 1 2t motorcycle oil I used for years until recently running out and then bought a couple pints of Klotz and couldn't tell a bit of difference between the two! With the economy not doing so hot, we are all trying to save a dollar here and there and is a motorcycle or a Jet Ski engine closer to a RC airplane engine, or are they pretty much the same thing using just about the same synthetic oil?
Last edited by kurt2022; 02-15-2014 at 01:08 AM.
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I know they are water cooled, but is there really any difference in viscosity between marine and motorcycle 2 stroke oils and what are they? This oil is recommended for "all" watercraft by mercury and watercraft, even though they are water cooled, do get HOT, especially when inlet water flow is disturbed or blocked! Many different brands of synthetic two stroke oil say they are rated for "ALL" 2 stroke engines and that being the case, what are the "real" differences between watercraft and motorcycle synthetic oil?
Last edited by kurt2022; 02-15-2014 at 07:43 AM.
#5
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I know they are water cooled, but is there really any difference in viscosity between marine and motorcycle 2 stroke oils and what are they? This oil is recommended for "all" watercraft by mercury and watercraft, even though they are water cooled, do get HOT, especially when inlet water flow is disturbed or blocked! Many different brands of synthetic two stroke oil say they are rated for "ALL" 2 stroke engines and that being the case, what are the "real" differences between watercraft and motorcycle synthetic oil?
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kurt2022
You seem to want to answer your own question.
The simple answer is they are different. Lots of modelers over the years have reported using marine oil with no problems.
Most of us find that the cost of Stilh Ultra or Redline is worth the piece of mind.
My vote is blunder.
.02
You seem to want to answer your own question.
The simple answer is they are different. Lots of modelers over the years have reported using marine oil with no problems.
Most of us find that the cost of Stilh Ultra or Redline is worth the piece of mind.
My vote is blunder.
.02
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I bought a gallon of Quicksilver Synthetic two stroke oil from mercury marine on the cheap for $33 a gallon to my door and was wondering if it was a brilliant move or a blunder? It is recommended for all 2 stroke personal watercraft engines and has all the same ratings as klotz, motul and many others! I don't know if it is 20w or not, but if it is recommended by mercury that's going to have to be good enough for me until I learn otherwise! I had a couple of cases of Mobile 1 2t motorcycle oil I used for years until recently running out and then bought a couple pints of Klotz and couldn't tell a bit of difference between the two! With the economy not doing so hot, we are all trying to save a dollar here and there and is a motorcycle or a Jet Ski engine closer to a RC airplane engine, or are they pretty much the same thing using just about the same synthetic oil?
#10
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It would bet any you could not tell any difference in performance, that motor will be happy with any two cycle oil you feed it when provided the correct ratio. Some guys are whiney about oil, the ones who mix it too rich in the first place then complain about the performance, I would pick a brand and stick with it. That quicksilver is good quality I wouldn't think twice about using it.
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I have been a small engine mechanic and an outboard mechanic for 30+ years, and I can tell you, you will have problems with using water cooled oil in an air cooled engine. The w/c oil cannot stand the heat!!!
#13
Here's the whole reason for this coming up in the first place: he wants to do it "on the cheap".
Just another cheapie looking for something for nothing. So typical. Why not use what your engine was designed to use? Answer: because it was not available "on the cheap" and he believes that this stuff was.
If you actually check the specs and performance abilities of the marine and air cooled two stroke engine oils where you find a completed technical presentation of the two, you will learn immediately that unless you use what is dsigned to be compatable, over the long run, you will have a problem. Maybe even sooner.
Then you'll quickly see how well your "on the cheap" worked out.
The operating environments and requirements for the marine engine and the aircraft engine are entirely different. That's why the oils are different.
Would you just stick any old available spark plug into your engine because it was available "on the cheap" or use the appropriate heat range plug?
Best of luck.
Just another cheapie looking for something for nothing. So typical. Why not use what your engine was designed to use? Answer: because it was not available "on the cheap" and he believes that this stuff was.
If you actually check the specs and performance abilities of the marine and air cooled two stroke engine oils where you find a completed technical presentation of the two, you will learn immediately that unless you use what is dsigned to be compatable, over the long run, you will have a problem. Maybe even sooner.
Then you'll quickly see how well your "on the cheap" worked out.
The operating environments and requirements for the marine engine and the aircraft engine are entirely different. That's why the oils are different.
Would you just stick any old available spark plug into your engine because it was available "on the cheap" or use the appropriate heat range plug?
Best of luck.
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Back in the 50 when I was an apprentice aircraft mechanic, the oil was SAE 60, 80, and 100 weight. Back then there was no HD oil, just straight mineral oil, so your car would use, on an average #30 weight oil. if you used the 60 oil in your car, it would never turn over in the winter. another point was, the oil was so thick, the oil ring couldn't scrape it off the cyl walls fast enough. The chief mechanic would put the used aircraft oil in his British Vanguard. When he drove away, you couldn't see the car for smoke. Needless to say, I didn't stay at that airport for long.
#15
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2 and 4 stroke oils DESIGNED for air-cooled engines are engineered to protect the engine under a wide range of temperatures - low to high. Oils intended for water-cooled engines are engineered to perform under a much narrower temperature range. Marine two stroke oils are NOT designed to perform well when an engine is operated outside the normal operating range of a water-cooled engine. The same is true for air-cooled 4 strokes (Harley's and old VWs).
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http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm I learned quite a bit about "API" air cooled 2 stroke, along with their "NMMA-TCW3" water cooled 2 stroke ratings and that PWC watercraft use a different ratings outfit all together "JASCO" from Japan, and to rate a synthetic oil with BOTH rating outfits would be very expensive, as much as $75,000 dollars each! According to this report you could drop in "most" air cooled synthetic, API rated 2 stroke oil in a personal watercraft without a problem and the same with a jasco rated synthetic oil in an air cooled engine "without a glitch"! Conventional oil seems to be a different story all together! Could the SAME synthetic 20w 2 stroke oil be in BOTH air cooled and water cooled engines with the ONLY difference being that one is "rated" for water cooled usage in (Japan/Europe) standards and the other air cooled usage by API standards in the US??? The manufactures are probably the only ones" that "really" know the "truth" on "the mix" and to say Sea-Doo isn't just as worried about thermal breakdown of oil due to overheating and improper flushing, as DA is is ludicris! Just go out and watch a young kid abuse a PWC for a little while! Water flow can be restricted just as fast as airflow can.
I've got an old extra 260 with a evolution 45 on it to use as a guinea pig !
I've got an old extra 260 with a evolution 45 on it to use as a guinea pig !
Last edited by kurt2022; 02-16-2014 at 10:44 AM.
#17
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So long as you run an adaquate amount of oil it will work. It may leave more carbon deposits but it will work..
I have a 123cc Chainsaw pulling a 44" long .404 Skip chisel that came form the Pacific Northwest clipping big timber so I can assure you it has worked harder than any of our r/c engines ever have..
Here is what is recomended for oil as labeled under the airfilter cover...
I have a 123cc Chainsaw pulling a 44" long .404 Skip chisel that came form the Pacific Northwest clipping big timber so I can assure you it has worked harder than any of our r/c engines ever have..
Here is what is recomended for oil as labeled under the airfilter cover...
Last edited by TheRickster; 02-16-2014 at 05:51 AM.
#20
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Ok, I resisted as long as I could. Your engine will probably be ok for a while, but oil for water cooled engines should not be used in air cooled engines. Different temperatures and different formulations. It's all been studied and documented before.
AV8TOR
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I know they are water cooled, but is there really any difference in viscosity between marine and motorcycle 2 stroke oils and what are they?
My engine guy has a term for folks who use the wrong oil, or Amsoil at 100:1 : Customers!
#22
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Here's another question for you, that should rattle some cages.
I have a gallon of 93 octane mixed for my DLE-20 with KLOTZ, ratio I believe is 32:1.
Will not be using it as DLE is in for repairs, thus am thinking about burning it in my TWO CYCLE snow thrower. Ratio for the snow thrower is usually mixed at 40:1 or 50:1 .
Think the DLE mixed fuel will work ? Keep in mind that it is over 20 years old and has not failed me yet. Yes, I fully realize that I have gotten my monies worth out of it.
I have a gallon of 93 octane mixed for my DLE-20 with KLOTZ, ratio I believe is 32:1.
Will not be using it as DLE is in for repairs, thus am thinking about burning it in my TWO CYCLE snow thrower. Ratio for the snow thrower is usually mixed at 40:1 or 50:1 .
Think the DLE mixed fuel will work ? Keep in mind that it is over 20 years old and has not failed me yet. Yes, I fully realize that I have gotten my monies worth out of it.
#23
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Once got suckered into buying a 50 to 1 all in one oil mix, does it for all two-stroke engines, chainsaws ob motors etc. Long and short of it I used it in a trolling motor, the deposits looked like curdled cheese!
I suggest you sell your gallon and find the proper oil, much cheaper.
I suggest you sell your gallon and find the proper oil, much cheaper.
#24
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Like you I one of those old snow blowers ...... small 2 stroke Techumseh engine and well over 20 years old. Mine has burned every bit of left over weed eater, airplane and chainsaw fuel I have had laying around for all those years and is still going strong as ever! Fuel ratios were from probably 16:1 to 50:1, synthetic and petroleum oils. I think it even has the original spark plug but can't remember ..... maybe I changed it 10 years ago? Like this old blower, the one before it was over 10 years old but lost it in the divorce!
My vote .... if it still smells fresh, burn the left over fuel!
My vote .... if it still smells fresh, burn the left over fuel!
#25
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Like you I one of those old snow blowers ...... small 2 stroke Techumseh engine and well over 20 years old. Mine has burned every bit of left over weed eater, airplane and chainsaw fuel I have had laying around for all those years and is still going strong as ever! Fuel ratios were from probably 16:1 to 50:1, synthetic and petroleum oils. I think it even has the original spark plug but can't remember ..... maybe I changed it 10 years ago? Like this old blower, the one before it was over 10 years old but lost it in the divorce!
My vote .... if it still smells fresh, burn the left over fuel!
My vote .... if it still smells fresh, burn the left over fuel!