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Can you run synthetic 2 stroke oil designed for powered water craft in your DA 100?

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Old 02-15-2014, 12:53 AM
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kurt2022
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Default Can you run synthetic 2 stroke oil designed for powered water craft in your DA 100?

I bought a gallon of Quicksilver Synthetic two stroke oil from mercury marine on the cheap for $33 a gallon to my door and was wondering if it was a brilliant move or a blunder? It is recommended for all 2 stroke personal watercraft engines and has all the same ratings as klotz, motul and many others! I don't know if it is 20w or not, but if it is recommended by mercury that's going to have to be good enough for me until I learn otherwise! I had a couple of cases of Mobile 1 2t motorcycle oil I used for years until recently running out and then bought a couple pints of Klotz and couldn't tell a bit of difference between the two! With the economy not doing so hot, we are all trying to save a dollar here and there and is a motorcycle or a Jet Ski engine closer to a RC airplane engine, or are they pretty much the same thing using just about the same synthetic oil?
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:43 AM
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Most oil for water cooled engines is a different make than for air cooled. Air cooled engines run as hotter than water cooled.
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:57 AM
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Is your DA liquid cooled?
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:18 AM
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kurt2022
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I know they are water cooled, but is there really any difference in viscosity between marine and motorcycle 2 stroke oils and what are they? This oil is recommended for "all" watercraft by mercury and watercraft, even though they are water cooled, do get HOT, especially when inlet water flow is disturbed or blocked! Many different brands of synthetic two stroke oil say they are rated for "ALL" 2 stroke engines and that being the case, what are the "real" differences between watercraft and motorcycle synthetic oil?

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Old 02-15-2014, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt2022 View Post
I know they are water cooled, but is there really any difference in viscosity between marine and motorcycle 2 stroke oils and what are they? This oil is recommended for "all" watercraft by mercury and watercraft, even though they are water cooled, do get HOT, especially when inlet water flow is disturbed or blocked! Many different brands of synthetic two stroke oil say they are rated for "ALL" 2 stroke engines and that being the case, what are the "real" differences between watercraft and motorcycle synthetic oil?
Yes there is a difference between air cooled and water cooled two stroke oils. Can't remember the API numbers but it was always a hassle when I was using Pennzoil, you had to find the air cooled stuff and that was pretty scarce while the liquid cooled stuff is everywhere including the likes of WallyWorld.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:19 AM
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Back about a 100 yrs ago when I worked for a Merc dealer, the bottle said "not to be used for chainsaws" Back then, it was made by Quaker State for Quicksilver.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:24 AM
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Why use marine oil? If you can afford this hobby, get the right oil for a air cooled engine. Period!
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:50 AM
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kurt2022

You seem to want to answer your own question.

The simple answer is they are different. Lots of modelers over the years have reported using marine oil with no problems.

Most of us find that the cost of Stilh Ultra or Redline is worth the piece of mind.

My vote is blunder.

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Old 02-15-2014, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt2022 View Post
I bought a gallon of Quicksilver Synthetic two stroke oil from mercury marine on the cheap for $33 a gallon to my door and was wondering if it was a brilliant move or a blunder? It is recommended for all 2 stroke personal watercraft engines and has all the same ratings as klotz, motul and many others! I don't know if it is 20w or not, but if it is recommended by mercury that's going to have to be good enough for me until I learn otherwise! I had a couple of cases of Mobile 1 2t motorcycle oil I used for years until recently running out and then bought a couple pints of Klotz and couldn't tell a bit of difference between the two! With the economy not doing so hot, we are all trying to save a dollar here and there and is a motorcycle or a Jet Ski engine closer to a RC airplane engine, or are they pretty much the same thing using just about the same synthetic oil?
If you think $33 is cheap compaired to $3-$4 for a quart of aircooled, then you made a fantastic deal. Opinions and oil, everones got one. Use your best judgment.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:06 AM
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It would bet any you could not tell any difference in performance, that motor will be happy with any two cycle oil you feed it when provided the correct ratio. Some guys are whiney about oil, the ones who mix it too rich in the first place then complain about the performance, I would pick a brand and stick with it. That quicksilver is good quality I wouldn't think twice about using it.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:14 AM
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Quicksilver is just 20 grade oil with addatives for cleaning. The 2 strokes have the cleaners as well as addatives to handle the higher heat, synthetics and such.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:58 AM
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I have been a small engine mechanic and an outboard mechanic for 30+ years, and I can tell you, you will have problems with using water cooled oil in an air cooled engine. The w/c oil cannot stand the heat!!!
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:54 AM
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Here's the whole reason for this coming up in the first place: he wants to do it "on the cheap".

Just another cheapie looking for something for nothing. So typical. Why not use what your engine was designed to use? Answer: because it was not available "on the cheap" and he believes that this stuff was.

If you actually check the specs and performance abilities of the marine and air cooled two stroke engine oils where you find a completed technical presentation of the two, you will learn immediately that unless you use what is dsigned to be compatable, over the long run, you will have a problem. Maybe even sooner.

Then you'll quickly see how well your "on the cheap" worked out.

The operating environments and requirements for the marine engine and the aircraft engine are entirely different. That's why the oils are different.

Would you just stick any old available spark plug into your engine because it was available "on the cheap" or use the appropriate heat range plug?

Best of luck.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:51 PM
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Back in the 50 when I was an apprentice aircraft mechanic, the oil was SAE 60, 80, and 100 weight. Back then there was no HD oil, just straight mineral oil, so your car would use, on an average #30 weight oil. if you used the 60 oil in your car, it would never turn over in the winter. another point was, the oil was so thick, the oil ring couldn't scrape it off the cyl walls fast enough. The chief mechanic would put the used aircraft oil in his British Vanguard. When he drove away, you couldn't see the car for smoke. Needless to say, I didn't stay at that airport for long.
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:26 PM
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2 and 4 stroke oils DESIGNED for air-cooled engines are engineered to protect the engine under a wide range of temperatures - low to high. Oils intended for water-cooled engines are engineered to perform under a much narrower temperature range. Marine two stroke oils are NOT designed to perform well when an engine is operated outside the normal operating range of a water-cooled engine. The same is true for air-cooled 4 strokes (Harley's and old VWs).
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:25 PM
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http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm I learned quite a bit about "API" air cooled 2 stroke, along with their "NMMA-TCW3" water cooled 2 stroke ratings and that PWC watercraft use a different ratings outfit all together "JASCO" from Japan, and to rate a synthetic oil with BOTH rating outfits would be very expensive, as much as $75,000 dollars each! According to this report you could drop in "most" air cooled synthetic, API rated 2 stroke oil in a personal watercraft without a problem and the same with a jasco rated synthetic oil in an air cooled engine "without a glitch"! Conventional oil seems to be a different story all together! Could the SAME synthetic 20w 2 stroke oil be in BOTH air cooled and water cooled engines with the ONLY difference being that one is "rated" for water cooled usage in (Japan/Europe) standards and the other air cooled usage by API standards in the US??? The manufactures are probably the only ones" that "really" know the "truth" on "the mix" and to say Sea-Doo isn't just as worried about thermal breakdown of oil due to overheating and improper flushing, as DA is is ludicris! Just go out and watch a young kid abuse a PWC for a little while! Water flow can be restricted just as fast as airflow can.
I've got an old extra 260 with a evolution 45 on it to use as a guinea pig !

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Old 02-15-2014, 08:37 PM
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So long as you run an adaquate amount of oil it will work. It may leave more carbon deposits but it will work..

I have a 123cc Chainsaw pulling a 44" long .404 Skip chisel that came form the Pacific Northwest clipping big timber so I can assure you it has worked harder than any of our r/c engines ever have..

Here is what is recomended for oil as labeled under the airfilter cover...

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Old 02-15-2014, 09:32 PM
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Does DA recommend that oil? No? Then why use it.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
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Does DA recommend that oil? No? Then why use it.
I heard that DA once upon a time recommended Amsoil at 100: 1 for that engine, so what do they know?
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyers View Post
I heard that DA once upon a time recommended Amsoil at 100: 1 for that engine, so what do they know?
I've often wondered about this one as well..... If I remember correctly, they used to also recommend Lawn Boy. Yucckkk!

Ok, I resisted as long as I could. Your engine will probably be ok for a while, but oil for water cooled engines should not be used in air cooled engines. Different temperatures and different formulations. It's all been studied and documented before.

AV8TOR
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
I know they are water cooled, but is there really any difference in viscosity between marine and motorcycle 2 stroke oils and what are they?
Just run it, and get back to us. Simple!


My engine guy has a term for folks who use the wrong oil, or Amsoil at 100:1 : Customers!
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:55 PM
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Here's another question for you, that should rattle some cages.

I have a gallon of 93 octane mixed for my DLE-20 with KLOTZ, ratio I believe is 32:1.

Will not be using it as DLE is in for repairs, thus am thinking about burning it in my TWO CYCLE snow thrower. Ratio for the snow thrower is usually mixed at 40:1 or 50:1 .

Think the DLE mixed fuel will work ? Keep in mind that it is over 20 years old and has not failed me yet. Yes, I fully realize that I have gotten my monies worth out of it.
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:05 PM
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Once got suckered into buying a 50 to 1 all in one oil mix, does it for all two-stroke engines, chainsaws ob motors etc. Long and short of it I used it in a trolling motor, the deposits looked like curdled cheese!

I suggest you sell your gallon and find the proper oil, much cheaper.
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:11 PM
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Like you I one of those old snow blowers ...... small 2 stroke Techumseh engine and well over 20 years old. Mine has burned every bit of left over weed eater, airplane and chainsaw fuel I have had laying around for all those years and is still going strong as ever! Fuel ratios were from probably 16:1 to 50:1, synthetic and petroleum oils. I think it even has the original spark plug but can't remember ..... maybe I changed it 10 years ago? Like this old blower, the one before it was over 10 years old but lost it in the divorce!

My vote .... if it still smells fresh, burn the left over fuel!
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckracer View Post
Like you I one of those old snow blowers ...... small 2 stroke Techumseh engine and well over 20 years old. Mine has burned every bit of left over weed eater, airplane and chainsaw fuel I have had laying around for all those years and is still going strong as ever! Fuel ratios were from probably 16:1 to 50:1, synthetic and petroleum oils. I think it even has the original spark plug but can't remember ..... maybe I changed it 10 years ago? Like this old blower, the one before it was over 10 years old but lost it in the divorce!

My vote .... if it still smells fresh, burn the left over fuel!
To be honest, I know that I have never even changed the spark plug in my two stroke snow thrower. Also, I have probably burned some gas / oil mixtures in it that would have destroyed some other engines. Can only assume that they made much better two stroke engines, 20 years ago.
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