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Newbie to gas, DLE 55 problem !

Old 03-15-2014, 11:28 AM
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185skywagon
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Default Newbie to gas, DLE 55 problem !

Hi Guys

First time poster and my first gas engine so very limited knowledge , please help !

My dle 55 is new, it was running ok on the ground but at full power it had a miss. In the air was running like crap above about 1/3rd throttle.
After some research I had the spark plug gapped from about .017 to .022 and this seemed to cure the full throttle miss. Ran pretty well on ground. I gapped the plug after some more reading to .024 to maybe help the mid crap but no noticeable change anywhere.
Last flight was ok, but missing and sounding rubbish from about 1/3rd throt to full but once at full was nice with only the occasional miss (every 20 seconds or so) but as the flight progresses it seems to get worse and worse until throttle response is so poor it wont even make full power or anything reliable above 1/3rd. Everything below 1/3rd has been fine with good idle and good response.

Set up a ground run to get a quick vid to show and its worse. I now wont take it into the air. From about 1/3rd up its doing this (and full now) even on the ground where previously it was ok !
Various adjustments of the valves show no change to this condition and is currently set at about factory settings, perhaps a tad richer (operating at sea level at around ISA conditions)

I'm out of ideas as to what this is, please help ! And it could be something so stupid and simple, I'm a proper newbie when it comes to gas engines !

Video below.

Running about 32:1, put about 2 gals through, plug at 0.024 gap, 4 cell nimh voltage around 5 on the ignition. (was running a 6.6 life thought this could be a prob but makes no difference with the nimh)

I really appreciate any advice or input !

Thanks !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co3UexNfIGc
Old 03-15-2014, 12:29 PM
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3136
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Are you useing the stock dle plug?
If so smash it with a hammer or give it to someone you don't like.
Buy a ngk cm6, you'll find them in numerous hobby shops.
Old 03-15-2014, 12:37 PM
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185skywagon
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Thanks for your response 3136 !

I'm running the ngk cm6 plug...
Old 03-15-2014, 12:45 PM
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Have a look here for help with tuning http://www.prme.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10

What battery do you have on the ignition?
Old 03-15-2014, 12:59 PM
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185skywagon
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Oh great theres some good stuff to go through there, thanks !

Have tried 6.6v life, 6v nimh and 4.8v nimh no difference between them !
Old 03-15-2014, 01:08 PM
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Is this a new engine? If so the ignition should be rated for voltages up to 8.4v, have a look, it should be on the ignition box.
Old 03-15-2014, 01:40 PM
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185skywagon
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Its a new engine as in it hasn't done much running (less than 10 liters through it) but age wise its probably well over a year old, maybe 2. Ignition working voltage 4.8-6.0v.
Old 03-15-2014, 01:55 PM
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Unless you were using a regulator the 6v nimh and 6.6v life batteries fully charged will be well over 6v and may have damaged the ignition.
See if you can borrow one from a club mate to test it, or put your ignition on someone elses plane to see if you get the same fault.
Old 03-15-2014, 04:27 PM
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corvettez06
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Originally Posted by 3136
Unless you were using a regulator the 6v nimh and 6.6v life batteries fully charged will be well over 6v and may have damaged the ignition.
You didn't damage the ignition. The older 4.8v-6.0v ignitions work fine with 6.0 v nimh and 6.6v LIFe. I have run many this way.
Old 03-15-2014, 07:54 PM
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p39
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Agreed on the plug. NGK CM6. Then turn the high needle in 1/8 turn
Old 03-15-2014, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 185skywagon
Hi Guys

First time poster and my first gas engine so very limited knowledge , please help !

My dle 55 is new, it was running ok on the ground but at full power it had a miss. In the air was running like crap above about 1/3rd throttle.
After some research I had the spark plug gapped from about .017 to .022 and this seemed to cure the full throttle miss. Ran pretty well on ground. I gapped the plug after some more reading to .024 to maybe help the mid crap but no noticeable change anywhere.
Last flight was ok, but missing and sounding rubbish from about 1/3rd throt to full but once at full was nice with only the occasional miss (every 20 seconds or so) but as the flight progresses it seems to get worse and worse until throttle response is so poor it wont even make full power or anything reliable above 1/3rd. Everything below 1/3rd has been fine with good idle and good response.

Set up a ground run to get a quick vid to show and its worse. I now wont take it into the air. From about 1/3rd up its doing this (and full now) even on the ground where previously it was ok !
Various adjustments of the valves show no change to this condition and is currently set at about factory settings, perhaps a tad richer (operating at sea level at around ISA conditions)

I'm out of ideas as to what this is, please help ! And it could be something so stupid and simple, I'm a proper newbie when it comes to gas engines !

Video below.

Running about 32:1, put about 2 gals through, plug at 0.024 gap, 4 cell nimh voltage around 5 on the ignition. (was running a 6.6 life thought this could be a prob but makes no difference with the nimh)

I really appreciate any advice or input !

Thanks !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co3UexNfIGc
Are you sure you have the spark plug cap all the way on the spark plug. When installed correctly the wire snap ring will be all the way past the hex of the spark plug.It goes on very hard at first and even harder to get off.Put some silicone grease on the spark plug and inside the boot,Not to much.
BCCHI
Old 03-15-2014, 09:30 PM
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kerwin50
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I run a 5 volt regulator on my older DLE's. There have been way too many IGN failures from a 5 cell nimh or a 2 s LiFe.
Like the above post make sure that cap is on all the way. Look for arcing inside the cap. The boot may already be damaged.
Tune that engine as well.
Old 03-16-2014, 04:14 AM
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Default Your DLE-55

I would like to see how your engine is set up when flying. Below is a picture of the backplate. If the airflow is disrupting the inlet to your carb, you may consider "normalizing" your diaphragm plate. Take some copper or fuel tubing and if needed enlarge the diaphragm vent to allow the tube to just protrude inside the the plate. Ensure the tube is flush with the inner side of the plate, do not go past the inner surface. Use a soldering gun and solder the tube in place. Cut the tube from the outer side of the plate to about a 1/4" and install some tygon tubing and run that tubing inside the fuselage.

What this does is eliminate the air and propellor impulses and allows the engine to take a tune better. Second thing to check is to ensure the boot on the spark plug is firmly seated on the plug. Also check the Phenolic spacer block between the engine and the carb and seeif it is cracked or loose. Always use a 4 cell battery 4.8 to 6 volts for ignition. More voltage does not mean more power to the engine. Run your fuel mix at 32:1. And for sure check your timing on the hall sensor. Most DLE engines use an RCEXL ignition. Go online and purchase a timing wheel and an ignition tester. And ensure the timing is correct. Factory needle settings will not work. You will need to adjust the carb for your atmospheric conditions. Hope this helps. If you get a chance upload some pictures of your setup.

Regards
Glenn Williams
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Old 03-16-2014, 04:21 AM
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Forgot, if you have a rear mounted carb you probably will not need to perform the above "normalizing" procedure. It is more conducive to side draft carbs. Upload a picture and give me the link to your video. and I will see if I can be of some assistance to your tuning efforts.Regards Glenn Williams
Old 03-16-2014, 05:26 AM
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Have you checked your plug? Is it white? Brown? Sopping wet? Sounds rich. I'm going on my third year running a 6.6 V Life without a reg. with no issues on the old style CDI.
Old 03-16-2014, 05:34 AM
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Definately sounds like an ignition related misfire. Great video description by the way.
Old 03-16-2014, 05:52 AM
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1) Don't run over 5V on the older DLE ignitions.
2) Adjust the high end needle to the rich side on the ground dropping RPM 300-400 from max.
3) Cowled engines build up pressure from the prop which is further increases in the air causing mixture changes. Perform the mod on the cover plate using a glow engine muffler pressure tap and solder in place and grind off the inside flush so it won't disturb the diaphragm. Run tubing into the fuse to a 35mm film canister that also has a vent hole drilled into the other side. This will give static air that is unaffected from the pressure of the cowling.
4) Do yourself a favor and drill some holes in the cowl so you don't have to pull the prop and cowl every time you want to tweak the needles.You can run brass tubing from the needles to the edge of the cowl to help guide the screwdriver right to the needle.



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Old 03-16-2014, 09:11 AM
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Sounds like a mis fire on YouTube. So check all electrics starting from the battery. Not wanting to sound cheeky but re read the ignition manual - you might have missed something.
Old 03-16-2014, 09:42 AM
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Load test that battery. Sounds like you could have a low voltage due to false peak on the ignition pack to me. Very common in the Spring and first flights of the new season. That pack should give 4 hours of 1/2 amp. If not, cycle it a couple of times.

In the mean time try an other pack.
Old 03-16-2014, 11:25 AM
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Good topic. Good advise too
Old 03-16-2014, 11:38 AM
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Read the sticky post at the top of this forum.
Old 03-16-2014, 01:07 PM
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3136
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Originally Posted by corvettez06
You didn't damage the ignition. The older 4.8v-6.0v ignitions work fine with 6.0 v nimh and 6.6v LIFe. I have run many this way.
So you can tell by watching that video that there is nothing wrong with the ignition?

These older ignitions don't like heat, you may get away with it, but may damage them with unnecessarily high voltage, causing them to get hot, if it's mounted in an area of little airflow this will make it worse too.
Here is the rcexl info for the older ignition
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...62922401,d.dGI

BTW I'm not saying the ignition is fried, just another thing to eliminate.
Kmyers has a good point, an old battery may not have the mah available to supply the ign at full throttle (that's in the manual too)

Last edited by 3136; 03-16-2014 at 01:36 PM.
Old 03-16-2014, 03:26 PM
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I've got a DLE-30 that use to do the same thing. I put a Bowman ring in it and changed the plug and it never missed again. Aframe2
Old 03-16-2014, 05:40 PM
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I just got my dle 35 running pretty well !! After about 2 weeks of pulling my hair out. "And I am the motor guy in our club"
1. Does it miss without the cowl on?? problem could be either heat or pressure related.
2. Tune the high speed first then the low. back them out to 1.5 turns start there. Cowl Off !!!
You have to first isolate what is happening. The only way to do that is to run the motor with ample airflow and see how it responds. Mine ran awesome for 30 minutes then sat for 2 weeks because the weather went to crap. Then wouldn't run..... ended up rebuilding the carb now she runs great without the cowl on..... but as soon as I put the cowl on it misses like crazy and I have to back out the needles to get it to run fair...... I am guessing a heat issue "with mine" could be the same with yours????
Old 03-17-2014, 02:01 AM
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185skywagon
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There's some great stuff here thanks very much for all the advise ! Hopefully in the next couple days I will be able to try some of these ideas.
I pulled all the switch setup / cables out and it turns out there is a 5v regulator in the system so the batts I was trying were only delivering 5v anyway. I didn't know it was in there I just through it was part of the opto kill system (was already in the frame when I got it) anyway its something to check out being faulty etc.
But again, thanks everyone I do appreciate your input. Ive got a good list of things to investigate / try in the next couple of days when I can get it out !

Are you sure you have the spark plug cap all the way on the spark plug. When installed correctly the wire snap ring will be all the way past the hex of the spark plug.It goes on very hard at first and even harder to get off.
Yip thanks definitely on proper, a right pain to get off

Forgot, if you have a rear mounted carb you probably will not need to perform the above "normalizing" procedure. It is more conducive to side draft carbs. Upload a picture and give me the link to your video. and I will see if I can be of some assistance to your tuning efforts.Regards Glenn Williams
Thanks Glenn for your advice, Ive got the rear mounted carb but this is worth investigating further. Ill see if I can get some pics next time I get it out to test.

Have you checked your plug? Is it white? Brown? Sopping wet? Sounds rich. I'm going on my third year running a 6.6 V Life without a reg. with no issues on the old style CDI.
Plug is a sandy brown color. That should be ok shouldn't it ?

1) Don't run over 5V on the older DLE ignitions.
2) Adjust the high end needle to the rich side on the ground dropping RPM 300-400 from max.
3) Cowled engines build up pressure from the prop which is further increases in the air causing mixture changes. Perform the mod on the cover plate using a glow engine muffler pressure tap and solder in place and grind off the inside flush so it won't disturb the diaphragm. Run tubing into the fuse to a 35mm film canister that also has a vent hole drilled into the other side. This will give static air that is unaffected from the pressure of the cowling.
4) Do yourself a favor and drill some holes in the cowl so you don't have to pull the prop and cowl every time you want to tweak the needles.You can run brass tubing from the needles to the edge of the cowl to help guide the screwdriver right to the needle.
Thanks, Ive got some holes in the cowl for adjusting the valves. Its quite a big cowl (compared to the engine) and I could understand a lot of pressure build up in there and although there is a lot of hole underneath for flow, perhaps I could open up some more...

I just got my dle 35 running pretty well !! After about 2 weeks of pulling my hair out. "And I am the motor guy in our club"
1. Does it miss without the cowl on?? problem could be either heat or pressure related.
2. Tune the high speed first then the low. back them out to 1.5 turns start there. Cowl Off !!!
You have to first isolate what is happening. The only way to do that is to run the motor with ample airflow and see how it responds. Mine ran awesome for 30 minutes then sat for 2 weeks because the weather went to crap. Then wouldn't run..... ended up rebuilding the carb now she runs great without the cowl on..... but as soon as I put the cowl on it misses like crazy and I have to back out the needles to get it to run fair...... I am guessing a heat issue "with mine" could be the same with yours????
Thanks, yea It does miss without the cowl but I must admid it does run better without it. It also runs better on the ground than in the air. Definitely an area to investigate further

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