Walbro carb replacement DLE20?
05-20-2014, 10:30 PM
#26
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Hi guys. Been awhile since I was on here. I got an email from Ernie asking me to join in the conversation about ignitions. As a rule I usually don't pass on my secrets about ignitions. I have been building them since the early 80's. What I now build is comparable to the CH ignition. I build my own timer boards for the Autoadvance feature. It has what I would call a generic 2 stroke advance curve with a new twist. My new boards are programmed with a feature called MSD or multi spark discharge which is effect until the rpms reach about 2300 rpm. It helps with rough idle and starting problems on practically every brand engine we tested including a DA-60. As far as I know, we are the only ignitions available with this feature. Ignitions are built by hand, one at a time and since I've retired from the work force late last year, I take my time building them and testing. Some specs:4.8 volt only!!RCExl style plug caps with full braided shielded wire. John
05-24-2014, 04:20 PM
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Hi Ernie.
I normally recommend a 4.8 voltage from whatever source you are using. In the case of LiPo batteries, I use a short plugin harness to the power lead of the ignition with the correct number of 1N4007 1000 volt diodes. Each diode drops the voltage by approximately .7 volts. Just do the math after determining your battery voltage and insert the correct number of diodes. An example for a 7.4 volt 2 cell LiPo would need 2 diodes to bring it back to a maximum of 5.5 volts for the ignition, a safe voltage for the internal chip on the Autoadvance board. You have to check battery voltage after a fresh charge to be safe. Just remember, a freshly charged nicad can have a 5.5 volt reading! Anything over 6 volts applied to an ignition is converted to heat.
John
I normally recommend a 4.8 voltage from whatever source you are using. In the case of LiPo batteries, I use a short plugin harness to the power lead of the ignition with the correct number of 1N4007 1000 volt diodes. Each diode drops the voltage by approximately .7 volts. Just do the math after determining your battery voltage and insert the correct number of diodes. An example for a 7.4 volt 2 cell LiPo would need 2 diodes to bring it back to a maximum of 5.5 volts for the ignition, a safe voltage for the internal chip on the Autoadvance board. You have to check battery voltage after a fresh charge to be safe. Just remember, a freshly charged nicad can have a 5.5 volt reading! Anything over 6 volts applied to an ignition is converted to heat.
John
05-25-2014, 09:48 PM
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Hi Ernie.
I normally recommend a 4.8 voltage from whatever source you are using. In the case of LiPo batteries, I use a short plugin harness to the power lead of the ignition with the correct number of 1N4007 1000 volt diodes. Each diode drops the voltage by approximately .7 volts. Just do the math after determining your battery voltage and insert the correct number of diodes. An example for a 7.4 volt 2 cell LiPo would need 2 diodes to bring it back to a maximum of 5.5 volts for the ignition, a safe voltage for the internal chip on the Autoadvance board. You have to check battery voltage after a fresh charge to be safe. Just remember, a freshly charged nicad can have a 5.5 volt reading! Anything over 6 volts applied to an ignition is converted to heat.
John
I normally recommend a 4.8 voltage from whatever source you are using. In the case of LiPo batteries, I use a short plugin harness to the power lead of the ignition with the correct number of 1N4007 1000 volt diodes. Each diode drops the voltage by approximately .7 volts. Just do the math after determining your battery voltage and insert the correct number of diodes. An example for a 7.4 volt 2 cell LiPo would need 2 diodes to bring it back to a maximum of 5.5 volts for the ignition, a safe voltage for the internal chip on the Autoadvance board. You have to check battery voltage after a fresh charge to be safe. Just remember, a freshly charged nicad can have a 5.5 volt reading! Anything over 6 volts applied to an ignition is converted to heat.
John
05-26-2014, 05:55 AM
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I don't have a website. I use my email for everything.
Almost all the ignitions that use the Autoadvance feature have digital pic chips and their max voltage level is 5.5 volts. In order to keep from frying those chips, the circuits use a small 7550 voltage regulator onboard. Any voltage over 5.5 is diverted to ground which makes heat in the process. While the actual ignition circuit could probably handle the extra voltage, the digital chips can't. It is more for conveinience to be able to use a higher voltage battery you have on hand. For the most part, there is very little to be gained by going higher in voltage if it is dissipated into heat.
Ive done some tests and found even a 6 volt battery will drop voltage faster than a 4.8 volt nicad or NiMH pack
John
Almost all the ignitions that use the Autoadvance feature have digital pic chips and their max voltage level is 5.5 volts. In order to keep from frying those chips, the circuits use a small 7550 voltage regulator onboard. Any voltage over 5.5 is diverted to ground which makes heat in the process. While the actual ignition circuit could probably handle the extra voltage, the digital chips can't. It is more for conveinience to be able to use a higher voltage battery you have on hand. For the most part, there is very little to be gained by going higher in voltage if it is dissipated into heat.
Ive done some tests and found even a 6 volt battery will drop voltage faster than a 4.8 volt nicad or NiMH pack
John
05-26-2014, 06:51 AM
#31
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John, regarding the voltage regulator dumping excess voltage to ground, you know this to be the case for the newest generation Rcexl and RcXl modules (rated for 8.4v), or are you speaking of your own modules? I ask, because I was under the impression that the new modules used no more amperage when operated over 4.8 volts? Not being well versed in electronics, that could easily be a mistake on my part. Would just like to verify, one way or the other?
05-26-2014, 09:11 AM
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I've repaired many RCExl ignitions and all had the regulator chip on the timer board. Usually, the ignition circuits have been of the same design. They are reliable at 4.8 volts, not so much at 8.4.
My circuit is designed for 4.8 only. No regulator.
John
My circuit is designed for 4.8 only. No regulator.
John
02-18-2015, 10:21 PM
#34
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Tman I just bought a 20 ra and the carb looks like the clone carbThe fuel inlet is a brass tube that is barbed.
I called Tower which wasn't much help over the phone. I sent them an email as well.
Waiting for a response.
I called Tower which wasn't much help over the phone. I sent them an email as well.
Waiting for a response.
Last edited by Bcolici; 02-18-2015 at 11:19 PM.
02-19-2015, 10:56 AM
#36
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Most DLE carbs work just fine and even a few, non Chinese genuine Walbro carbs had problems. Most WT series Walbro carbs used on RC engines are now made in China even if they come in a Genuine Walbro box and they come from a Genuine Walbro dealer. Again, not sure what the point of this "Genuine Walbro or not" post is.
02-19-2015, 08:28 PM
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The point is i want to get what I paid for.
Yeah im raising a stink over nothing(and I have a right to do so) if you say so.
The pic posted was from a thread i found posted by DLE.
With that said i got a reply from Tower and said i can be assured that it is not a knock off.
That's all I wanted to hear from them since that's where I purchased it from. if an issue does arise there won't be any problems.
That's all folks.
Smell ya later and happy flying
Yeah im raising a stink over nothing(and I have a right to do so) if you say so.
The pic posted was from a thread i found posted by DLE.
With that said i got a reply from Tower and said i can be assured that it is not a knock off.
That's all I wanted to hear from them since that's where I purchased it from. if an issue does arise there won't be any problems.
That's all folks.
Smell ya later and happy flying
02-19-2015, 08:45 PM
#38
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When that thread circulated about DLE vs DLE clone engines some time back, it was questioned whether DLE was the source. Some of the photos didn't match engine parts that DLE was providing through legitimate channels. In some ways it almost looked like the thread was created in an attempt to make a DLE engine look like the clone! I believe many people just accepted this came from the less than legitimate business practices that exist in China.
I guess my point when I see thread like this is this: I have never seen DLE state what kind of carb will be bolted on the back of their engines. It might be a Walbro clone or it might be a so called genuine Walbro. As stated before, when comparing some of the newer Walbro clones and so called genuine Walbro carbs, it almost looks like they are made in the same factory, they are that close to identical. So much so, I believe they are from the same factory.
I guess my point when I see thread like this is this: I have never seen DLE state what kind of carb will be bolted on the back of their engines. It might be a Walbro clone or it might be a so called genuine Walbro. As stated before, when comparing some of the newer Walbro clones and so called genuine Walbro carbs, it almost looks like they are made in the same factory, they are that close to identical. So much so, I believe they are from the same factory.
05-19-2015, 06:18 PM
#40
UP Date:
Yes I know it's been a year but here's what I found. I was simply running to much voltage in to them.(A123 with a diode to 6volts) I put in a second diode to bring them down to 5.4 and they both ran great. I flew around 10 to 12 flights at Joe Nall with my Bronco and they never skipped a beat.
The Ig.modual said 6 volt max, which is ok. However a doide reduces voltage by .5 or.6 and when I would charge the batts they would peak at 7.1 fresh of the charger. That's 6.6 v going in the ignition. (DUH dummy me)
Yes I know it's been a year but here's what I found. I was simply running to much voltage in to them.(A123 with a diode to 6volts) I put in a second diode to bring them down to 5.4 and they both ran great. I flew around 10 to 12 flights at Joe Nall with my Bronco and they never skipped a beat.
The Ig.modual said 6 volt max, which is ok. However a doide reduces voltage by .5 or.6 and when I would charge the batts they would peak at 7.1 fresh of the charger. That's 6.6 v going in the ignition. (DUH dummy me)
06-05-2015, 05:28 AM
#43
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Not sure what the point of this post is. They both say Walbro so they must be Walbro? The clones on current DLE engines say DLE. Early Walbro clones on DLE and a few other engines say Tillotson. Does the so called clone work OK? Have you even tried it yet or are you just raising a stink over nothing?
Most DLE carbs work just fine and even a few, non Chinese genuine Walbro carbs had problems. Most WT series Walbro carbs used on RC engines are now made in China even if they come in a Genuine Walbro box and they come from a Genuine Walbro dealer. Again, not sure what the point of this "Genuine Walbro or not" post is.
Most DLE carbs work just fine and even a few, non Chinese genuine Walbro carbs had problems. Most WT series Walbro carbs used on RC engines are now made in China even if they come in a Genuine Walbro box and they come from a Genuine Walbro dealer. Again, not sure what the point of this "Genuine Walbro or not" post is.
04-30-2017, 09:43 AM
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Thunderbolt47,
What size Bronco do you have?
I picked up a built but unflown 81" (Rich Uravitch design) with Saito 100's but would prefer to put gas engines and wondered if the DLE20 would work.
Thanks!
What size Bronco do you have?
I picked up a built but unflown 81" (Rich Uravitch design) with Saito 100's but would prefer to put gas engines and wondered if the DLE20 would work.
Thanks!
04-30-2017, 11:36 AM
#45
My Feedback: (19)
I have replaced a Saito 125 (similar size to 100) with a 20 with excellent results. About the only difference was that the spark plug sticks out more above the cylinder and you have to find a location for the ignition box. With DLE and several other engine brands now, you also have the choice between side and rear exhaust that could make a huge difference in an installation.
05-28-2017, 05:54 PM
#46
Junior Member
So Glad I Found this thread
Lets discuss the Rcexl #4 ignition for a bit and the problems it causes. First, there is nothing really wrong with this ignition module except for its strange advance curve and some call it a step more than a curve. Most ignitions have an advance curve that is all in at about 4000 - 4500 RPM. The dang #4 has a curve that as ahicks said, is pretty much just an all in step at about 2500 RPM, which is just above normal idle speed and this is the problem
. The #4 ignition runs just fine above about 3000 RPM or so. If you're having midrange or high speed problems with an engine, the #4 ignition isn't causing them unless it is bad. If you're having problems setting the low end, have problems getting a reliable idle speed or you have really strange problems getting the engine to settle back into an idle when you throttle it back or having problems maintaining a reliable idle speed in any way ..... the #4 is certainly contributing to if not causing the problem! AFAIK, the #4 was only supplied on DLE 20 engines. Within the last year, these engines now come with a more normal Rcexl ignition that can be identified by its lack of #4 sticker and a 4.8 - 8.4 voltage rating.
Unless a person is aware of the strange advance curve, the first reaction is to blame the carb when you experience any of the low speed problems listed above. While the carb could certainly be bad, in need of rebuild or adjustment, more times than not on the 20 it is that ignition curve causing the problems.
Here are some more symptoms .... have you tried to adjust the low speed mixture then the engine will just speed up for no reason? Or .... has it just slowed down for no reason, perhaps even dying in the process. .And we're talking maybe a 500 RPM or more changes here. Have you ever been on a landing approach, gave just a tiny bit of throttle to extend the glide and the dang thing just sped up so much it couldn't land .... and it wouldn't settle back to an idle so you end having to go around and try again. Or does the engine run completely different at the end of a flight than at the beginning? Yup, mostly caused by the good old #4 ignition. I should also mention that a less than precision throttle servo can also greatly contribute to the problem when this ignition is used.
Carb problems are usually consistent problems and not problems that require constant adjustments. If a carb is in good mechanical condition, is in a good state of rebuild with good rubber parts, has a good free moving and properly adjusted inlet metering needle, has high enough pop-off pressure, etc .... it should be consistent from one time to the next. Things that could cause inconsistency would be a worn or loose throttle shaft, throttle plate that is loose or just doesn't fit the bore well, dirt in metering passages, crummy cheap throttle servo, etc. Even removing or disconnecting the throttle return spring can contribute to the problem. Of course, rebuild the carbs when needed but worn throttle parts usually mean the carb is a throw away item.
Replace those DLE carbs if you must but don't expect miracles if you retain the #4 ignition boxes.
. The #4 ignition runs just fine above about 3000 RPM or so. If you're having midrange or high speed problems with an engine, the #4 ignition isn't causing them unless it is bad. If you're having problems setting the low end, have problems getting a reliable idle speed or you have really strange problems getting the engine to settle back into an idle when you throttle it back or having problems maintaining a reliable idle speed in any way ..... the #4 is certainly contributing to if not causing the problem! AFAIK, the #4 was only supplied on DLE 20 engines. Within the last year, these engines now come with a more normal Rcexl ignition that can be identified by its lack of #4 sticker and a 4.8 - 8.4 voltage rating.
Unless a person is aware of the strange advance curve, the first reaction is to blame the carb when you experience any of the low speed problems listed above. While the carb could certainly be bad, in need of rebuild or adjustment, more times than not on the 20 it is that ignition curve causing the problems.
Here are some more symptoms .... have you tried to adjust the low speed mixture then the engine will just speed up for no reason? Or .... has it just slowed down for no reason, perhaps even dying in the process. .And we're talking maybe a 500 RPM or more changes here. Have you ever been on a landing approach, gave just a tiny bit of throttle to extend the glide and the dang thing just sped up so much it couldn't land .... and it wouldn't settle back to an idle so you end having to go around and try again. Or does the engine run completely different at the end of a flight than at the beginning? Yup, mostly caused by the good old #4 ignition. I should also mention that a less than precision throttle servo can also greatly contribute to the problem when this ignition is used.
Carb problems are usually consistent problems and not problems that require constant adjustments. If a carb is in good mechanical condition, is in a good state of rebuild with good rubber parts, has a good free moving and properly adjusted inlet metering needle, has high enough pop-off pressure, etc .... it should be consistent from one time to the next. Things that could cause inconsistency would be a worn or loose throttle shaft, throttle plate that is loose or just doesn't fit the bore well, dirt in metering passages, crummy cheap throttle servo, etc. Even removing or disconnecting the throttle return spring can contribute to the problem. Of course, rebuild the carbs when needed but worn throttle parts usually mean the carb is a throw away item.
Replace those DLE carbs if you must but don't expect miracles if you retain the #4 ignition boxes.
I have been pulling my hair out for last 2 weeks with my first gasser a DLE 20 like new in box and as it turns out it has the #4 ignition. I have tweaked and tuned and taken has tank, carb, reed valves, added regulator, removed regulator, optokill, etc. The symptoms you described above are EXACTLY what I have been fighting on a plane I've been trying to maiden for 2 weeks now! It idles perfectly, then when I advance throttle it sputters and spits. When I get it wot it runs somewhat ok. Then when I chop throttle it goes down, up down and all over the place without throttle actually moving at all. I have ordered new ignition, carb, and optokill hoping to save money I've already spent on this engine.
06-08-2017, 07:51 AM
#48
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I don't believe that DLE still has carb issues in current production engines. While years ago, there were quite a few reports of carb and other problems, in recent years most of these issues have been deal with and no longer exist. NOTE: most of the info in this thread is several years old and even the engine in question two posts above appears to be an older production engine.
06-08-2017, 06:30 PM
#49
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While the post are old there have been a bunch of DLE (and other brands) engines on ebay used so the info is still good.
i wish there was a way to know which of the early carbs might be one with an issue.
So far the used engines I have purchased seem to be relatively free from issues (other then needing a good cleaning or maybe a connector replaced).
i wish there was a way to know which of the early carbs might be one with an issue.
So far the used engines I have purchased seem to be relatively free from issues (other then needing a good cleaning or maybe a connector replaced).
06-09-2017, 03:33 AM
#50
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Please notice Octopus RC is a dealer from China, selling/servicing engines of another brand, and very possibly trying to draw attention to a non existent problem to further his own agenda.
He offers no proof, other than this string, that there might be an issue. Note as well the majority of "problems" noted here are from those with little or no experience with gas...
It's my opinion Octopus RC is acting as a troll, with no intent on furthering the hobby in any way, shape, or form.
He offers no proof, other than this string, that there might be an issue. Note as well the majority of "problems" noted here are from those with little or no experience with gas...
It's my opinion Octopus RC is acting as a troll, with no intent on furthering the hobby in any way, shape, or form.
