Wire Evolution 15cc gas engine ignition cord to receiver?
07-07-2014, 01:09 PM
#1
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Wire Evolution 15cc gas engine ignition cord to receiver?
Would it be acceptable and safe to plug my ignition power cord from the Evolution 15cc gas engine to a "aux" slot in my receiver so I could turn the ignition on and off from my radio?
Would a optical kill switch serve this purpose?
If someone has a wiring diagram of the suggested way to wire the gas engine , receiver and battery could you please share it.
Also..., will a LiFe 1300mah battery be able to power both the engine ignition and servos on a Sig 4 Star 60 and have enough juice for about four 10-15 minutes flights, or should I use two batteries, one for the ignition and one for the servos?
Would a optical kill switch serve this purpose?
If someone has a wiring diagram of the suggested way to wire the gas engine , receiver and battery could you please share it.
Also..., will a LiFe 1300mah battery be able to power both the engine ignition and servos on a Sig 4 Star 60 and have enough juice for about four 10-15 minutes flights, or should I use two batteries, one for the ignition and one for the servos?
Last edited by jeff4912; 07-07-2014 at 01:39 PM.
07-07-2014, 01:24 PM
#2
Jeff, ask you radio manufacture what they think about such a setup. Here's what Futaba says about it. Dan.
Guidelines for setting up gasoline engine models. All ignition equipment, including an electronic kill switch, must be mounted at least 12", and preferably 14", away from all radio equipment, including throttle servos, etc. Ignition kill switch should always be on opposite side of fuselage from radio kill switch. All pushrods going to anything related to the engine must be non-conductive (just nonmetal clevises is not sufficient).
Guidelines for setting up gasoline engine models. All ignition equipment, including an electronic kill switch, must be mounted at least 12", and preferably 14", away from all radio equipment, including throttle servos, etc. Ignition kill switch should always be on opposite side of fuselage from radio kill switch. All pushrods going to anything related to the engine must be non-conductive (just nonmetal clevises is not sufficient).
07-07-2014, 04:11 PM
#4
The receiver servo connector cannot turn the ignition on or off directly, it can't handle that much power the servo signal channel can only provide maybe 40ma of current as a signal for the servos. The ignition module can draw upwards of 600ma when the engine is at WOT. Now then the servo power pins on the receiver can provide enough power for the ignition module though. What you have to do is use a optical switch like RCEXL makes with a separate battery pack for the ignition module. Now with that said, you can do like I do and use a Tech-Aero iBEC to use a single battery pack for both ignition and radio. the iBEC also serves as a power switch from the AUX channel to turn the ignition on or off as desired. The iBEC actually works pretty good.
Another old method is to use a small on/off switch coupled to a servo on the Aux channel and use the servo to flip the switch. You can still get the Zenoah ignition switch unit that does this too.
Another old method is to use a small on/off switch coupled to a servo on the Aux channel and use the servo to flip the switch. You can still get the Zenoah ignition switch unit that does this too.
07-07-2014, 04:35 PM
#5
The power cable from the ignition needs to plug into a fuselage mounted switch and the ignition battery in turn plugs into the switch. The ignition would be active when the fuselage switch is turned on.
To turn off the engine ignition via the transmitter you would install an Opto kill switch between the fuselage switch and the ignition. The receiver plug of the Opto switch would in turn be plugged into a spare receiver port ad you would program that port to a switch on the transmitter. When you turn the fuselage switch you will provide power to the Opto switch. When you turn the transmitter switch on the Opto switch turns on and provides power to the engine ignition. If you have trouble in the air(say the throttle linkage broke), you can turn transmitter switch and kill the engine and land the plane.
To turn off the engine ignition via the transmitter you would install an Opto kill switch between the fuselage switch and the ignition. The receiver plug of the Opto switch would in turn be plugged into a spare receiver port ad you would program that port to a switch on the transmitter. When you turn the fuselage switch you will provide power to the Opto switch. When you turn the transmitter switch on the Opto switch turns on and provides power to the engine ignition. If you have trouble in the air(say the throttle linkage broke), you can turn transmitter switch and kill the engine and land the plane.
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OraTab (04-08-2022)
07-07-2014, 05:27 PM
#6
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Jeff, as you can see there are options.
As mentioned, you can't plug the ignition module directly into the receiver. Geez, wait a minute! After thinking about it a second I guess you could!
It's just that most of us would prefer to have what is known as an optical (or opti/opto) switch installed between the ign. module and the receiver. This will let you turn the receiver on and off using the aux channel on your receiver. The level of safety gained by this move, as well as the convenience, WAY offset the cost of the switch (20 bucks).
If you were to plug that ign. module in directly, without the opti switch, you would not be able to turn it on and off from the transmitter. It would turn on when you turned the receiver on and stay on until the receiver was turned off. Functional, but lacking in safety.
OK, so what is that IBEC (ignition battery eliminator circuit) mentioned earlier? It serves the same purpose as an opti switch, but in addition to that, it has a feature that can supply a regulated 4.8 volts to your ign. module. Nice, because some modules don't care for anything over 4.8 volts, and those LiFe batteries you're getting ready to use are 6.6v. Thankfully, the Evo modules can handle the LiFe 6.6 pretty easily. The regulator isn't necessary. It's still a good switch though.
Re: the 1300mah LiFe. My guess would be yes. BUT, there are variables here too. I'm assuming an average 4 servo equipped sport plane with an Evo 15 up front. Hi torque digital servos can add considerable drain, as can stuff like elec. retracts? To know how YOUR setup is doing with YOUR battery powering it, the plan is to charge the battery up fully, then go put a flight or 2 on it and see what it takes to charge it back up? The rule of thumb is not to use more than half of the battery's capacity. So after a days worth of flying you don't want to see more than 650 mah put back in to fully charge it. You can play with the number of flights you put on it for a while to get a pretty good idea of what you are using per flight. Or take your charging equipment with you and charge it as required?
Finally, flyinwalenda's diagram shows 2 batteries in use with the Rcexl opti switch. There's option's there too. The Rcexl switch can be modified with 2 tiny drops of solder using the directions that come with it. If you aren't up for that, the battery lead and the receiver lead from the switch can be plugged into a "Y" harness with one leg of that plugged into the receiver to do the same thing - allowing you to get by on one battery.
And you thought this was going to be simple, right? Actually it is once you get your head wrapped around all of it. It's a big piece though, but thankfully it doesn't change much. -Al
As mentioned, you can't plug the ignition module directly into the receiver. Geez, wait a minute! After thinking about it a second I guess you could!
It's just that most of us would prefer to have what is known as an optical (or opti/opto) switch installed between the ign. module and the receiver. This will let you turn the receiver on and off using the aux channel on your receiver. The level of safety gained by this move, as well as the convenience, WAY offset the cost of the switch (20 bucks).
If you were to plug that ign. module in directly, without the opti switch, you would not be able to turn it on and off from the transmitter. It would turn on when you turned the receiver on and stay on until the receiver was turned off. Functional, but lacking in safety.
OK, so what is that IBEC (ignition battery eliminator circuit) mentioned earlier? It serves the same purpose as an opti switch, but in addition to that, it has a feature that can supply a regulated 4.8 volts to your ign. module. Nice, because some modules don't care for anything over 4.8 volts, and those LiFe batteries you're getting ready to use are 6.6v. Thankfully, the Evo modules can handle the LiFe 6.6 pretty easily. The regulator isn't necessary. It's still a good switch though.
Re: the 1300mah LiFe. My guess would be yes. BUT, there are variables here too. I'm assuming an average 4 servo equipped sport plane with an Evo 15 up front. Hi torque digital servos can add considerable drain, as can stuff like elec. retracts? To know how YOUR setup is doing with YOUR battery powering it, the plan is to charge the battery up fully, then go put a flight or 2 on it and see what it takes to charge it back up? The rule of thumb is not to use more than half of the battery's capacity. So after a days worth of flying you don't want to see more than 650 mah put back in to fully charge it. You can play with the number of flights you put on it for a while to get a pretty good idea of what you are using per flight. Or take your charging equipment with you and charge it as required?
Finally, flyinwalenda's diagram shows 2 batteries in use with the Rcexl opti switch. There's option's there too. The Rcexl switch can be modified with 2 tiny drops of solder using the directions that come with it. If you aren't up for that, the battery lead and the receiver lead from the switch can be plugged into a "Y" harness with one leg of that plugged into the receiver to do the same thing - allowing you to get by on one battery.
And you thought this was going to be simple, right? Actually it is once you get your head wrapped around all of it. It's a big piece though, but thankfully it doesn't change much. -Al
07-07-2014, 06:42 PM
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Thank you for all the information, the optical kill switch seems like a no brainer.
In this diagram, could I eliminate the BEC and just use a Y harness with a on/off switch between the Y and the battery to power the receiver and ignition?
Evolution Gas engines claim they do not need a regulator.
In this diagram, could I eliminate the BEC and just use a Y harness with a on/off switch between the Y and the battery to power the receiver and ignition?
Evolution Gas engines claim they do not need a regulator.
07-07-2014, 06:53 PM
#8
The BEC or IBEC as it is usually called helps to eliminate interference from the ignition system from getting into the radio system. Some people swear by them, and some condemn them; saying that you should always use a dedicated and physically separate power supply system for ignition. It seems more and more people however, are converting to using an IBEC with good results.
Now, to answer your question; can you just run the ignition directly off of the receiver battery without an IBEC? The answer is a guarded yes, if you are running a 2.4 gig radio system. Some people will have a heart attack at that statement, but I have been doing so as a test on one plane of mine for about a year now, with no glitches or problems. You surely want to do a thorough range test at varying throttle settings if you attempt this however. Do so at your own risk....
Also beware of voltage problems. Older ignition systems were made for 4.8 volts, and would usually tolerate 6 volts but no more than that. The newer systems coming out have a broader voltage range. Check yours to be sure.
AV8TOR
Now, to answer your question; can you just run the ignition directly off of the receiver battery without an IBEC? The answer is a guarded yes, if you are running a 2.4 gig radio system. Some people will have a heart attack at that statement, but I have been doing so as a test on one plane of mine for about a year now, with no glitches or problems. You surely want to do a thorough range test at varying throttle settings if you attempt this however. Do so at your own risk....
Also beware of voltage problems. Older ignition systems were made for 4.8 volts, and would usually tolerate 6 volts but no more than that. The newer systems coming out have a broader voltage range. Check yours to be sure.
AV8TOR
Last edited by av8tor1977; 07-07-2014 at 06:56 PM.
07-07-2014, 07:01 PM
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1.So would the IBEC take the place of an optical kill switch, and allow me to use one battery?
2.If I used two batteries, I take it I would use an optical kill switch for the ignition and would not need a IBEC since ignition and receiver are on different power supplies?
2.If I used two batteries, I take it I would use an optical kill switch for the ignition and would not need a IBEC since ignition and receiver are on different power supplies?
07-07-2014, 08:51 PM
#10
1.So would the IBEC take the place of an optical kill switch, and allow me to use one battery?
2.If I used two batteries, I take it I would use an optical kill switch for the ignition and would not need a IBEC since ignition and receiver are on different power supplies?
2.If I used two batteries, I take it I would use an optical kill switch for the ignition and would not need a IBEC since ignition and receiver are on different power supplies?
Jeff, the IBEC would mean there is no need for the opto switch. I honestly have read about more issues running an opto switch then an IBEC. The IBEC would be an easier install in your small airplane. Fiber optic cable can't have much less the 1/2 bend radius and still work, it is a glass strand after all. The IBEC would allow you to run everything off a single battery and is a less complicated install. The one I use and recommend is the Tech Aero unit, it is more then double the price of the RCEXL opto switch but if I were to go that route I would be buying a Smart Fly opto switch so with that in mind prices are comparable. On your airplane running the servos and ignition I would go with a minimum of 1600 mah. LiFe would be fine as the IBEC regulates down to 5.5V and just about any ignition is fine at that voltage.
07-08-2014, 03:38 AM
#12
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Jeff, to answer your question regarding the Y harness, it will work equally well in either place. To explain, the red and black (power) wires are the same, no matter what, anywhere in the flight pack. The white wire is the signal wire, so it's important that one be plugged in the the right place/channel.
The fact the red and black wires are the same throughout is the key here. It's the reason the Rcexl switch can be modded to run off just one lead? It doesn't care where it gets power, which means it could get power from the lead plugged into the receiver that's controlling it? That's basically what the mod in the directions that come with it does, eliminating the need for the "power" lead altogether.
Futaba sells a pretty neat "Y" harness that I like to keep things as tidy as possible when doing stuff like this. It's really not a Y, but a single plug that will accept 2 connectors. Go here for a pic.
http://www.rcplanet.com/Futaba_6_Hea...FQcSMwodeysAOQ
The fact the red and black wires are the same throughout is the key here. It's the reason the Rcexl switch can be modded to run off just one lead? It doesn't care where it gets power, which means it could get power from the lead plugged into the receiver that's controlling it? That's basically what the mod in the directions that come with it does, eliminating the need for the "power" lead altogether.
Futaba sells a pretty neat "Y" harness that I like to keep things as tidy as possible when doing stuff like this. It's really not a Y, but a single plug that will accept 2 connectors. Go here for a pic.
http://www.rcplanet.com/Futaba_6_Hea...FQcSMwodeysAOQ
07-08-2014, 09:39 AM
#15
I agree that both setups will work, the optical switch IMO is a more complex set up. The Tech Aero also has a fuse mounted LED that indicates when the ignition is getting voltage. Other then cost I personally do not see the advantage of the Optical switch over the IBEC. I actually see the disadvantage of a more complex install and having a fiber optic cable in a high vibration, dirty enviroment. For that reason I chose the IBEC for my own airplane. I know we have had this conversation before and concluded that either one will work, it's all user preference.
07-08-2014, 10:02 AM
#16
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OK, that's the second time you've mentioned a fiber optic cable. Please expand. Can't figure out what you're talking about?
BTW, the Rcexl switch has a remote LED that can be mounted wherever you want it as well.
Re: previous conversation, that's why I wasn't suggesting one over the other previously. Hadn't mentioned I'm using 5 Rcexl, and 1 Tech Aero with equal success.
-Al
BTW, the Rcexl switch has a remote LED that can be mounted wherever you want it as well.
Re: previous conversation, that's why I wasn't suggesting one over the other previously. Hadn't mentioned I'm using 5 Rcexl, and 1 Tech Aero with equal success.
-Al
07-08-2014, 12:19 PM
#17
Ok having not taken a good look at the RCEXL "opto" switch I was thinking it was going to be a true optical unit such as the Smart Fly unit. On the Smart Fly and some others there are two boards that are linked together with a run of fiber optic cable. When the TX board for any reason stopped transmitting down the cable the RX board shut off the voltage to the ignition. This design has no electrical connections from the RX to the ignition. In reality, it simply appears to be nothing more then an off/on solid state switch. We are back to either one will work. I guess in the end I just prefer to buy a product that is assembled and supported here in the US. Then again that's most likely the only part on my airplane that is US made LOL
07-08-2014, 01:35 PM
#18
I have the 10GX (Evo 10cc gasser) in the Hangar 9 Meridian and run (2) LIFe packs(one for ignition one for receiver) and the plane weighs in at the suggested weight and I'm using an Opto switch..
How small of a plane are we taking about here that needs a 15cc engine and can't spare a few ounces for another battery pack?
How small of a plane are we taking about here that needs a 15cc engine and can't spare a few ounces for another battery pack?
07-08-2014, 02:54 PM
#20
I have the 10GX (Evo 10cc gasser) in the Hangar 9 Meridian and run (2) LIFe packs(one for ignition one for receiver) and the plane weighs in at the suggested weight and I'm using an Opto switch..
How small of a plane are we taking about here that needs a 15cc engine and can't spare a few ounces for another battery pack?
How small of a plane are we taking about here that needs a 15cc engine and can't spare a few ounces for another battery pack?
07-08-2014, 03:03 PM
#21
Dan, if we were talking about 72 MHz here I would tend to agree with you. Trust me for the longest time I had no interest in an IBEC. Now having owned two airplanes now with them I can't see why I would ever want to have a separate ignition battery again. Unfortunately my current airplane breaks some of the tried and true rules. I have both RX batteries mounted 4" from the ignition module and am running an IBEC. My throttle servo is 3" from the carb. This is a 150cc Extra that gets flown quite a distance away and I have not had any issues. I feel comfortable doing this based on what I learned messing around with less then optimal configurations with a 50cc airplane last year.. I also have a Smart Fly Power Expander in this airplane for another layer of conductive isolation. My engine running range checks were over 200 ft with solid link.
07-08-2014, 06:17 PM
#22
My Feedback: (2)
I have the 10GX (Evo 10cc gasser) in the Hangar 9 Meridian and run (2) LIFe packs(one for ignition one for receiver) and the plane weighs in at the suggested weight and I'm using an Opto switch..
How small of a plane are we taking about here that needs a 15cc engine and can't spare a few ounces for another battery pack?
How small of a plane are we taking about here that needs a 15cc engine and can't spare a few ounces for another battery pack?
Speed - Good for you! If approached with an open mind a lot of this new thinking really does work fairly well. Prior to condemning an idea because you don't think it will work, or maybe because it didn't used to work, check it out! You may just learn something pretty useful.
07-09-2014, 01:40 AM
#23
It's not just the weight or room. Why mess with the hassle of buying, charging, and maintaining 2 batteries if you don't have to? Simplicity and ease of use always a factor!
Speed - Good for you! If approached with an open mind a lot of this new thinking really does work fairly well. Prior to condemning an idea because you don't think it will work, or maybe because it didn't used to work, check it out! You may just learn something pretty useful.
Speed - Good for you! If approached with an open mind a lot of this new thinking really does work fairly well. Prior to condemning an idea because you don't think it will work, or maybe because it didn't used to work, check it out! You may just learn something pretty useful.
Having ignition and receiver on the same battery can lead to problems. If the ignition fails it can draw down/short the battery very quickly and then you are in trouble with the receiver. Already had it happen but with a second battery for the receiver the plane landed safely,
07-09-2014, 03:17 AM
#24
My Feedback: (2)
flyinwalenda, the "condemning" comment was not directed at you. Sorry that wasn't more clear. I would wonder how often one would loose a battery in flight anymore though? Connections to/from it maybe (easy to make a good case for running parallel switches) , but loosing a battery in flight pretty rare in my book as long as we aren't talking about NiMh (those should be banned!). I'd be willing to roll the dice on that occurrence in exchange for the reasons already mentioned.
The condeming comment was directed more towards those sticking to a set of rules established out of necessity when radio equipment was nowhere near what it is today.
The condeming comment was directed more towards those sticking to a set of rules established out of necessity when radio equipment was nowhere near what it is today.
Last edited by ahicks; 07-09-2014 at 03:20 AM.
