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Saito FG-60R3

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Old 04-11-2016, 11:58 AM
  #601  
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Originally Posted by MDavis28 View Post
A fellow flier took a quick video of my P-47 with the FG-60 this past weekend. Thought I would share.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylt_7yfTzl0
How much time on your engine?
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MDavis28 View Post
A fellow flier took a quick video of my P-47 with the FG-60 this past weekend. Thought I would share.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylt_7yfTzl0
Great looking P-47 ...now I want one to go with my bubble canopy P-47. the sound is why we all bought the R3. Here in Co we can't get them to run with the cowl on and are crossing our fingers about the cylinders.
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by aquaskiman View Post
Great looking P-47 ...now I want one to go with my bubble canopy P-47. the sound is why we all bought the R3. Here in Co we can't get them to run with the cowl on and are crossing our fingers about the cylinders.
Because of the elevation?
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SWORDSN View Post
Because of the elevation?
Yes ...vapor lock 5400 ft and winter fuel
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:01 PM
  #605  
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Originally Posted by aquaskiman View Post
Great looking P-47 ...now I want one to go with my bubble canopy P-47. the sound is why we all bought the R3. Here in Co we can't get them to run with the cowl on and are crossing our fingers about the cylinders.
Hi George,
I'm at the same elevation and I installed the Morris carb conv. and I also bought 100LL fuel for this baby! I'm going to break her in soon 15 to 1 Amsoil!
Dan
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Old 04-12-2016, 07:57 AM
  #606  
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Swordsn, I have about 6.5 hrs on it. I have set up a throttle to throttle mix that allows me to fully close the throttle. This acts like a choke and draws fuel from the tank to the carb. It takes about 20 to 30 rotations of the prop to achieve this but doesn't take long at all. I also have telemetry that show my engine temp on the no.1 cylinder. After I hand turn the engine as described above I turn off the throttle to throttle mix and give it a slightly high idle and it will start on the first flip every time. I let the engine temp get up to 115*~120* before I advance the throttle at all.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:26 PM
  #607  
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How's everyone doing with the Walbro carb conversion?
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:41 AM
  #608  
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I am in a excellent position where I have access to aviation engineers who perform component failure analysis, metallurgical etc. I have provided several photos of the failed cylinder heads from this thread to a metallurgical engineering friend of mine at one of two firms that I deal with. My engineering friend is very interested in doing a component failure analysis on FG-60 failed heads. Unfortunately I do not have a failed cylinder head to send to my friend for him to do the failure analysis.

I suspect any owner of an FG-60 R3 that has had a cylinder head failure has sent the FG-60 back to HH for warranty repair? Unfortunately, I am a long way from being able to run and flight test my FG-60 R3.
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chorner View Post
How's everyone doing with the Walbro carb conversion?
I installed the carb and it was easier to tune, but I still had a vapor lock problem
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:15 AM
  #610  
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Originally Posted by ForcesR View Post
I am in a excellent position where I have access to aviation engineers who perform component failure analysis, metallurgical etc. I have provided several photos of the failed cylinder heads from this thread to a metallurgical engineering friend of mine at one of two firms that I deal with. My engineering friend is very interested in doing a component failure analysis on FG-60 failed heads. Unfortunately I do not have a failed cylinder head to send to my friend for him to do the failure analysis.

I suspect any owner of an FG-60 R3 that has had a cylinder head failure has sent the FG-60 back to HH for warranty repair? Unfortunately, I am a long way from being able to run and flight test my FG-60 R3.

Hope someone will send one.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:19 AM
  #611  
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Originally Posted by aquaskiman View Post
I installed the carb and it was easier to tune, but I still had a vapor lock problem
Thanks aquaskiman. Any performance differences? I'm sure having a choke is nice with the Walbro as well.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:02 AM
  #612  
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No it seemed to run about the same. It stayed in tune better. The choke is nice
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:23 PM
  #613  
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Just a thought... Is it possible that this engine could run better inverted? Instead of # 1 cylinder running so much leaner than the other 2, if inverted two cyls' run just a little leaner than the very bottom cyl

I am not that versed in engines but the thought intrigued me
Dan
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Old 04-16-2016, 06:50 AM
  #614  
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Deadstick, I ran mine inverted for a while, during the break in process, it ran fine, and I suspect it would work perfectly in a plane. I think some people have mounted them upside down in some planes. Only real problem is if you are using a Keleo exhaust, you will have the exhaust exiting at the top.. lol.

Can anyone tell me what parts will be required in the event of this catastrophe? I assume piston, rings, pushrods and tubes...what else? Or is this something that would require new bearings/bushings conrods etc?
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Old 04-16-2016, 11:06 AM
  #615  
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Originally Posted by cathurga View Post
Only real problem is if you are using a Keleo exhaust, you will have the exhaust exiting at the top.. lol.
FYI, Kelvin (keleo) will make up a custom ring to exit wherever you require. The ring on my DHC-2 Beaver exits at 7 o'clock like scale.
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Old 04-18-2016, 12:21 AM
  #616  
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Dear All,

I am new here and come from Poland, so please excuse language related mistakes.
I have beed reading this thread from the beginning and I have the same engine since couple of months. It has been bench tested now and run in por a period of around 3 hours in total with no bad symptoms yet.

If possible I would like to ask you on the baffling setups and the cowl inlet/outlet area ratios for the cases where you have met problems with the cylinder cracking.
I am just wondering if proper cooling is in any way related to the problems. It looks like sooner or later we will all end with the same story but maybe there will be something we will discover that allows us to minimize the risk.

Regards

Lukas
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:05 AM
  #617  
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Chuck Yeager, I built a baffle setup using the fake radial that comes with the Top Flite Giant P47 kit. I cut out the areas in front of the 3 cylinders of the Saito engine, then I made some balsa wood baffles that I glued in place that extend back behind the cylinders.

I installed 3 temperature gauges and a logging device that I bought from Eagletree Systems, its called the E-logger V4. I placed the sensors near the spot where the intake pipe goes into the cylinder.

I flew my P47 for the first time two days ago and when I landed I noticed that the top cylinder had a temperature of 305F, the 2nd cylinder was about 285F and the 3rd was about 285F as well. The temperature was 50F out when I was flying.

I have not tested it without my baffle setup yet.

I have nothing to reference to see if these temperatures are high or low.

Hope that helps.







Originally Posted by Chuck Yeager View Post
Dear All,

I am new here and come from Poland, so please excuse language related mistakes.
I have beed reading this thread from the beginning and I have the same engine since couple of months. It has been bench tested now and run in por a period of around 3 hours in total with no bad symptoms yet.

If possible I would like to ask you on the baffling setups and the cowl inlet/outlet area ratios for the cases where you have met problems with the cylinder cracking.
I am just wondering if proper cooling is in any way related to the problems. It looks like sooner or later we will all end with the same story but maybe there will be something we will discover that allows us to minimize the risk.

Regards

Lukas
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:24 AM
  #618  
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Flew my P47 Tarheel Hal with the FG-60R3 this weekend. Flew it 8 times for 8 minutes per flight. Its the hit of the field, everyone comments how awesome it sounds, especially at idle. I did a few low passes towards myself and you can actually hear the valves and rocker arms ticking as it soars by at about 100mph. Love it.

I tuned it so I have good transition between idle and full throttle, but full throttle runs a little bit rich. I can hear it hit a clean RPM then I can hear it burble a bit and lose RPM, so I chose to fly it at that setting.

About 95% of the time in the air I was flying at half throttle. Didn't notice much difference between half and full throttle. Half throttle is plenty of power to do scale maneuvers with.

Idle is solid, never had any issues with it idling low, even on final approach.

Temperatures on cylinder 1 never climbed above 305F, and the other two cylinders stayed below 285F throughout the entire flight.

I notice some spray coming out of one of the exhaust fittings to the Keleo ring so I'll probably take that fitting apart and use a little more red RTV this time.

No screws are loose.

If the engine didn't start after 5-7 flips, I'd open the throttle and use a fuel bulb to apply pressure into the vent line. This pushed fuel up into the carb. I'd close the carb and the engine would start after 1-2 flips.

Pretty happy! Now I'm praying I don't blow a cylinder off because that means deadstick and deadstick at my field is a challenge.

Heres some videos. Sorry the videos aren't the best, the camera man had a hard time finding the plane with my iPhone 6s!

Taxiing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaQKKi60Mn8

Landing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glXEPlhQeX0

Some passes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YRYo0XtKFI

Thanks

Last edited by Timbers; 04-18-2016 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:04 PM
  #619  
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Default Temp readings and spark plug caps

Hi guys! I moved my temp sensor to the back of cylinder 1 to see what temps I get. This was the warmest day I have flown it as of yet. On ground after first start it quickly warmed up to 120*. Normally it takes a min or 2. After 3 min of flight with 50%~75% throttle doing just banked turns and rolls the temps climbed to just over 300*. As I did large loops and Cuban 8's it eventually maxed out at 377* once it hit that I throttled back to 30% and flew a few circuits and set er down. Once bac to the pits it was still around 260*F. So I am going to work on some baffling. But since I have started to work on it I did notice that my no.1 spark plug cap came off rather easy so I decided to bend the middle of the clips inward just slightly. See pic. After doing this it holds on very well.
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Old 04-19-2016, 04:23 AM
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Mdavis28, I'm having the same results that you are. A few posts back I posted that I never got above 305F, but I checked my new logs after some more flying and my cylinder #1 is peaking at about 330F-345F throughout my logs.

I have baffles setup on mine too. Could you post a picture of how you did your baffles?

340F sounds hot to me, but who knows? My plane flys awesome, so if its getting too hot I have no idea.

Have you tried to fly without baffles to see what your temps are? I'm contemplating removing my baffles and doing a flight just to see what the temps are...



Originally Posted by MDavis28 View Post
Hi guys! I moved my temp sensor to the back of cylinder 1 to see what temps I get. This was the warmest day I have flown it as of yet. On ground after first start it quickly warmed up to 120*. Normally it takes a min or 2. After 3 min of flight with 50%~75% throttle doing just banked turns and rolls the temps climbed to just over 300*. As I did large loops and Cuban 8's it eventually maxed out at 377* once it hit that I throttled back to 30% and flew a few circuits and set er down. Once bac to the pits it was still around 260*F. So I am going to work on some baffling. But since I have started to work on it I did notice that my no.1 spark plug cap came off rather easy so I decided to bend the middle of the clips inward just slightly. See pic. After doing this it holds on very well.
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Old 04-19-2016, 04:46 AM
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The temps I recorded on mine, in an earlier post shows in-cowl and without. I also had the temp probe right under the exhaust outlet (well, one fin down anyway)
I would suggest that the 377F that MDavis got is way too high. Perhaps with some baffles in place, and sufficient exit area, this could be controlled fairly well. I think the interesting thing to me is the way the temps fluctuate from high to low, and back again, might be a cause for concern on the metallic makeup of the cylinder..perhaps contributing to the failures.
I have installed 3 small louvres, one above and behind each cylinder, and two large ones in the rear of the cowl, to aid airflow OUT of the cowl. I am also going to install a baffle, made by these guys... www.rcmodelcomposites.com
I will pick it up while I am in the UK and will start testing in May again..
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Old 04-19-2016, 05:03 AM
  #622  
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What plane do you have your engine in? I have the Top Flite P47 giant Tarheel Hal. I think my baffle setup is fine, but I'm guessing the output out of the cowl could be more. Not much I can do on that... Just wish I knew the answer to the question, is 340F an acceptable temperature? Sure seems to run just fine.




Originally Posted by cathurga View Post
The temps I recorded on mine, in an earlier post shows in-cowl and without. I also had the temp probe right under the exhaust outlet (well, one fin down anyway)
I would suggest that the 377F that MDavis got is way too high. Perhaps with some baffles in place, and sufficient exit area, this could be controlled fairly well. I think the interesting thing to me is the way the temps fluctuate from high to low, and back again, might be a cause for concern on the metallic makeup of the cylinder..perhaps contributing to the failures.
I have installed 3 small louvres, one above and behind each cylinder, and two large ones in the rear of the cowl, to aid airflow OUT of the cowl. I am also going to install a baffle, made by these guys... www.rcmodelcomposites.com
I will pick it up while I am in the UK and will start testing in May again..
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:29 AM
  #623  
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I am not sure what an ideal temp is, and I also don't know the accuracy of the spektrum TM1000 telemetry and sensor, so its a little guesswork. I know some guys were attaching really accurate/sensitive probes during running in phases. But not seen much in-flight records.
I have mine in a Yak-55M. I chose a cheap, easy flier as a platform to get the engine run in, the cooling sorted out, and without spending money on an expensive, heavy warbird.
Its eventually going into a Bearcat.

Personally I think 340F (170C) is too hot...

Last edited by cathurga; 04-19-2016 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:42 PM
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I do not have any baffling in my plane. It is the new Top Flite razorback P47. I was getting 220-240*F on the no1 cyl. But the sensor was in the front. So when guy were talking about the sensor being on the back side I decided to move mine. And that is when I discover that it was getting hotter than I ever wanted it to. I think 300*F is too hot period. I would like to see temps no higher than 275*F on the back side, so it seems I have some work to do.
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Old 04-20-2016, 04:52 AM
  #625  
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It would be nice if someone from Saito/Horizon would chime on these temps.
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