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Saito FG-60R3

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Old 10-25-2017, 03:26 AM
  #1601  
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I am not sure price has anything to do with the costs of manufacturer/ing. I flew my engine ~50 times before it blew a cylinder. It cost me about 20 bucks per flight (also my nerves :-D), so I think it is not exactly a great value..
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Old 10-25-2017, 06:36 AM
  #1602  
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Really, price has nothing to do with cost of manufacturing... So I guess if it cost $900 to build, would you imagine a company might price it at $500 because "well, that's what it feels like the value should be"? lol outside of that blunder in logic, I can understand spending money on things and having it fail prematurely. With these engines it's a tough call on whether it's user error, the engines are "too" sensitive to tune, or if there was some sort of design/manufacturing error.

I was worried about the cylinder cracking myself because of the posts here. I just wonder how many have had them fail vs not after X amount of flights. Not a single issue with mine, but what I have found is that because the bolts are being threaded into aluminum they do tend to loosen after a certain amount of time in areas, so you have to pay attention to it every so many flights.
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Old 10-25-2017, 07:47 AM
  #1603  
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Sorry, still think it is not a good value, but having been around the Moki radials for years they are not a good value either. Personal opinion, not alone.
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:10 PM
  #1604  
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You probably should read Wikipedia article about the price. Engines do seize because of user error sometimes but cylinders don’t crack just like that. In my case the bolts were tight before and after the incident.
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:16 PM
  #1605  
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Hey guys does anyone gave an idea how the power of this compares to a g62???

Thankyou!
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:28 PM
  #1606  
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Originally Posted by show871 View Post
Hey guys does anyone gave an idea how the power of this compares to a g62???

Thankyou!
Not even close. More like a G45.
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:38 PM
  #1607  
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It is down about 500 rpm on the same prop and about 20mph in the air. I tached friends TF P-47 at 6500 on the ground with a Zoar 22X8 and 80mph by radar gun. Same plane with the Saito replaced by a G-62 after it ate itself, exact same Zoar prop. g-62 turned 7000+ on ground and unwound in the air. Speed with same gun 105mph. I did notice that the Saito did not unload in the air very much so I am guessing that the G-62 was turning several hundred more rpm after it unloaded.
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:57 PM
  #1608  
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I have flown my FG60 on both my 85" TF P-47 (at 22 lbs) and my 80" Bearcat (at 20 lbs). It hauls the Bearcat around really well...very fighter like. It just barely handled the Jug...pretty slow and lazy. I fly at below 1000 mean sea level.
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Old 10-25-2017, 03:21 PM
  #1609  
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Not sure of the elevation at the Fredericksberg, Va club field.
All I know is that my 190 with the fg60r3 was keeping up with and matching speeds of three Top Flite P-47s. Their engines were 2 strokes with displaments from 65cc to 85cc.
None of them were slugs. I was very happy to see my little triple keep pace with them.

Last edited by Tommy_Gun; 10-25-2017 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 10-25-2017, 04:41 PM
  #1610  
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I watched Tommy flying with the other planes. His plane was equal to the others in terms of speed etc.
I don't know what the other planes had for engines but he was very well matched with the other planes.
Typically 2 stroke engines have higher RPMs. by design. Typically they also run smaller props because of the lack of torque compared to 4stroke engines.
Get the props matched to the engine and similar displacements should produce similar results.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:53 AM
  #1611  
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I think the G-45 is about right for power equal to the FG60.

On a related subject,cracked cylinder head,a member of our club has a 21cc single cylinder that cracked just like the radials in this thread. Has anyone seen this on the glo version?
My FG60 continues to run well with no problems.
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:47 AM
  #1612  
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Well thanks for all the notes. I really don't need speed for this plane just some nice grunt to get it in the air and out of trouble if need be. Its 29 pds or so, a Byron hellcat that I am rebuilding. I don't think the 90 will fit without butchering the cowl, or I would go that route. what do you guys think? I think the final nail in the coffin is I want to run a 3 blade to do the plane justice
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Old 10-26-2017, 06:28 AM
  #1613  
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Originally Posted by show871 View Post
Well thanks for all the notes. I really don't need speed for this plane just some nice grunt to get it in the air and out of trouble if need be. Its 29 pds or so, a Byron hellcat that I am rebuilding. I don't think the 90 will fit without butchering the cowl, or I would go that route. what do you guys think? I think the final nail in the coffin is I want to run a 3 blade to do the plane justice
Good luck. I don't think I would be happy with the FG60 in a 29 lb plane. Would you fly the plane with a 45cc two stroke engine?
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Old 10-26-2017, 06:57 AM
  #1614  
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Why are you guys using a 22x8 on this engine?

You have to understand that a two stroke may have higher top end RPM, but the torque required to push a larger prop won't be equal to the 3 cylinder FG-60. The FG-60 should be pushing a 22x10, and on the ground hitting around 6,400 - 6,500 when tuned correctly (depending on altitude of course). I've seen my engine unload to 7,400rpm in the air as recorded by my JR 28x telemetry system with tach in the plane. I'm using a Mejzlik 22x10; runs beautifully. I'd have to imagine with the Ray English mod if it stands up the claims are true, that you'd be able to prop up or see an additional 300-500rpm on the same prop.

The engine is solid when it's tuned correctly and running with the correct oil mixture. It's pretty good for a hobby engine I'd have to say; to me it is good value. Sounds great, works great, and to date no issues. I feel like I've gotten my money's worth out of the engine with all the fun and enjoyment I've had out of it already. If any of you have seen some of my other posts, I harshly criticize crap products if that says anything...
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Old 10-26-2017, 07:04 AM
  #1615  
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Originally Posted by show871 View Post
Well thanks for all the notes. I really don't need speed for this plane just some nice grunt to get it in the air and out of trouble if need be. Its 29 pds or so, a Byron hellcat that I am rebuilding. I don't think the 90 will fit without butchering the cowl, or I would go that route. what do you guys think? I think the final nail in the coffin is I want to run a 3 blade to do the plane justice
If you have the coin, this may suit your needs.

http://www.retromotory.cz/wp-content...Drawing_v2.pdf

hv?zdicový p?ti-válcový motor Bombus H80
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Old 10-26-2017, 07:28 AM
  #1616  
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I replaced the G62 on my Top Flite P47 with the Saito. To me the Saito is a little less powerful in comparison with the G62, but still does a decent job of yanking in around. The P47 weighs in at 22 lbs (which surprised me), so that's a factor to consider.
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Old 10-28-2017, 05:15 AM
  #1617  
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Thanks all for the great info!
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Old 11-04-2017, 02:48 AM
  #1618  
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I put four more flights on my FW190/FG60-3 and all went well.

A fellow club member has two single cylinder 21cc engines and both have had the cylinder crack just like the radials on this thread,sure is a lot of smoke around this cylinder design.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:48 PM
  #1619  
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I was having a bit of a tuning problem with my fg60 this last weekend. I could get a good reliable idle at around 1600 RPM, a good top end at around 6000 RPM, and good transition between the two. Exhaust temps well within limits etc, etc. The problem I was having was every time I'd run it up to full throttle for minute or so, and then come back to idle, my idle speed was now 1000-1500 RPM higher than it was before I ran it up! I was thinking the low speed needed adjusting, but never did get the situation to improve much. Finally got the bright idea to check the temp on the plenum area for the hell of it. Idle it was around 130 degrees, but when pushed to full throttle it rapidly rose to 250+! That didn't seem right to me at all, and sure enough, after opening up the high speed needle a 1/4 turn, the plenum temp at full throttle was now 160-170 degrees. A little tweaking of the low speed and my idle problem is gone. Anyway, if someone out there is having a similar problem, hope this helps. (and yes, I had set that high speed needle using RPM, ie max, then a little richer and down 2-300 RPM, evidently that wasn't rich enough, fuel if it matters is 100LL @ 15% Klotz)
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:28 AM
  #1620  
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100ll?
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:18 AM
  #1621  
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100LL... is aviation gas. 100 octane, low lead, no alcohol. $5.00/gallon at the local airport. I use it in all my small gas engines, lawnmowers, weed eaters, G62's, etc.
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Old 11-28-2017, 10:20 PM
  #1622  
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Hi guys, Haven't posted in a while. Here is a video I made on a problem I had with my FG-60r3 after about 5hrs of run time. This was suppose to be a follow up of a video I did back in 2015 or so. Since then the engine no longer has this squeaky valve problem. At Joe Nall 2016 I had the no.2 cylinder crack, Horizon sent me a replacement and I did the work. In December 2016 the no.1 cylinder broke and the engine was sent in. Horizon Replaced the head, piston and ring and cleaned the engine. I did extensive work on a baffling system and took off the Keleo Creations exhaust ring and put the stock ones on. Also I had to add a little to the stock pipes to extend them out of the cowling. Everything was going great till my battery in my DX8 completely died a few months ago. It was fully charged before I left the house. Happened first flight of the day, 7 mins in. I have since replaced the stock battery with the Lipo replacement. Other than some covering left to do, the plane is ready to fly. Only damage to the engine was a bent push rod tube, need to get another one soon. I haven't been on for some time due to the crash, took the wind outta my sails. I haven't flown a whole lot since either. But here is to getting back on the horse!

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Old 11-29-2017, 07:35 PM
  #1623  
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So I've read about cylinders cracking on this engine.
Have all of the cracks happened to engines that had the collector ring exhausts?
Does the collector ring have slip joints to allow movement between the cylinders?
If not, then you are just asking to crack something as the engine heats up and then cools back down the dimensions change between the cylinders.
Full scale aircraft engines have provisions to prevent cracking of engine components, including the exhaust itself, built into the exhaust system.
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:30 AM
  #1624  
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Originally Posted by MDavis28 View Post
Hi guys, Haven't posted in a while. Here is a video I made on a problem I had with my FG-60r3 after about 5hrs of run time. This was suppose to be a follow up of a video I did back in 2015 or so. Since then the engine no longer has this squeaky valve problem. At Joe Nall 2016 I had the no.2 cylinder crack, Horizon sent me a replacement and I did the work. In December 2016 the no.1 cylinder broke and the engine was sent in. Horizon Replaced the head, piston and ring and cleaned the engine. I did extensive work on a baffling system and took off the Keleo Creations exhaust ring and put the stock ones on. Also I had to add a little to the stock pipes to extend them out of the cowling. Everything was going great till my battery in my DX8 completely died a few months ago. It was fully charged before I left the house. Happened first flight of the day, 7 mins in. I have since replaced the stock battery with the Lipo replacement. Other than some covering left to do, the plane is ready to fly. Only damage to the engine was a bent push rod tube, need to get another one soon. I haven't been on for some time due to the crash, took the wind outta my sails. I haven't flown a whole lot since either. But here is to getting back on the horse!

https://youtu.be/YWCjnNnHOoQ
Did Horizon say anything about the Keleo ring . I too am using the ring,with no problem so far. I have about 3 hours on mine.
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:36 AM
  #1625  
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Originally Posted by Tommy_Gun View Post
So I've read about cylinders cracking on this engine.
Have all of the cracks happened to engines that had the collector ring exhausts?
Does the collector ring have slip joints to allow movement between the cylinders?
If not, then you are just asking to crack something as the engine heats up and then cools back down the dimensions change between the cylinders.
Full scale aircraft engines have provisions to prevent cracking of engine components, including the exhaust itself, built into the exhaust system.
The ring is a rigid connection. If I remember correctly, there is one engine using the stock exhaust,in this thread, with a cracked head. There is a member of my local club with the 20cc single cylinder and he has two that have cracked,using stock exhaust.
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