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Saito FG-60R3

Old 05-18-2015, 11:14 AM
  #101  
SWORDSN
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Hector,did you have to add any weight for balance?I know that it comes with built in weight.
Old 05-18-2015, 10:56 PM
  #102  
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No weight added at all for the first flight - I left the built-in weight on. I went for the Sierra tail wheel but took care to use aluminium bolts on the back to mount it and the lightest 3" foam wheel I could get my hands on.

Still, it flew OK but slightly tailheavy. For the next session, I have added about 200gr of fine lead shot in the cowl ring to shift the CG a bit fwd - TF birds lock-in nicely when nose-heavy..
Old 05-20-2015, 03:56 AM
  #103  
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Nose heavy seems to be the favored by most pilots.That weight in the cowl ring might amplify the vibration and crack the cowl where the screws attach it to the fuse.What do you think?.
Old 05-20-2015, 07:05 AM
  #104  
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I think you are right. Nevertheless, I decided to take my chances with the cowl weights, given that I have really taken care of the ply ring mount bond to the GFRP (good clean-up of the GF with ethanol, use of slow epoxy under heated curing conditions, "pinning-out" the wood for the epoxy to seep in well, using chopped micro fiber to reinforce the fillets). Time will tell..!

Last edited by hpergm; 05-20-2015 at 07:10 AM.
Old 05-21-2015, 07:50 PM
  #105  
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Finally picked up the FG-60R3 for my vintage Byron Beech Staggerwing project. Received the same feeling of "wow" as when I opened the box of my FG-33R3. Keleo on the way

Old 05-23-2015, 05:00 AM
  #106  
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Here is my plane ready for maiden shortly, looking really forward to it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9MM3L1hHFA
Old 05-23-2015, 05:23 PM
  #107  
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Cowl fits without cuts?
Old 05-24-2015, 02:43 AM
  #108  
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Thats a big affirmative
Old 05-24-2015, 06:05 AM
  #109  
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Hi guys, my P-47 with the FG-60 is already in flight, today I did the maiden flight, with Graupner G-sonic pro 22x10 propeller 7000 rpm full of power, great prop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL-cCVzCw4w&feature=youtu.be
Old 05-28-2015, 07:09 PM
  #110  
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I'm struggling guys.. help! Just mounted the motor to a stand... plug wires are in correctly... battery is charged... 20:1 mix... 2 out on high needle and 6 out on low screw... 1/4 throttle

It sputters but will not stay running... any guidance will be much appreciated!!!

thanks in advance
Old 05-28-2015, 08:20 PM
  #111  
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Go out 7.5-8 on the low and 4 on the high and try again...
Old 05-28-2015, 10:31 PM
  #112  
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I had to lean my carb settings to get it to run OK ,, but i am in the tropics and all my motors are always leaned out to what is recommended to get them to run properly .
My FG60 is running very good now with about 5Lt of fuel through it to date,, 20x10 3 blade wooden prop pulling 6200rpm..
Old 05-29-2015, 12:22 PM
  #113  
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no luck still
Old 05-30-2015, 05:17 AM
  #114  
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Sparky, have you prime the engine correctly before start?

The second day of my... P-47 Racerbolt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk0Zn4nEYZY&feature=youtu.be
Old 05-30-2015, 06:24 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by sparky4lawndart
no luck still
You need to go over the entire engine/installation carefully. Is it a fuel delivery problem, a tuning problem or an ignition problem?

- Are the plug caps securely on?
- Are the plugs fouled? Clean them and retry.
- Is the battery able to provide the necessary current? Remember, this is a TRIPLE ignition. Also is your switch healthy?
- Is there any air being drawn by the carb (loose bolts, loose needles, loose tubing)?
- Are you running part ethanol in your fuel? Is your fuel freshly mixed?

Finally, try to start the engine at 1/3~1/2 throttle @ very rich setting. 1/4 is too low if you have richened the carb. Let it spin up to 2k rpm for warm up and then tune WOT @ <4,000.

Let us know.
Hector.
Old 05-30-2015, 03:36 PM
  #116  
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Keleo exhaust
Xoar 22X10
2S rcvr lipo - new and charged 7.4v
91 octane Chevron Fuel with 20:1 Redline
plug look good
plug caps on securely
no leaks - it'll draw fuel - some of it leaks out the muffler onto the floor

If I swap the plugs for cylinder 2 and 3 the motor will actually run for a few seconds really rough (no... I did not do any changes to the motor at all... I have NOT disassembled anything)

Horizon Hobby promised a call back from someone familiar with Saito engines... that did not happen... They say only alternative is to send the motor back for a checkup.. doh! that would suck really bad!!!
Old 05-30-2015, 06:28 PM
  #117  
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if I change the plug wires on 2 and 3 the motor tries to run.. if there where they're supposed to be the motor doesn't even pop...
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Old 05-30-2015, 10:55 PM
  #118  
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Hi Frank, how do you prime the engine?
Old 05-31-2015, 12:00 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by sparky4lawndart
Keleo exhaust
no leaks - it'll draw fuel - some of it leaks out the muffler onto the floor
Just remembered; before running the engine for the 1st time, I made a check on the valve train and found 3 valves slightly out of spec.
Have you checked valve tappet clearances? Just make sure the piston is a TDC on the ignition cycle before you do this (both tappets do not move at that position).

Also, I doubt that there is a mistake on the plug wire assignment - there's a large sticker on the ignition that cannot be put on reverse. The engine will run with only 1 or 2 cylinders (rough, but will run) - no reason to go down this route...

Is the fuel well filtered? Maybe there is a little deposit or something on the high needle seat that obstructs the flow.

Finally, Alex is right: the engine needs a good prime to start. Blow on the vent tube of the tank with the carb @ WOT to basically flood it (fuel should even dribble out the trumpet..). Then close the carb to 1/3, ignition on and crank it up (by hand).

Last edited by hpergm; 05-31-2015 at 04:33 AM.
Old 05-31-2015, 05:32 PM
  #120  
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Here is the outcome today..

I got to the flightline early to meet a buddy of mine who's been doing this since the day of the dinosaurs, when dirt was clean, controlled flight meant you aimed the boulder correctly...

He got to tinkering and checked on the tappets, fuel draw (he's got a cool do-hickey that tells you how much fuel is drawn to the carb, check the plugs and ignition... turns out my number 3 cylinder is actually plug 1, and the 2 cylinder is 3, and 1 is 2...

in other words... no other changes were made and the motor kicked to 4K RPM with the recommended needles.. 2 out on high and 6 out on low.

The motor ran great for 4 16oz tanks... each time allowing the cylinders to cool to the touch... average cylinder temp 195 +/- 10degrees...

on the fifth tank, approx. 60 seconds after running normally at about 3900RPM cylinder 2 (based on the drawing above) cracked at it's base so I shut off the ignition and found the head of one of the bolts on the floor...

Spectator assessments from the cheap seats agree that it was either running the engine for too long or oil-based hydraulic lock...

I'm going to see if this will be covered by Horizon Hobby.. I've never tried their customer service so this is very nerve racking.
Old 05-31-2015, 09:24 PM
  #121  
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My recently received engine came with this manual addendum


The way I interpret this is to to fully open the throttle (after warming), with throttle open, open the high needle until the engine almost dies (essentially, run as fat/rich as possible) for 2 tanks. This should significantly reduce the RPM. If the RPM doesn't decrease, then open the low speed needle as well. Probably good idea to run in on 15:1 as well.

Based on your explanation, it sounds like your engine was running sufficiently lean enough to achieve 3900 RPM, which, as this addendum states, can result in failure.

Good luck!

Last edited by marksp; 06-01-2015 at 05:06 AM.
Old 06-01-2015, 05:14 AM
  #122  
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Hi Sparky sorry to hear of your misfortune, do you have any pictures of the crack in the engine we can see and learn from?

These engines do need a long run in period I put 5 letters of 20:1 fuel through mine with 8 turns out on the low and 4 on the high, and not going above 4000 rpm on WOT (wide open throttle). They do need to be run very rich for the first few hours, I think my run in period totaled 3 hours of engine run time before I started to tune it.
Old 06-01-2015, 06:13 AM
  #123  
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Old 06-01-2015, 06:21 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by sparky4lawndart
in other words... no other changes were made and the motor kicked to 4K RPM with the recommended needles.. 2 out on high and 6 out on low.
The motor ran great for 4 16oz tanks... each time allowing the cylinders to cool to the touch... average cylinder temp 195 +/- 10degrees...
on the fifth tank, approx. 60 seconds after running normally at about 3900RPM cylinder 2 (based on the drawing above) cracked at it's base so I shut off the ignition and found the head of one of the bolts on the floor...
Spectator assessments from the cheap seats agree that it was either running the engine for too long or oil-based hydraulic lock...
Sorry to hear about this outcome...

- When you say it ran great, you mean it was running near optimum mixture or still overly rich (but not stopping)? If it was run lean, then the cylinder might have simply seazed. With any luck, you won't have crankshaft damage and will simply need to replace cylinder/piston/ring.
- Then, the cylinder temps; 195 is F or C? I take it this was during running @ WOT. How did you measure - by IR?
- Also, any chance one of the lower exhaust tubes creating some sort of siphon to allow gravity poolling of fuel/oil? Did you crank the engine by starter or hand?
- Was the air vent of the crankcase free-breathing?
Old 06-01-2015, 07:13 AM
  #125  
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answers...

it was running great - it was starting easily by hand... WOT @ 4,000 RPM with 2 out on the high needle and 6 out on the low needle (set with the throttle closed) very rich - a lot of black oil coming out of the motor
cylinder temps - 185 degrees cylinder two, 195 degrees cylinder 1, and 205 degrees cylinder 3 - all F with a digital laser temp gauge on the top of the cylinder
exhaust - no "pooling" that I could see/hear... started by hand
crankcase vent - no tube or blockage


Originally Posted by hpergm
Sorry to hear about this outcome...

- When you say it ran great, you mean it was running near optimum mixture or still overly rich (but not stopping)? If it was run lean, then the cylinder might have simply seazed. With any luck, you won't have crankshaft damage and will simply need to replace cylinder/piston/ring.
- Then, the cylinder temps; 195 is F or C? I take it this was during running @ WOT. How did you measure - by IR?
- Also, any chance one of the lower exhaust tubes creating some sort of siphon to allow gravity poolling of fuel/oil? Did you crank the engine by starter or hand?
- Was the air vent of the crankcase free-breathing?

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