scubaozy

No cowl installed yet, it is a pain to put it on, so I decided to install it when engine is broken in.

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

Plenty of room in my 30 year old Byron Originals Beech Staggerwing!

TomH

My Feedback: (4)

Hey marksp, can you tell what size your cowl is. My 60 is ready to go. Sent it to Ray for break in, and a carb mod that he does, plus just wanted him to inspect it since it was from the new batch with mod corrections. The only thing I have that will fit so far is a EF 91 YAK. the cowl looks like a 2 gallon bucket. I want a scale/semi scale plane. I also have Kelo ring

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

I'm on the road for a few days, so won't be able to measure. Having said that, it appears to fit a wide range of 50cc class round cowl airframes judging from the pics & YouTube vids.

Cheers

scubaozy

I have an interesting experience yesterday. Short after take off, I started getting reduced engine power. It was enough power to cruise around so I had a normal flight and landing. Upon landing I found that spark plug cap on cylinder #1 was out and dangling around. Make sure they are secure. Additionally one of the exhaust pipes is already broken, right at the spot where flexi-pipe meets with exhaust manifold. Don't think it is built to last. I ordered a Keleo today as replacement pipe is quite expensive.

sparky4lawndart

My Feedback: (10)

Hey guys... still having a tough time getting my needles right... struggling with altitude changes at different sites, etc..

I have my engine in a cowl that takes about 20 minutes to get off and 20 minutes to get back on again... I need some ideas to make the needles more accessible without cutting hatches in the cowl... any help is much appreciated!

example: how do you guys get to the low end needle easily...

kwik

Where your pipes properly secured at the other end?

If not, they will last perhaps 10-15 flights.

If secured, mine has lasted for, well, I stopped counting after approx 75 flights.

hpergm

Needle guide installation from the TF FW190...
You just need a couple of drinking straws, 2 plywood mounts and a 1.5mm(or 2-56?) hex bolt for the High needle (so you can turn it with a long hex driver).

scubaozy

They were secured with provided bracket to each other not touching the firewall. I think I have bent it too much but it doesn't matter anymore since I replaced it with keleo

kwik

So they were left free to oscillate together then.

hehe.

ALFIEV

So....... I have just bought my first ever Saito, and it is my first ever 3-cylinder radial. I have read through this forum thread and appreciate the clues and opinions expressed. I ran the engine for the first time last evening and found it pretty easy to start, running 15:1 valvoline 2-stroke synthetic. As has been mentioned before, I had to richen the low-speed needle to get the rpm to drop. I think I over-did this as the rpm stabilised around 2800 rpm on a XOAR beechwood 22 x 10 prop at full open throttle. I noticed that the top cylinder was definitely hotter than the two lower cyliders, No 2 was a little hotter than No.3. All cylinders could be touched on the rocker covers without burning my finger-tips. Ran about a litre of fuel through at this setting.
My next run I will lean the low speed needle out to get closer to 4000 rpm at full throttle.

Is there anything you guys might note that I might be doing wrong? I think I am running it in correctly as per the instructions.

kwik

One very important tip to all 4 stroke owners, really;

Before first flight, and after perhaps 10 flights (Maybe earlier);

Check valve clearance !!!

"Reverend" in Germany told me that he and his friends have a theory now onto why some of the Saito's blow off a cylinder;

If the engine throws TWO rods, both valves will close.......

Best theory I've heard so far, ( clever !!) except perhaps loose cylinder bolts.

On my FG-57's the valve clearance tended to change rapidly during the first perhaps 10 flights. After readjustment they tend to settle.

The threads on the valve adjustments are quite coarse, I think. Too coarse, in my opinion.

ALFIEV

Thanks kwik. Yes, I checked the valve clearances before I fired her up. One was way too big a clearance, the others were all good. I have some small experience with a Gas 4-stroke, the NGH GF-38, and your comments about regular checking and adjustment especially during early hours of running are very true from what I have seen so far.
I will check the cylinder base bolts soon as well. Hope to put this engine into a Topflite Giant Zero some time next year.

ALFIEV

And so..... another litre of 15:1 has passed through this engine. Boy has it left an oil slick on the grass in the yard!!!! Anyway, I note that the top cylinder was running approx. 45 degrees C, No 2 at about 35 degrees and No 3 at about 30 degrees. Surprised at the wide temperature variation, but thinking it might just be a symptom of the really rich mixture.
My next course of action will be to pull all the plugs and clean them, check all the valve clearances, check the tightness of all the engine bolts and then I think it's time to move to 20:1 fuel and lean her up.
Does this seem like a good sequence of events?

ALFIEV

So... too windy to go flying on the weekend, too bad, but it was an opportunity to spend some quality time with my new engine.

Now running 20:1 oil/fuel mix. Went through the leaning/richening regime as directed in the instructions. Then decided it was time to lean everything out and see if we can get an idle and a peak rpm.
Couldn't get above 6000rpm by adjustment of the high-speed needle alone. Had to adjust low-speed needle some (makes sense, had to adjust low-speed needle out to achieve rich running at full throttle so this needs to be reversed I guess). Took a while, but did achieve 7000 rpm at full throttle on the XOAR 22x10 prop. I think that is about optimal.

No.1 cylinder was still hottest, No.2 not far behind, but No.3 is still 10-15 degrees cooler. Checked plugs, No.1 and 2 looking good, No.3 pretty dirty. A few small adjustments required on valve clearances.

Seems set up quite nice now. Will just continue to run like this for a while and see where it goes. Reasonably happy with this engine so far.

Timbers

My Feedback: (3)

Like to introduce myself I am Timbers and I just picked up a FG-60R3 through Horizon's black Friday deal! Going to mount it in the giant scale P47 from Top Flite. I'm no stranger to Saito's gasoline line. I was one of the first buyers of the Saito FG-20 and after blowing out exhaust valves in three of those, I was able to obtain a Saito FG-21 for comparison which I have about 7 gallons through now without any issues.

I have some questions before I get started monkeying with this engine.

1. I've been running Redline synthetic in my FG-21. Is that oil going to be ok for me in this engine? I see you guys running Penzoil, Coolpower, etc... I'm assuiming my Redline oil will be just fine.

2. What do you use to monitor cylinder temps? I'd like something that can log temp while I'm flying even. Maybe just buy three temp loggers, and install all three on the plane?

3. Are you guys fouling plugs up doing the break-in? I see lots of guys having cylinder temp differences that seem to go away once the engine is broken in. Am I going to go through hundreds of dollars in plugs breaking this thing in?

Thanks!

scubaozy

1. I am using valvoline synpower 2 stroke oil. I read that top of the line 2stroke oils such as bell ray tend to burn too well and much less left for the lubrication. Distributor of Roto 4 stroke engines in Germany recommending this. But I think any good quality full syntetic will do.
2. I am using a cheap infrared thermometer. I considered getting telemetry temperature module but I already broke in the engine so I didn't bother getting one but it is not a bad idea.
3. After initial break in, I cleaned the plugs and they are doing fine. I don't thing you need to replace them after break in. As for cylinder temps, just follow the instructions from Saito and it is going to be fine. My experience is, top cylinder is always cooking when running long on the ground. Whenever I measure after the flight they are more or less equal. So I recommend that you just fly it after recommended ground break in and avoid running the engine with full throttle on the ground for too long.

sparky4lawndart

My Feedback: (10)

It's been a long 4 day holiday flying weekend and the motor let go a couple hours ago... I have probably 8 gallons of fuel through it and the same cylinder that broke last time broke again... at the base...

I've checked valves before every weekend.. I'm just not having any luck with this motor.

I'll fill out the form on Horizon AGAIN and see if it's going to take over a month again... Everyone at my flightline says it's hydrolock.. too much oil content at 17:1 (Redline and 91octane fuel)...

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

Yikes! Sorry to hear about your second engine failure!

Potentially supporting the hydro-lock theory - when the FG-60R3 started shipping I had a discussion w/Ray English. He shared the good news is Saito licensed his revised plenum design (for FG-60R3 only) which should significantly enhance balanced fuel distribution (and temps) to each cylinder, the not so good news is they designed in too much volume. Not exactly certain that this is your issue, but it certainly sounds like it could be related.

BTW, He offers a mod which reduces this resulting in a more efficient running engine and generates an additional 500RPM as well.

Both my FG-33R3 and FG-60R3 were sent to him for the updates from new and run 15:1 so I don't think the issue is your fuel/oil ratio.

Cheers

Timbers

My Feedback: (3)

Thats scary, did it blow out when you were in the air each time?

ALFIEV

Hmmnnn.... seems I was dreaming when I posted that I got 7000rpm on my XOAR 22X10 prop. I was using a hand held tachometer and may have mis-read the screen, a bit hard to see with the sun shining on it. Have continued running this engine, best I can pull is 6000 rpm. If I lean the low needle any further the idle falls away, at a good idle I only make 5900-6000 rpm. Starting on my 5th litre of fuel now. Valve gaps checked, spark plugs running quite clean, but can't seem to get up around the 6700-6800 rpm I would expect from this engine. All cylinders appear to be firing nicely now, temperatures reasonably even (No. 2 cylinder a little hotter now than the others???) . I might just have to get brave and lean the low-speed needle further to get my rpm and then see if I can get any sort of idle. High-speed needle is leaned as far as the engine will allow (further lean and the rpm decays).
Strange!!
I see that earlier posts in this thread suggest that 5600 rpm or thereabouts is acceptable on a XOAR 22X10, but then I see postings of 6800 rpm. Any clues??

chorner

The specs for the engine state 6,700 RPM approx. for a Mejzlik prop. The Xoar props are a little bit less efficient, and have a thicker airfoil - hence the drop in RPM. Not sure if they produce more thrust than the Mejzlik, but that's the explanation for your differences in RPM

ALFIEV

Thanks for the reply chorner. I guess you are right, different props, different efficiencies. Problem is, what should a 22 x 10 XOAR beechwood prop produce with this engine? I mean, it has to put out enough thrust to fly the model, if not it is just an expensive decoration for the front end!! I think the APC equivalent prop will give a higher rpm, thinner blade.
Guess I'll find out when I try to fly the model!!!

chorner

No problem! It should still put out at least 22lbs of thrust or so by estimation at those RPMS; again, depending on the prop efficiency though. With the Mejzlik 22x10 at ~6,700rpm you should be seeing around ~26lbs of thrust or so on the ground by estimation

johnhi

Sorry to hear about your second cracked cylinder, from experiencing one of these failures myself I believe the cause are the bolts loosening. When I received the engine from new and ran it for the first time cylinder 3 was loose after 5mins, and after tightening as much as I could 15 flights later number 2 cylinder is cracked at the base. I do believe there is a design fault here as the cylinder bolts are difficult to get access to and really tighten down.

I'm thinking if replacing all the bolts with studs and putting a nut with a washer in, like this I saw recently on a review of a Roto engine.