Timbers

My Feedback: (3)

Put mine on the lathe yesterday and bored it out. Looks great now!

deadstick79

Well,
I now have all the components for the eagletree logger and the Morris Mini Motor Walbro conversion in hand and will soon start the breakin
I won't swap out carbs til afterward!
Dan

chorner

Awesome, let us know how the carb swap works out in terms of performance etc. Will you need a pump or does the design of the engine intake provide proper pulse to work the diaphragm?

Timbers

My Feedback: (3)

Me too. I actually hooked it all up and it works great. I used this "Arctic Alumina" thermal epoxy. Its like JB Weld but transmits temperature really fast. Its also very permanent. So if this sensor ever breaks I don't know how I'm going to get it off. Probably have to grind it off slowly with a Dremel Tool. I mounted the sensor right on the flat part of the fin that is under the intake port. I figured it wouldn't interfere with the spark plug or boot that way. I mounted it sideways so the end of the sensor and some of the wire go through the fin. I'm hoping that keeps it stable. My biggest worry is someday having one of the sensor wires break off from fatigue or vibration or whatever. I guess we will see....

But anyways the temperatures go up quickly if I put my hand on the cylinder, within 10 seconds the temp starts to climb.

I built my engine stand and mounted all of the electronics. We are supposed to have 40 degree temps this weekend so I'm thinking of running the engine in! If the engine doesn't seem to be getting hot enough because of the colder air temperature then I will probably wait until it gets a little warmer out.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

I flew my engine five flights today. The first three were without the cowl and were used to get the high and low needles adjusted. I had to lean the low end needle quite a bit in order to get the top end to not run rich in the air. After installing the cowl I flew another two flights and the engine ran really good. The rpm on the ground was 6150 and it picked up some more in the air. Idle was solid at 1400. The engine swap added over 1 lb. to the airplane....up from 20.5 to 21.7...this included 6 oz of lead in the tail. The power is definitely less than the EME 55 that was in the plane before, but is still plenty for nice scale flying. The sound is "beautiful".

deadstick79

Good to hear!
What size prop you using?
I'm at 5500 feet elevation so...
Thanks,
Dan

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Prop is a TF 22x10 Powerprop

Timbers

My Feedback: (3)

I broke my engine in today. Overall I had good luck, followed the Saito directions. 40 degree air temperature. Ran the engine for 3 tanks that equaled about 1 liter of fuel and had the needles set so that the engine was around 4000RPM at full throttle. Ran each of those three tanks at full throttle. Cylinder 1 was the only one firing, and had temps around 270-300F, cylinder 2 around 125F and cylinder 3 around 80F.

After 1 liter was through the engine, I tuned it for performance, I went up to about 6700RPM and backed down a little to achieve around 6300RPM at full throttle. Went back to the low needle then and adjusted for a somewhat clean transition.

Finally ran about 1/3 of another liter through the engine by letting it idle for 30 seconds to let it cool down then full throttle until the temps went into the upper 200F range. Let it cool down and repeated until the tank was empty. I was hoping this would give me some heat cycling that would help to break it in.

After break-in my cylinder temps were closer, but cylinder 3 was till always about 20-40 degrees off of cylinder 1 and 2.

I'm pretty happy with it, it runs like a sewing machine now. I'm going to put it in the plane and tune it slightly rich and go fly. I'm sure over time the three cylinders will all even out and things will be good.

I included some videos and photos of my experience today. The Eagletree systems setup that I bought is so cool. It monitors, displays and records the temps on all three cylinders for the entire time I was breaking the engine in. I'm including some pictures of the graphs. You can see the first three runs on the graph where 1 cylinder is much higher than the other two. The the last couple runs after I tuned it show all three of them somewhat comparable.

Running rich https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfKaGc06V5c


After breakin temps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_IxsILx8dg


Transitions after tuning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKMuUMWii7w

What a disgusting greasy tarry mess all over my engine stand while breaking it in!!

...Tim

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

The good news is that most of the black oil mess goes away when you lean out for full power. Don't forget to hook up a piece of tubing to the crankcase breather nipple to dump the oil out of the cowl. I was surprised by how much crap comes from there.

deadstick79

Excellent!
Its's only going to be in the twenties and windy for the next few days so the wind chills will not be nice Plus prop blast wind chill. Murphy's Law

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

My engine sounded about like yours on the bench. When I first flew it, it was running way too rich in the air and I couldn't get a good setting with the high speed needle. After leaning out the low speed needle it ran perfect.

Timbers

My Feedback: (3)

How does the FG60R3 sound when its rich in the air? My FG21 will either make a sputtering/missing noise or it will just sound lower on the RPM range. Does the FG60R3 sound like its missing when you are up in the air?

Any recommendation on how to set the needles before I fly? I was thinking of finding the top RPM then richening it up till its a couple hundred RPM lower. So lets say I can get 6700 out of it on the ground, richen it up so I'm around 6300 maybe?

I'd hate to have it lean out in the air and stall. I'll probably test it by going full throttle a few times and listen for the RPM to drop. If I hear the RPM dropping then I know its lean, I'll stay out of that part of the throttle band until I can get back on the ground to richen.

chorner

Timbers and anyone else can comment on this, as I haven't flown my FG-60 yet... but setting the carb like a glow engine where you back off a full few hundred RPM isn't going to work so well for a gas engine. I think when you set the engine slightly rich from peak, you set it very slightly rich from peak. Like 100rpm rich from peak. Just make sure your low end isn't so lean that you couldn't drop the RPM down to 6,300 by opening up the main needle.

You can't rely on the fuel for cooling as much as in a glow engine, you have to let the airflow do the work in a gas engine.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Your description is correct. The low speed needle seems to have more effect on tuning than the high speed needle. Lean the low end until the idle is really smooth and the engine accelerates instantly. Find max rpm with the high speed needle and then richen it up just a little.

One thing I did do was install baffles in my cowl to force all the incoming air through the engine fins.

scubaozy

What are your final needle settings?

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

I don't know. I started with the factory setting and tweaked from there.

luckymacy

What mods need to be done to the firewall to make the engine fit correctly to clear the front of the cowl (ie, do we need to cut the cowl down or does the Saito need any extensions from the firewall to clear the cowl)?

I'm replacing a DLE 55 so will I likely then need to move all the batteries as far back as possible and may even need to add tail weight? In other words, I haven't found a build thread on this plane and engine combo yet so curious how it's going to go down.

Also, sure the after market exhausts like keleo may be 'neater' but whats the real benefit of using them over the stock flex steel hose? Is there any performance to be gained or a lot of weight to be saved by going to keleo?

also, how thirsty is this engine, relatively speaking? to keep total weight down it'd be nice to use as small a fuel tank as needed for a twelve minute flight where assume that most of the flight is at full throttle.

One more thing, did you ever find a 'half way' decently performing 3 blade prop for this engine? What is the best two blade for a good combination of great flat out speed making a low pass down the runway but also able to do make decent loops without falling out over the top or having to dive a lot to pick up speed first, etc. LOL

thx!

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

I didn't make any changes to the cowl. I had to make 3/4" longer standoffs to get the prop in the right place.

The engine does add a pound to the nose. I added 6 oz of lead to the tail of my P-47.

The stock exhausts should work fine. The Keleo seems to "sound" better. Not much difference in weight.

The engine is supposed to use 30cc ( 1 oz ) per min at full power. I flew for 7 minutes and used way less than half of a 24 oz tank.

I'm using a 22x10 two blade and it seems to work well.

luckymacy

Thanks Radford. Is the stock firewall supported well enough to take the weight and moment of the engine or did you beef yours up and if so how? Are these things shakers and are you constantly having to inspect the cowl retaining wooden extensions?

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

The stock firewall is adequate. The engine doesn't shake nearly as much as the EME 55 it replaced.

ALFIEV

Hi Hector,

can you tell me where you can buy the Topflite Zero? No one in my part of the world stocks them. I have gone to Towerhobbies in the States, they have been good for a lot of my model requirements, but they have this model on backorder since October 2015. I have contacted Towerhobbies and they have no idea when Topflite might make another run of this Zero!!! I wonder if Topflite will ever make any in the future. Pretty bad when the major distributor of a brand has no idea when the manufacturer might, if ever, make another batch.
Sorry fellas, off topic a bit, but may be of interest to anyone else looking to fit a Saito 60 R 3 to a Topflite model.

Timbers

My Feedback: (3)

What kind of electric starter are you guys using for this engine? My plan in the spring is to hand flip it, after blowing into the vent line to at least get the fuel up to the carb. Maybe flip it over a few times at full throttle before turning on the ignition to help pull some fuel into the carb.

I have a Sullivan Dynatron but I don't think thats going to turn this thing over. Even with a 2S lipo powering it. If the flipping becomes a pain in the ass for the first start every day then I may have to get myself a new starter.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Mine doesn't need a starter. But, it does need a choke. Once the carb has gas the engine starts quickly.

SWORDSN

My Feedback: (13)

There is one for sale here on RC universe in the warbirds for sale section(new in box). Shipping it to New Zealand will be expensive.

ALFIEV

Thanks SWORDSN, didn't even think to check the sales in this site. Will take a look.