Saito FG-60R3
05-24-2016, 09:17 AM
#676
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7 weeks since I have sent mine back. You are lucky with horizon service in US. Aeronaut Germany is the main importer of saito and their service is miserable. They told me that engine is sent to Japan and being repaired there. Will not leave japan another 2 weeks. There is not going to be another saito for me.
05-24-2016, 09:44 AM
#677
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It was very hard for me to get this off, the only way I could get the orange insert off in the end was with pliers and I ended up completely tearing it apart, so if I needed to put the old saito carb back on I'd have to get a new one.
05-24-2016, 10:27 AM
#678
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Johni, yeah, happened to me too. Eventually got a drill bit of 10mm and slow drilled until the bits that were left in there came off in one piece. It meant though, that I had to take the entire inlet plenum apart and clean out all the rubbish trying to remove that thing. I oiled up the new o-ring on the adaptor and it went in there pretty snug. Hopefully it will work ok. I will have to change the servo location for the throttle, but that's not a biggie, I am now worried that the standoffs will be too short as it looks like the carb extends back a bit more. Will see if I can drill out the firewall enough, otherwise the prop will be sticking out further than I like.
Looking forward to seeing if it tunes easier and holds the tune better.
While I was at it, I put new plugs in and set the valve gaps. Number one cylinder valve gear was notably 'drier' than the others. I think I will take the time to oil No.1 up from time to time. The valve gaps were also bigger on that one.....hmm, think this engine needs more work/ideas to get the lube around.
While I had the back plate off, it was reassuring to see that there was lots of oil sloshing around in the crankcase....
Looking forward to seeing if it tunes easier and holds the tune better.
While I was at it, I put new plugs in and set the valve gaps. Number one cylinder valve gear was notably 'drier' than the others. I think I will take the time to oil No.1 up from time to time. The valve gaps were also bigger on that one.....hmm, think this engine needs more work/ideas to get the lube around.
While I had the back plate off, it was reassuring to see that there was lots of oil sloshing around in the crankcase....
05-24-2016, 10:31 AM
#679
Mine hasn't cracked....yet. I hope it doesn't. I had her out this morning and she was running sweetly. I was trying to get some more revs out of her, but it seems that in a safe zone of needle-settings, 6400 rpm on the ground is max, but she certainly revs out a little more in the air. I was messing with the LSN to try and get the transition smooth, without all the smoke, there seems to be a lot of it, but this may be as I am running on 15:1 that I was using to break her in on, as well as the original spark plugs which are still going. Will replace all of that with 20:1 and some new plugs. Problem is, the plugs I have are not Saito, and don't have the 'notch' for the spring clips. I hope the leads stay on well enough. One thing that has changed temps DRAMATICALLY is the baffle I made. Previously I was getting temps into 150 Deg C and above. This was according to the Spektrum TM1000 mounted on the top cylinder. I measured the temps with a laser temp checker and it was always showing 10-15 Deg C less than spectrum. Since putting the baffle in, temps go as high as 140, so the baffle makes a huge difference
So after todays flight, I started stripping the motor to do the moris mini walbro conversion, set the valve gaps and put new plugs. Some interesting obeservations I made....
No 1 cylinder valve gaps are larger than the others and the rocker areas are quite 'dry' in comparison with the other two. This means that for sure there is less lubrication happening on the top cylinder.
The carb comes of pretty easily, but there is an orange/yellow insert in the induction point.....can anyone who has done the conversion, advise me on how to get rid of this thing?
Regards
So after todays flight, I started stripping the motor to do the moris mini walbro conversion, set the valve gaps and put new plugs. Some interesting obeservations I made....
No 1 cylinder valve gaps are larger than the others and the rocker areas are quite 'dry' in comparison with the other two. This means that for sure there is less lubrication happening on the top cylinder.
The carb comes of pretty easily, but there is an orange/yellow insert in the induction point.....can anyone who has done the conversion, advise me on how to get rid of this thing?
Regards
05-28-2016, 12:27 AM
#682
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Shultz
my two penny worth...and my opinion only (having previously owned a FG 36..).
if you...
1. Have airframes you care about.
2. Want to fly them frequently without becoming your own ground crew
maintaining and modifying engines.
3. Do not want to become unpaid R&D for a well known manufacturer who
should have ensured their product was fit for service before release.
assuming that the answer to any of the above is yes then buy your DA/DLE or whatever
two stroke engine you normally use and have faith in.
Fit - go fly - and be happy.
happy landings
AM6.
my two penny worth...and my opinion only (having previously owned a FG 36..).
if you...
1. Have airframes you care about.
2. Want to fly them frequently without becoming your own ground crew
maintaining and modifying engines.
3. Do not want to become unpaid R&D for a well known manufacturer who
should have ensured their product was fit for service before release.
assuming that the answer to any of the above is yes then buy your DA/DLE or whatever
two stroke engine you normally use and have faith in.
Fit - go fly - and be happy.
happy landings
AM6.
05-28-2016, 09:14 AM
#683
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Location: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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AM6,
those three things have nothing to do with why people by an expensive radial engine.
But yeah, they are not for everyone..only reasons why I wouldn't by a new one if
Mine failed, is because I could t afford it...
those three things have nothing to do with why people by an expensive radial engine.
But yeah, they are not for everyone..only reasons why I wouldn't by a new one if
Mine failed, is because I could t afford it...
05-28-2016, 11:12 AM
#684
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valid points, opinion appreciated, my go to engines are zenoah g62 or the da, some old fujis. but i would prefer some radial in my life, just at that cost i can easily swing multiply engines of the other makes, but like mentioned about those not being reasons is because they dont have that radial sound. just trying to make an educated decision. thank you
05-28-2016, 11:55 AM
#685
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This engine is actually hitting a sweet spot in terms of price. In Europe, most of us cannot use stock muffler of 2 stroke engines because of strict noise emission restrictions. We need to install a high quality muffler and generally for this class of engine you will end up paying 6-700 euros easily. So, one can easily bite the bullet and pay a bit more and get awesome 4stroke sound and promise of 10-15 years of engine life and quality of saito. Not to mention going through the hell of installing a canister into an arf.
But at the end, quality and reliability is not there, I was always worried while flying, which is already killing most of the fun for me. My recommendation is wait until there is a clear explanation and fix for the failures or reports that failures are isolated cases. You can save towards a moki, too :-)
But at the end, quality and reliability is not there, I was always worried while flying, which is already killing most of the fun for me. My recommendation is wait until there is a clear explanation and fix for the failures or reports that failures are isolated cases. You can save towards a moki, too :-)
Last edited by scubaozy; 05-29-2016 at 10:51 AM.
05-28-2016, 06:16 PM
#686
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it needs to be fun seeing for me it is a hobby, and i dont want stress, its suppose to be a stress relief. i would gladly save for a moki, but moki prices are more for my car hobby. i just have a hankering for a radial, but these cases and this thread have turned me away, i have read that people are happy with the fg84(not RE modified) but that is too big for the cowl in the TF p47 that i am finishing at the moment. so thats where the 60 came into mind.
EDIT: also, i submitted a question on HH website under the fg60 q&a section about the known head issue, and for me at least the entire q&a section is not longer accessible, nor did i get a response to the email i had to submit to ask the question.
EDIT: also, i submitted a question on HH website under the fg60 q&a section about the known head issue, and for me at least the entire q&a section is not longer accessible, nor did i get a response to the email i had to submit to ask the question.
05-29-2016, 09:36 AM
#687
My Feedback: (2)
I haven't run my engine yet so I can't say as to another purchase or not. I did call Horizon about the warranty.
They told me they would make a note that I called haven't used the engine yet.
Who knows if that will really influence anything if the time comes in the future to use the warranty.
They told me they would make a note that I called haven't used the engine yet.
Who knows if that will really influence anything if the time comes in the future to use the warranty.
05-29-2016, 01:14 PM
#688
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So......the fight continues on. Getting closer to flying this engine in a Topflite Zero. Cowling is almost finished, did install a louvre aft of No.1 cylinder, just didn't feel comfortable with the exit area for airflow at the top. Had run the engine on the frame without cowling about a week ago, went well. Went to run it yesterday and it started o.k, idled just fine, but would not accelerate above 3500 rpm. Just died off or started to hunt 2500 - 4500 rpm, and then die. No amount of fiddling with needle jets would change this. I guess I have to remove the engine from the frame and remove the carburettor to see if it has sucked some crap. Shouldn't have, but then it is an open air intake with no screen and it does suck air from inside the fuselage cavity which has had some work done in it so some bits and pieces might still be loose in that area. I always vacumn out the area after working in there, but might not have got all the crap out.
Any other ideas? Pretty sure the carburettor is the place to start.
Edit: I'm not saying this is the fault of the engine (although it might be yet!!). I mean, if a carby sucks crap you can't expect the engine to run well. Just annoyed because I had this running so well, then next week it's not running!!!! One step forward, two steps back!!!
Any other ideas? Pretty sure the carburettor is the place to start.
Edit: I'm not saying this is the fault of the engine (although it might be yet!!). I mean, if a carby sucks crap you can't expect the engine to run well. Just annoyed because I had this running so well, then next week it's not running!!!! One step forward, two steps back!!!
Last edited by ALFIEV; 05-29-2016 at 01:23 PM.
05-29-2016, 10:13 PM
#689
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Check also plumbing, if the fuel line is bent it will not get enough fuel. I also remember reading that too long fuel lines aren't recommended due lack of effective fuel pump. I would also re-check right plug is in right cylinder and they're seated well.
05-30-2016, 11:45 AM
#690
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Yeah, will check the fuel lines out scubaozy. Just strange that it was running fine on the frame one week, week or two later it has an issue, nothing in the plumbing or wiring has been changed.
05-31-2016, 04:41 AM
#691
My Feedback: (3)
Shultz, I'm running the FG60R3 with a Keleo exhaust ring in my Top Flite P47 Tarheel Hal. I have 13 x 8min flights on it so far and I love it. It draws a huge crowd at the field, everyone stops and lines up on the fence to see it fly. Its a real joy to fly. The plane is so stable and easy to fly its crazy. It hauls ass with the FG60R3 and I fly around usually at half throttle.
So far I have had zero trouble. Actually last night was the first time it started running anything but smooth. It could be because the gas I put in it was the last tank of the gallon I had mixed up, maybe it was heavy on the oil side because of that, who knows, but it was sounding rich. So I'll mix some new gas up and if it still sounds rich then I will just lean it a few clicks and I'm sure it will be fine.
I pressurize the tank through the vent line with a fuel bulb and it starts on 1 or 2 flips with my hand every time. My cylinder temps are all over the place, but who cares, it flies and runs great.
I'm very happy with mine so far. Of course if I blow a jug off and ruin my plane I'll have a different opinion, but other than that I see no reason to not own one of these. You should be fairly mechanically experienced though with this engine. I don't think its for someone who isn't proficient with how they work and how they tune.
I'll post some videos some people took of me flying it yesterday at the field soon. Thanks.
So far I have had zero trouble. Actually last night was the first time it started running anything but smooth. It could be because the gas I put in it was the last tank of the gallon I had mixed up, maybe it was heavy on the oil side because of that, who knows, but it was sounding rich. So I'll mix some new gas up and if it still sounds rich then I will just lean it a few clicks and I'm sure it will be fine.
I pressurize the tank through the vent line with a fuel bulb and it starts on 1 or 2 flips with my hand every time. My cylinder temps are all over the place, but who cares, it flies and runs great.
I'm very happy with mine so far. Of course if I blow a jug off and ruin my plane I'll have a different opinion, but other than that I see no reason to not own one of these. You should be fairly mechanically experienced though with this engine. I don't think its for someone who isn't proficient with how they work and how they tune.
I'll post some videos some people took of me flying it yesterday at the field soon. Thanks.
it needs to be fun seeing for me it is a hobby, and i dont want stress, its suppose to be a stress relief. i would gladly save for a moki, but moki prices are more for my car hobby. i just have a hankering for a radial, but these cases and this thread have turned me away, i have read that people are happy with the fg84(not RE modified) but that is too big for the cowl in the TF p47 that i am finishing at the moment. so thats where the 60 came into mind.
EDIT: also, i submitted a question on HH website under the fg60 q&a section about the known head issue, and for me at least the entire q&a section is not longer accessible, nor did i get a response to the email i had to submit to ask the question.
EDIT: also, i submitted a question on HH website under the fg60 q&a section about the known head issue, and for me at least the entire q&a section is not longer accessible, nor did i get a response to the email i had to submit to ask the question.
05-31-2016, 12:06 PM
#692
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Hey Timbers,
It's great to hear some entirely positive comments about this engine in use. I hope I can get a similar run out of mine. I'm sure I'll find the cause of my loss of top end rpm and hunting. Almost certain it's going to be fuel/air/carburettor.
It's great to hear some entirely positive comments about this engine in use. I hope I can get a similar run out of mine. I'm sure I'll find the cause of my loss of top end rpm and hunting. Almost certain it's going to be fuel/air/carburettor.
05-31-2016, 12:58 PM
#693
Check and make sure the O ring in in place between the carb and intake manifold there is supposed to be two, one inside the carb where it mounts on the bushing and another between the carb, manifold. Mine was missing the carb to manifold o ring and it caused it to go out of tune.
05-31-2016, 04:31 PM
#694
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Shultz, I'm running the FG60R3 with a Keleo exhaust ring in my Top Flite P47 Tarheel Hal. I have 13 x 8min flights on it so far and I love it. It draws a huge crowd at the field, everyone stops and lines up on the fence to see it fly. Its a real joy to fly. The plane is so stable and easy to fly its crazy. It hauls ass with the FG60R3 and I fly around usually at half throttle.
So far I have had zero trouble. Actually last night was the first time it started running anything but smooth. It could be because the gas I put in it was the last tank of the gallon I had mixed up, maybe it was heavy on the oil side because of that, who knows, but it was sounding rich. So I'll mix some new gas up and if it still sounds rich then I will just lean it a few clicks and I'm sure it will be fine.
I pressurize the tank through the vent line with a fuel bulb and it starts on 1 or 2 flips with my hand every time. My cylinder temps are all over the place, but who cares, it flies and runs great.
I'm very happy with mine so far. Of course if I blow a jug off and ruin my plane I'll have a different opinion, but other than that I see no reason to not own one of these. You should be fairly mechanically experienced though with this engine. I don't think its for someone who isn't proficient with how they work and how they tune.
I'll post some videos some people took of me flying it yesterday at the field soon. Thanks.
So far I have had zero trouble. Actually last night was the first time it started running anything but smooth. It could be because the gas I put in it was the last tank of the gallon I had mixed up, maybe it was heavy on the oil side because of that, who knows, but it was sounding rich. So I'll mix some new gas up and if it still sounds rich then I will just lean it a few clicks and I'm sure it will be fine.
I pressurize the tank through the vent line with a fuel bulb and it starts on 1 or 2 flips with my hand every time. My cylinder temps are all over the place, but who cares, it flies and runs great.
I'm very happy with mine so far. Of course if I blow a jug off and ruin my plane I'll have a different opinion, but other than that I see no reason to not own one of these. You should be fairly mechanically experienced though with this engine. I don't think its for someone who isn't proficient with how they work and how they tune.
I'll post some videos some people took of me flying it yesterday at the field soon. Thanks.
06-01-2016, 04:14 AM
#695
My Feedback: (13)
Shultz, I'm running the FG60R3 with a Keleo exhaust ring in my Top Flite P47 Tarheel Hal. I have 13 x 8min flights on it so far and I love it. It draws a huge crowd at the field, everyone stops and lines up on the fence to see it fly. Its a real joy to fly. The plane is so stable and easy to fly its crazy. It hauls ass with the FG60R3 and I fly around usually at half throttle.
So far I have had zero trouble. Actually last night was the first time it started running anything but smooth. It could be because the gas I put in it was the last tank of the gallon I had mixed up, maybe it was heavy on the oil side because of that, who knows, but it was sounding rich. So I'll mix some new gas up and if it still sounds rich then I will just lean it a few clicks and I'm sure it will be fine.
I pressurize the tank through the vent line with a fuel bulb and it starts on 1 or 2 flips with my hand every time. My cylinder temps are all over the place, but who cares, it flies and runs great.
I'm very happy with mine so far. Of course if I blow a jug off and ruin my plane I'll have a different opinion, but other than that I see no reason to not own one of these. You should be fairly mechanically experienced though with this engine. I don't think its for someone who isn't proficient with how they work and how they tune.
I'll post some videos some people took of me flying it yesterday at the field soon. Thanks.
So far I have had zero trouble. Actually last night was the first time it started running anything but smooth. It could be because the gas I put in it was the last tank of the gallon I had mixed up, maybe it was heavy on the oil side because of that, who knows, but it was sounding rich. So I'll mix some new gas up and if it still sounds rich then I will just lean it a few clicks and I'm sure it will be fine.
I pressurize the tank through the vent line with a fuel bulb and it starts on 1 or 2 flips with my hand every time. My cylinder temps are all over the place, but who cares, it flies and runs great.
I'm very happy with mine so far. Of course if I blow a jug off and ruin my plane I'll have a different opinion, but other than that I see no reason to not own one of these. You should be fairly mechanically experienced though with this engine. I don't think its for someone who isn't proficient with how they work and how they tune.
I'll post some videos some people took of me flying it yesterday at the field soon. Thanks.
06-06-2016, 11:23 AM
#696
My Feedback: (3)
1. On the first flight of the day, I fuel up my main tank. I then take a rubber fuel bulb (left over from my RC car days) and hook it up to the vent line of the tank, which I have exiting through the bottom of the fuselage using tygon fuel line.
2. I make sure my ignition is off, I open the throttle to full, and I look inside the cowl to see the tygon fuel line that goes from my tank to my carb. I can see its empty. So I push on the fuel bulb and watch the fuel flow up the line towards the carb. As soon as it hits the carb I push for maybe another second or two. I can hear air clearing out of the line, and the tension on my fuel bulb gets firmer as the fuel hits the carb. You can tell when its there...
3. Then I close the throttle, remove the fuel bulb, turn the ignition on and flip it 2-3 times and it starts.
4. If I can't get it to start, I redo this procedure, just putting a little pressure on the fuel bulb, and maybe count to 2 seconds....
I haven't flooded it at all using this procedure, its worked very well for me.
Hope that helps.
Heres a pic of what my fuel bulb looks like.
06-06-2016, 12:05 PM
#697
Both Focke Wulfs here have the FG-60. Yes, we would buy it again;
We allways use a starter on them, since there are no choke.
Just remember to put 20ml oil into the crankcase before the very first start.
There is no lube there, then. They come completely dry.
L-needle; 6.5 ( !!)
H-needle; 1.5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AGdihDBCco
We allways use a starter on them, since there are no choke.
Just remember to put 20ml oil into the crankcase before the very first start.
There is no lube there, then. They come completely dry.
L-needle; 6.5 ( !!)
H-needle; 1.5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AGdihDBCco
Last edited by kwik; 06-06-2016 at 12:16 PM.
06-06-2016, 12:18 PM
#698
06-06-2016, 02:54 PM
#699
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Yes thanks kwik, I will have a good look at that.
Watched your video of the Dora-9. Looks and sounds great!! Did you install baffles within the cowling? Any other modifications to the cowling to allow better cooling?
A question for all who contribute here. I have just wound the high-speed needle all the way out and removed it as part of my carburettor inspection. There is no o-ring on it. Is there meant to be an o-ring on it, or is the o-ring meant to be sitting in a recess within the carburettor body? I'm guessing it sits within the body but will need to get a strong torch to allow enough light for me to see inside the orfice the high-speed needle winds into. Just wondering if this o-ring has become dislodged and could leak air into the mixture causing a lean condition.
Watched your video of the Dora-9. Looks and sounds great!! Did you install baffles within the cowling? Any other modifications to the cowling to allow better cooling?
A question for all who contribute here. I have just wound the high-speed needle all the way out and removed it as part of my carburettor inspection. There is no o-ring on it. Is there meant to be an o-ring on it, or is the o-ring meant to be sitting in a recess within the carburettor body? I'm guessing it sits within the body but will need to get a strong torch to allow enough light for me to see inside the orfice the high-speed needle winds into. Just wondering if this o-ring has become dislodged and could leak air into the mixture causing a lean condition.
Last edited by ALFIEV; 06-06-2016 at 02:57 PM.