radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

My engine always needs the choke for the first cold start. After the first run the engine often starts again without choking. On a warm restart if the engine doesn't fire off in 1-2 flips I do put the choke on and give it a couple of flips. I can't see how anything adverse could happen? Everyone here says the engine needs a choke for the first start...just different ways of doing it.

Basically all my gassers start the same...choke on, flip until engine pops; choke off, flip until engine starts.

kevarc

My Feedback: (2)

Hello
I am finishing a giant scale top flite P51 with a DLE61, my first gas motor. I was fortunate enough to also win a Hanger 9 60cc Corsair ready to fly with the FG-60r3! Probably maiden them the same day, yikes. Anyway my question is the FG calls for a 15 to 20:1 fuel oil mix. The DLE calls for 30:1. Would it be OK to use the 30:1 mix in the FG, or should I mix two batches?
Thanks
Kevin

Timbers

My Feedback: (3)

Engine manufacturer Saito says 15:1 to 20:1. It needs the heavier oil because it doesn't have roller bearings in the connecting rods, only bushings. I'd stick with what the manual says and not experiment.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

I have two fuel cans in my trailer. One marked "Saito Only, 20:1" the other marked "40:1". I try not to confuse the two. I don't think it would be advisable to use 30:1 in the Saito.

kevarc

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks, I was looking at this backwards. The 20:1 is more oil than the 30:1. So if anything maybe the DLE could run on the 20:1. Ordering another fuel can in any case. Thanks
Kevin

cathurga

Kev, yeah, don't run the radial on 30:1, especially if it is new. You will most likely wreck it. Also, if it is new, go through the break in procedure in the manual, and this thread. Lots of good info on breaking in. I suspect that the Fg60R3 is not enough engine for that Corsair....it will fly I reckon, but you will be on the edge all the time. Also depends on how light the plane has been built. The FG84 seems to be de-facto for that plane. Nice win either way!
You probably wont do any harm running the DLE on 20:1, but you will likely lose some performance, probably have a lot of goop being splattered out as unburned fuel, and plug and piston may carbon up more than you need. Get the second can as you mentioned....much better idea. If the DLE is new, run it on 32:1 for the first tank, and then change it to 40:1. We all use redline oil at our club, and follow the same procedure...never seen one die as a result...
BTW, I didn't mean run the DLE on 32:1 by breaking in on the ground, just put fuel, tune it slightly rich and fly it for the first tank. Then switch to 40:1, tune it up to around optimum and you're golden....

GalenB

My Feedback: (18)

I have my Saito FG-60 R3 mounted in my Seagull Lysander and am using a Keleo exhaust ring. I have a couple of questions about this engine and exhaust ring combo.

1. Is there a consensus around using the supplied hose fitting to pressurize the tank instead of venting normally? This does simplify routing the vent line in my install...

2. The plug caps for cylinders #2 and #3 are quite close to the exhaust ring whilst #1 has more clearance... Is this normal?

3. The crankcase vent -- has anyone considered putting, or actually put, a hose fitting near the end the exhaust pipe and connected the crankcase vent to that fitting? In theory, this seems like a good idea and has the benefit of helping to blow the gunk from the crankcase out with the exhaust instead of having dribble onto the bottom of your plane. The only issue of which I can think, is how to actually mount the hose fitting as the material in the exhaust pipe is too thin for standard threaded hose fittings... Perhaps JB Welding a small aluminum plate into which the screw the hose fitting will suffice...

TIA for your comments and thoughts on my questions above.

Here are some pics of my not quite done installation...

scubaozy

I am using normal vent and works perfectly fine. I have seen someone drilling/tapping the exhaust pipe and screwing in the supplied nipple there. I think it is a very good idea and is in my to do list. I had to shorten the securing clips to get the plug caps into the place. Yes, it is very tight with keleo.

Timbers

My Feedback: (3)

Wouldn't this affect pressures though? That crankcase is pulsing in pressure which is enough to blow crud out of the crank case breather. So you hook that up to another system that is also pressurized "your exhaust system", wouldn't that possibly cause some issues? If theres pressure now going against the crankcase breather, that could cause the crankcase to not vent properly.

I could be wrong, but just thinking about it, I don't think its a good idea.

I leave about a 4" piece of tygon hanging out of my plane for my breather, and it works fine. People even comment "hey somethings hanging from your plane!" I said yah thats my crankcase breather!

SWORDSN

My Feedback: (13)

There are no instructions about adding pressure to the tank.I think the fitting on the Keleo ring is for smoke.

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

No consensus, but here is my previous post...

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

looks fantastic

SWORDSN

My Feedback: (13)

Good to know about the pressure fitting. Thanks

kwik

Exactly. No need for pressure fitting. The carb has an internal pump, remember??

This is not a glow engine.

Kahu1958

A few weeks ago I got some video of Alf's Saito FG-60R3 powered Zero. Second flight for this plane I think. Sounds beautiful.

https://youtu.be/17fbIf8eY5g

cathurga

I think what is being said, is that Ray English 'suggests' this as the carb pumping action is apparently not as effective as it should be. I would use a little tank pressurisation to get a more even flow, if that's what it took. It even says in the manual that the the pump is not too powerful and that you should mount the tank as close to the engines as possible.
In some observations I mentioned earlier, on the test stand, I had the tank higher than the carb, and fuel was siphoning out and dripping out the carb mouth, I also mounted it lower than the carb and it did draw fuel up, but there were bubbles forming in the fuel line, and when the lines were empty, it was VERY difficult to get fuel flowing to it. Once fuel is at the carb, it was ok.
In my plane, the tank is level with the carb and it worked out ok, but it did seem to lean out a bit.
I am not opposed to using some pressure to keep things good, but I am concerned about pressurising a tank with volatile fuel in it, from a hot exhaust...I know it may be nearly impossible to ignite the fuel in the tank, but hey, one good back fire and there may be a spark to 'derail' a day's flying..! Possible?

It is way too hot here in Dubai at the moment, and I am not comfortable running this engine in the heat, will put it on blocks untl we get some reasonable weather...

kwik

Strange. In my D9 the tank is just in front of the canopy, under the gunhood.

It is quite a distance from there, and all the way up front to the engine.

Works like a charm. The only problem is that it takes quite some flipping the get the petrol drawn all the way from the tank to the engine, if the plane has been unused for a while.

Therefore I just bypass that problem by using a starter. At least on the first start of the day.

Runs like a clock, that engine.

All standard setup, everywhere. No magic healing was neccessary.

ALFIEV

Hey "Kahu 1958" thanks for posting the video! It turned out waaay better than the one on my smartphone, shame the sun was such a PITA!. For those who may be interested, I believe the tuning was just a little off, just a tad on the rich side. Still had plenty of power for this frame, and ran really well excepting the odd puff of smoke and miss when the speed was increased.
Landing look a bit fast? Yeah, was only half flaps, will experiment with full flap next time, just fixing the rather expensive Robart gear that appears to have extremely soft pins in it. Wasn't a fantastic landing as far as I'm concerned, but the landing gear was not inexpensive and should have handled that. Plenty of talk on other forums about the Robart gear and it's failings on these TF Giant scale models!!!!

cathurga

Alfie. Look into Electron retracts. You won't look back!

ALFIEV

Hey cathurga, thanks for that, I had a look, I guess the Evo40 would be about right. Interesting looking gear.

Kahu1958

Hi AlfieV, I would not try to land much slower with this model until you are a lot more familiar with its slow speed handling and stall characteristics, I thought it looked slow but it is hard to tell looking through the camera. It will be a fairly heavy model with heavy engine, retracts and lots of servos which will mean a higher wing loading than the normal sport model or scale models without retracts.
Very impressive model, good luck with it. Hope you get the landing gear sorted okay.

cathurga

Alfie, I have the Evo40's in my BH typhoon which is a little smaller but the retracts are more than enough. The new electrons have 'square' cut threads on the spindle which make them tougher and quicker. They really are the benchmark in my opinion. The new brake controllers have gyro assisted breaking which the jet guys at our field use, they love them.
When you get to the costs associated with big scale planes, there's no skimping! It's very reassuring going flying without having to worry about retracts.

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

Didn't think possible! I'll check out Electron - Thanks for the heads up!

BDKelly

Hi Cathurga and Kwik,

I've got some recent successful experience now with getting fuel to the tank and using the Keleo tap to the vent line.

First, the tap will melt regular gasoline fuel tube. So, Keleo suggested using some silicone tubing locally. I used a couple inches and then transitioned it to gasoline-proof tubing on its way to the tank vent, which loops all the way aft to the back of the tank then forward to the tank vent fitting, aerobatic style. I cannot fuel the plane by waiting for fuel to dribble out the exhaust though, because the silicone tubing isn't compatible with gas. So, I have to be able to see the tank while fueling and be sure not to fill it all the way up.

Second, the pressure tap will spew black stuff all over the inside of the cowl if you don't put hi temp RTV, the red stuff, on the threads and goop it around the area. I did this and now it works!

And I have a new trick for getting the fuel to the carb. Starts on the 2nd or third flip reliably. I use a Dubro fueler in the vent line. (The metal version, intended for gas). This thing ordinarily goes between the tank and carb and shuts off one-way when the fueling fitting is inserted and sends fuel to the tank, without flooding the carb. In the vent line, I use it to pump AIR into the tank with a fuel bulb (thanks for that idea), thus pressurizing the tank a little. It doesn't take much. One gentle squeeze. Too much and it floods the carb.

As to explosion risk for putting the vent line to the Keleo, People have done this for years with glow engines with no problem. Perhaps putting a fuel filter in the line might act as a sort of spark arrestor. I've been thinking of doing that anyway, because in my glow days we did this to keep soot from getting into the tank. But gasoline has a much lower flash point temperature (-50C) than methanol (+12C) according to my google search, so one might guess the risk is higher for gas even though we operate above the flash point for both fuels.

BDKelly

Alvie V,

marksp posted a video of my plane on youtube. You can see I'm coming in hot too, because I'm still a bit scared of the stall on this one. Wing loading is 42 oz/square foot, about the same as most of the Top Flite warbirds.

https://youtu.be/wcDaIee3Igs

It helped me a lot to get the idle on the Saito R60 down to about 1600. It also helps a lot to trim the airplane in "slow flight" with flaps and gear in landing position, at the speed you want to use on the approach. This is like full scale flying, whether Cessna 150 or 747. Some RC pilots don't like to do this and prefer feel some back pressure on the elevator stick as they fly slower during the approach. Either way, get used to the feel of the airplane in slow flight, and get comfortable with feel of the stall in landing configuration.

My two cents.