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Saito FG-60R3

Old 09-12-2016, 10:42 AM
  #876  
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Originally Posted by aquaskiman
there are two ways you can correctly set timing 1 with a degree wheel and timing light 2 a degree wheel and a tester that tells you when the plug fires. Next time I have my cowl off my Zero I will check the timing and post results. I have checked many singles and have not found even one that is timed right.
I will be interested to see your report, George.
Old 09-14-2016, 01:22 PM
  #877  
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Hi guys, been working on baffling. I have a TM1000 and get "live" feed back temperature on my DX8. I think it is 10* off because my inferred temp gun was reading 10* cooler. I made a baffle to fit around the FG-60 and tight on the inside of the cowling. A test flight showed that it was getting up to 332* with some full throttle action. I have done some more mods to my a baffle. Even though I was diligent to make the baffle as close to the engine as possible, I still had some gaps. So I used a sheet of craft foam stuff and glued it to the back of the baffle so that it laid on each side of each cylinder. I also used it to close a gap I had at the bottom of the cowling. I also added a piece in front of the exhaust exit hole to create a low pressure area to draw hot air out. I test flew this and without any other changes it dropped temp down to 319-324*. On Sunday I picked up some exhaust header wrap. I could only find 1 inch x 50 feet. I only used 6 foot of it to cover just the ring not the tubes coming from the heads. I did 3 test flights and non got over 309* with long periods of full throttle. I'm happy with the results this far.
Old 09-18-2016, 04:02 PM
  #878  
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Originally Posted by luckymacy
Whats the distance from the firewall to the front of the cowl? Is there a built in option to mount the rudder servo in the tail or is there enough material in the rear to do it yourself?
Macy, the distance from the firewall to the front of the cowl is about 5 inches (it ranges from 4-7/8 to 5-1/16, since the firewall is angled for right thrust). That means the firewall is a little over 1.5 inches too long for the FG60R3. I will take this over to the other thread on the Yak, since this one is about the engine... we can discuss it further, over there.
Old 09-20-2016, 03:30 PM
  #879  
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Originally Posted by slither
Macy, the distance from the firewall to the front of the cowl is about 5 inches (it ranges from 4-7/8 to 5-1/16, since the firewall is angled for right thrust). That means the firewall is a little over 1.5 inches too long for the FG60R3. I will take this over to the other thread on the Yak, since this one is about the engine... we can discuss it further, over there.
Send me a link to your other thread. If we did get the same Yak kit you must be measuring something wrong as I only needed a couple of normal washers to adequately clear the cowl just as Tom Hintz reported on his web site with his Yak. However, in the end, I decided to go with a different engine on the Yak. I'll save the Saito for something else scale but not requiring a lot of power to fly scale well. Maybe a WWII paint scheme Reliant like this http://texasrcplanes.com/stre10gonor.html

I'm totally not happy with how the Saito flies the TF P-47. The previous engine I had on the P-47 was a lot more fun for my style of flying. To each his own as they say.
Old 09-21-2016, 09:33 AM
  #880  
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PM sent, Macy. If anyone else is interested, the link is posted above...

Others in that thread have made similar comments. I suspect you got a newer version of the kit, as your box is different, as well.
Old 10-08-2016, 10:47 AM
  #881  
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Hi guys,

ive had my Saito for a few weeks but ran it for the first time today, this is my first radial and I'm looking for some reassurance!
i started with the low needle 8 turns out, high 4 turns, it started easily and I ran it between 3800-4300rpm for 1.2 litres of fuel (15:1), after this I began to try and lean out a little, I ended with a situation where the engine runs well up to about 1/2-2/3 throttle then at WOT the revs drop and it seems to lose power, the strange thing is the high speed needle seems to have little or no effect, the engine starts easily but seems to misfire a lot on cylinders #2 and #3

i know this isn't an obvious problem I'm just trying to be as cautious as possible with the engine and I've read a lot that "the low speed needle is dominant", does this mean using it to get rid of mid-high range running problems?

also I pulled out the plugs after 1 litre and #3 cylinder appears to have done no running, it was clean, is this normal for rich run in?

thanks
joe

Last edited by Joe1199; 10-08-2016 at 10:50 AM.
Old 10-08-2016, 12:34 PM
  #882  
BobH
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Don't they recommend 20/1 mix for break in? Mine does.
Maybe your issues are related to excessive oil content.
Old 10-08-2016, 12:54 PM
  #883  
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I can can try and help. I remember reading earlier in this thread about guys losing rpm at full throttle. Search the thread and you should find them. In my experience, which consists of breaking and about 35 x 1-14minute flights in the airplane now, I can tell you that the difference between half-throttle and full throttle in the air is nothing. In fact I fly around the entire flight at 1/2-3/4th throttle When I give it full throttle in the air it does seem to lose rpm for me too.

it must just be the carb on these engines. I haven't let it bother me as it seems to run just fine at 1/2-3/4th.

what prop and rpm do you get at half-throttle? If you are running a 22x10 and getting 6500-6800 out of it at 1/2 to 3/4ths throttle then I'd be happy with that. Unless its really stumbling bad at full? Maybe upload us a video.

How can you tell cylinders 2 and 3 are misfiring?

15:1 to 20:1 is what the manual states so he's fine on oil.





Originally Posted by Joe1199
Hi guys,

ive had my Saito for a few weeks but ran it for the first time today, this is my first radial and I'm looking for some reassurance!
i started with the low needle 8 turns out, high 4 turns, it started easily and I ran it between 3800-4300rpm for 1.2 litres of fuel (15:1), after this I began to try and lean out a little, I ended with a situation where the engine runs well up to about 1/2-2/3 throttle then at WOT the revs drop and it seems to lose power, the strange thing is the high speed needle seems to have little or no effect, the engine starts easily but seems to misfire a lot on cylinders #2 and #3

i know this isn't an obvious problem I'm just trying to be as cautious as possible with the engine and I've read a lot that "the low speed needle is dominant", does this mean using it to get rid of mid-high range running problems?

also I pulled out the plugs after 1 litre and #3 cylinder appears to have done no running, it was clean, is this normal for rich run in?

thanks
joe
Old 10-08-2016, 01:05 PM
  #884  
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Thanks for your reply, it seems to run well until maybe the last 1/5 when the power noses over?? Which does relate to what you are saying, my tachometer seemed to be inaccurate for some reason after I did my break in running which is another reason why I didn't want to carry on running today.

I leaned off my low end to 6.5 turns but the engine would only run for a few seconds after being choked (obviously too lean) I richened it until it would idle but was hesitant to lean the top end without a tacho, my high needle is probably 2.5-3 turns which reading other reports seems quite high (some are as low as 1.1/4)

i know cylinders are not running balanced as temps are very different

the run in tanks were stupidly rich, lots of black residue and excess oil, but I can't see this being bad for the initial run in

thanks

joe
Old 10-08-2016, 01:09 PM
  #885  
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The FG60 manual says 15:1 for breakin.

Once the engine is broken in the low speed needle has a much bigger effect than the high speed needle. Adjust the low speed needle for good idle and good transition to high rpm. Adjust the high speed needle for best peak rpm (lean to peak and then richen just a little).
Old 10-11-2016, 10:57 PM
  #886  
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Hi Joe. What you experience at WOT is normal for a new FG-60R3. The tolarances are still tight around the bottom cylinders while the mixture is not optimal, that's why the engine bogs down at top speed - it will take upwards of 4 liters to free-up and careful tuning.

If you take some time to read the Radial Engines thread as well, this would help explain some things:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-...l#post11955975

Just to give you a hint: not all cylinders fire at all tunes and all rpms. Only at the "optimum tune" will Nos 2 and 3 fire consistently (No.1 is always lean, thus does not "blubber" at all usually). Now, when at WOT the bottom cylinders start waking up, they heat up and the pistons expand - friction forces go through the roof (for an unbroken in engine) and the rpm bogs down. Tune it by temps (if possible), optimise the Low, then give it some time to free up, it will reward you.

BR,
Hector.


Originally Posted by Joe1199
Hi guys,

ive had my Saito for a few weeks but ran it for the first time today, this is my first radial and I'm looking for some reassurance!
i started with the low needle 8 turns out, high 4 turns, it started easily and I ran it between 3800-4300rpm for 1.2 litres of fuel (15:1), after this I began to try and lean out a little, I ended with a situation where the engine runs well up to about 1/2-2/3 throttle then at WOT the revs drop and it seems to lose power, the strange thing is the high speed needle seems to have little or no effect, the engine starts easily but seems to misfire a lot on cylinders #2 and #3

i know this isn't an obvious problem I'm just trying to be as cautious as possible with the engine and I've read a lot that "the low speed needle is dominant", does this mean using it to get rid of mid-high range running problems?

also I pulled out the plugs after 1 litre and #3 cylinder appears to have done no running, it was clean, is this normal for rich run in?

thanks
joe
Old 10-12-2016, 04:01 AM
  #887  
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Hi Hector,

thanks for your reply, you have made some very good points, i was planning on putting the engine in the model (also a TF FW190) and flying but i think i will carry on running in for a bit longer.
i have run about 2.5 litres though the engine now and although it starts and runs well there is a flat spot in the mid range where cylinders are obviously dropping and the engine vibrates quite a lot, a bit more than i would like to see in flight in the airframe.

would you recommend roatating the engine on the bench and running 2 tanks at rich setting to bed each cylinder? i think i read before your theory on this, also can you give me a rough max temp of the no 1 cylinder at its max lean point (safest running temp), i have a laser heat gun and a single high temp sensor on my telemetry, i understand you have probably gone over all this a thousand times so im sorry, im at work at the moment so cannot read though the whole radial thread, i will do later on.

thanks for your help

Joe
Old 10-12-2016, 01:22 PM
  #888  
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Joe, rotating the engine on the stand helps accelerate the bedding in of the lower cylinders. You would need 1 tank per cylinder (0.5lt). Max safe No.1 temps are about 200C, but beware of the IR thermometers - that are not accurate! Best if you only trust the contact probe.

In your shoes, I would take out the plugs and check them for fouling and/or gaps. Finally, you should reset the valves after about this time, the initial wear spoils the gapping there as well. Just make sure you are at the TDC of the firing cycle when adjusting (as opposed to the TDC of the exhaust cycle).

Do all that, then try to tune the engine by temps @ 75% throttle until there is no cylinder dropouts and go fly. Oh, and by the way, check your ignition battery can provide all the current necessary at high rpm settings (there is a firing pulse at all 3 cylinders per engine turn!). If using a NiCD, consider switching to a LiPo just to check - misfires can also occur due to the ignition.

BR,
Hector.

Last edited by hpergm; 10-12-2016 at 01:25 PM.
Old 10-12-2016, 01:48 PM
  #889  
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Originally Posted by Joe1199
Hi Hector,

thanks for your reply, you have made some very good points, i was planning on putting the engine in the model (also a TF FW190) and flying but i think i will carry on running in for a bit longer.
I expect you're going to need all the power you can get from the FG60 in that plane. The FG60 puts out much less power than a 55cc two stroke.
Old 10-12-2016, 07:37 PM
  #890  
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Originally Posted by radfordc
I expect you're going to need all the power you can get from the FG60 in that plane. The FG60 puts out much less power than a 55cc two stroke.
It's interesting...plenty of YouTube videos of TopFlite P-47 and TopFlite Zeros w/FG-60R3, but every TopFlite FW190 video that I've come across has the FG-84R3. Similar size, weight, etc. Wonder why???
Old 10-13-2016, 03:33 AM
  #891  
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Originally Posted by marksp
It's interesting...plenty of YouTube videos of TopFlite P-47 and TopFlite Zeros w/FG-60R3, but every TopFlite FW190 video that I've come across has the FG-84R3. Similar size, weight, etc. Wonder why???
The FG60R3 seems to be the engine of choice installed in the ESM and Sist FW-190D's. There are several videos on YT from Europe and the FG-60R3 seems to provide plenty of power to fly those 1/5 FW's. Watching those video's is the reason I purchased the FG-60R3 to install in my TF FW.
Old 10-13-2016, 04:48 AM
  #892  
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I know this is off topic but I enjoy my FG-60R3 so much that I was thinking of buying that tiny FG-19R3. Problem is I can't find any chatter about it online. There are only 3 or 4 Youtube videos on it. I wonder why its not popular? People probably feel its too heavy, too under-powered and maybe too expensive?

My FG60-R3 is powerful enough to fly my big warbird around, loops, rolls, etc. Thats all I'm really looking for. Has anyone else found anything about the FG-19R3, or know anyone running one?
Old 10-13-2016, 05:40 AM
  #893  
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Originally Posted by marksp
It's interesting...plenty of YouTube videos of TopFlite P-47 and TopFlite Zeros w/FG-60R3, but every TopFlite FW190 video that I've come across has the FG-84R3. Similar size, weight, etc. Wonder why???
A friend flys a TF FW-190 w/FG84 at a weight near 30 lbs! My TF P-47 w/FG60 weighs 22 lbs.
Old 10-13-2016, 05:42 AM
  #894  
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Originally Posted by ForcesR
The FG60R3 seems to be the engine of choice installed in the ESM and Sist FW-190D's. There are several videos on YT from Europe and the FG-60R3 seems to provide plenty of power to fly those 1/5 FW's. Watching those video's is the reason I purchased the FG-60R3 to install in my TF FW.
The FG60 should fly the 190 OK once it's well broken in. But, you won't be overpowered for sure.
Old 10-13-2016, 05:48 AM
  #895  
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Here is a video of an FW 190 with FG60: https://youtu.be/x_MYY0NlbQY

Flys just fine.
Old 10-15-2016, 03:03 AM
  #896  
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What is the spark plug gap on the fg60? The gap looks pretty big on my plugs so want to check them, could be a factor on why I can't see full throttle?

Is there a good replacement available in the UK?

thanks
Old 10-15-2016, 08:22 AM
  #897  
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Originally Posted by Joe1199
the strange thing is the high speed needle seems to have little or no effect, the engine starts easily but seems to misfire a lot on cylinders #2 and #3

I've read a lot that "the low speed needle is dominant", does this mean using it to get rid of mid-high range running problems?
After break in you want to set the high speed needle to peak rpm at full throttle; then go to low throttle and set the low speed needle as lean as possible while still being able to accelerate quickly. Then go back to high speed needle and set it as rich as possible that still gives you good rpms.
Old 10-16-2016, 12:59 PM
  #898  
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So..... the Topflite Zero is no more. Let it get too slow and too low on a landing approach and she just dropped a wing. No time to power up, no height with which to recover. Model is written off, not sure about the engine. Cant run it at the moment because the carburettor took a side-ways knock through the cowling via the high-speed needle extension. The upshot of that impact is that the "brittle" thermal insulating tube that seems to press into the rear cover of the engine and then fit into the carburettor has cracked through. As those who have attempted to remove the pressed portion (whilst trying to fit the Walbro carburettor mod) have reported, the portion that is "press" fitted into the rear cover is very difficult to remove. However, I have managed to get it out by removing the rear cover from the engine and careful dremel work to weaken the insulating tube and break it out.

O.K....so that has been achieved now I need a replacement part. The only place that seems to stock this is Horizon Hobby. You need to buy a "carburettor body" to get the insulating tube. Great, they have them in stock, and apparently they ship internationally using the much vaunted "Borderfree" system. Not so. It may ship to other countries, but when I tried to process my order to New Zealand it came up with an error message stating that they would not ship this item to New Zealand. Hard to know why. The bloody parts are small, lightweight, and relatively inexpensive. My opinion: Retarded!!!! (I would use stronger terms but will try to avoid upsetting anyone!!!)

Looked at RCJapan website, they have only a few parts listed. Not the part I need. Any other ideas?
Old 10-17-2016, 03:45 AM
  #899  
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That sucks! I had a similar thing go on last weekend but I still had time to goose the throttle to get the wing back up. Not sure what I'd do. I wonder if Saito themselves could provide you with that piece?

Originally Posted by ALFIEV
So..... the Topflite Zero is no more. Let it get too slow and too low on a landing approach and she just dropped a wing. No time to power up, no height with which to recover. Model is written off, not sure about the engine. Cant run it at the moment because the carburettor took a side-ways knock through the cowling via the high-speed needle extension. The upshot of that impact is that the "brittle" thermal insulating tube that seems to press into the rear cover of the engine and then fit into the carburettor has cracked through. As those who have attempted to remove the pressed portion (whilst trying to fit the Walbro carburettor mod) have reported, the portion that is "press" fitted into the rear cover is very difficult to remove. However, I have managed to get it out by removing the rear cover from the engine and careful dremel work to weaken the insulating tube and break it out.

O.K....so that has been achieved now I need a replacement part. The only place that seems to stock this is Horizon Hobby. You need to buy a "carburettor body" to get the insulating tube. Great, they have them in stock, and apparently they ship internationally using the much vaunted "Borderfree" system. Not so. It may ship to other countries, but when I tried to process my order to New Zealand it came up with an error message stating that they would not ship this item to New Zealand. Hard to know why. The bloody parts are small, lightweight, and relatively inexpensive. My opinion: Retarded!!!! (I would use stronger terms but will try to avoid upsetting anyone!!!)

Looked at RCJapan website, they have only a few parts listed. Not the part I need. Any other ideas?
Old 10-17-2016, 04:03 AM
  #900  
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Originally Posted by ALFIEV
So..... the Topflite Zero is no more. Let it get too slow and too low on a landing approach and she just dropped a wing. No time to power up, no height with which to recover. Model is written off, not sure about the engine. Cant run it at the moment because the carburettor took a side-ways knock through the cowling via the high-speed needle extension. The upshot of that impact is that the "brittle" thermal insulating tube that seems to press into the rear cover of the engine and then fit into the carburettor has cracked through. As those who have attempted to remove the pressed portion (whilst trying to fit the Walbro carburettor mod) have reported, the portion that is "press" fitted into the rear cover is very difficult to remove. However, I have managed to get it out by removing the rear cover from the engine and careful dremel work to weaken the insulating tube and break it out.

O.K....so that has been achieved now I need a replacement part. The only place that seems to stock this is Horizon Hobby. You need to buy a "carburettor body" to get the insulating tube. Great, they have them in stock, and apparently they ship internationally using the much vaunted "Borderfree" system. Not so. It may ship to other countries, but when I tried to process my order to New Zealand it came up with an error message stating that they would not ship this item to New Zealand. Hard to know why. The bloody parts are small, lightweight, and relatively inexpensive. My opinion: Retarded!!!! (I would use stronger terms but will try to avoid upsetting anyone!!!)

Looked at RCJapan website, they have only a few parts listed. Not the part I need. Any other ideas?
The piece you are talking about in not pressed in... it is held in place by very small allen set screws that are red Loctite in place you have to heat to remove them. Then the piece comes right out.

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