Saito FG-60R3
02-13-2017, 02:56 AM
#1226
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Richmond,
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Morgan fuels, 100% synthetic oil, the 60r3 manual says its "blue" but mine is a neon green. I called Morgan Fuels and they said green or blue, they both were the same.15:1 ratio if I remember, haven't mixed any this year.
Last edited by TomH; 02-13-2017 at 03:09 AM.
02-13-2017, 03:09 AM
#1227
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baffle pics
My 60r3 is on my extreme flight, 91" Yak, the cowl is like a two gallon bucket. with it being winter I started going over the plane, I just installed a temp probe on the #1 cyl.
I started with a baffle kit from Keleo-creations and I wasted a lot of time trying to get it to work/fit. my problem is I would have to cut up the cowl more in order make it work and I don't want to do that unless I have to. for those that have done the baffling do you have it attached to the engine, fire wall, or the cowl. has anyone used that craft foam for a baffle. that big round open cowl of mine has a lot of air flowing into it and then out of it. if we keep getting this warm weather, I was thinking of flying it and see what my temps are with telemetry temp probe. would really like to hear & see what others are doing, and what kind of temps you are getting especially after you baffled.
Tom
I started with a baffle kit from Keleo-creations and I wasted a lot of time trying to get it to work/fit. my problem is I would have to cut up the cowl more in order make it work and I don't want to do that unless I have to. for those that have done the baffling do you have it attached to the engine, fire wall, or the cowl. has anyone used that craft foam for a baffle. that big round open cowl of mine has a lot of air flowing into it and then out of it. if we keep getting this warm weather, I was thinking of flying it and see what my temps are with telemetry temp probe. would really like to hear & see what others are doing, and what kind of temps you are getting especially after you baffled.
Tom
02-13-2017, 07:54 AM
#1229
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I know that one looks very nice, but In order for me to do this I will have to cut a whole section from the exhaust outlet straight back to the end of the cowl so that the cowl will slide straight off. right know I can slide it forward halfway then tilt the front of the cowl down so it clears the exhaust outlet and off it comes. so if the temp probes begins to show any overeating, I guess I wont have any choice but to cut up the cowl. that carbon baffle is nice, really like the ability to give them a OD diameter. I wonder what that thing will cost after the VAP tax & freight is added.
T
T
02-13-2017, 11:54 AM
#1230
My Feedback: (18)
I used a baffle from rcmodelcomposites.com in my Seagull Lysander. It is likely smaller than your Yak cowl and I am able to maneuver the cowl, with the baffle installed, on and off the plane. It is very tight, but it does work. I also shortened the exhaust stack of my Keleo ring...
BTW -- awesome service from Andrew at rcmodelcomposites.com.
02-13-2017, 02:06 PM
#1232
Now a bad report on the FG90.... http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-w...l#post12305612
02-13-2017, 03:19 PM
#1233
http://www.retromotory.cz/en/products-page/
02-13-2017, 03:33 PM
#1234
MDAVIS28, did you put in the fake cylinders in your cowl?
Have most, if not all, the failures listed here been on the p-47 with the fake radials installed?
I have never used baffles or fake cylinders on Tar Heel Hal or the Yak I had the engine in and so far, knock on wood, no issues. Perhaps the baffles are working OK for cylinders in most situations but are not allowing the Keleo exhaust ring to get enough air uniformly over it causing them to get too hot, expand too much and cause too much stress on the cylinders.
Have most, if not all, the failures listed here been on the p-47 with the fake radials installed?
I have never used baffles or fake cylinders on Tar Heel Hal or the Yak I had the engine in and so far, knock on wood, no issues. Perhaps the baffles are working OK for cylinders in most situations but are not allowing the Keleo exhaust ring to get enough air uniformly over it causing them to get too hot, expand too much and cause too much stress on the cylinders.
Will be sending my engine off today to horizon for inspection and repair. At this point I feel a full replacement is needed. My wife wants money back, which may be best. I am happy with the performance of this engine but the reliability is jus not there. Here is a list of what all is in my P-47.
im not trying to brag or anything. Just to be realistic on what is in my plane. Let's be honest, as soon as you take off there is no guarantee that it is coming back in one piece. To have a cylinder failure puts all this at a higher risk.
Top flite p-47 razorback 749.99
Saito FG-60 1099.99
keleo exhaust ring. 185.00
xoar 22x10 prop. 26.99
spektrum ar9110. 189.99
spektrum remote rx. 34.99
spektrum tm1000. 56.99
savox Sv0220mg 25.99 x 9 (233.91)
robart electric retracts main 459.95
robart electric tail retract. 189.95
robart electric extension 9.69
robart electric extension 8.69
robart aluminum wheels. 79.95 x 2 (159.90)
tech-aero ultra ibec. 35.99
rpm sensor. 15.99
glacier 2200 2s lipo. 15.50 x 2 (31.00)
not including any other misc or shipping cost
total of 3,489.01
im not trying to brag or anything. Just to be realistic on what is in my plane. Let's be honest, as soon as you take off there is no guarantee that it is coming back in one piece. To have a cylinder failure puts all this at a higher risk.
Top flite p-47 razorback 749.99
Saito FG-60 1099.99
keleo exhaust ring. 185.00
xoar 22x10 prop. 26.99
spektrum ar9110. 189.99
spektrum remote rx. 34.99
spektrum tm1000. 56.99
savox Sv0220mg 25.99 x 9 (233.91)
robart electric retracts main 459.95
robart electric tail retract. 189.95
robart electric extension 9.69
robart electric extension 8.69
robart aluminum wheels. 79.95 x 2 (159.90)
tech-aero ultra ibec. 35.99
rpm sensor. 15.99
glacier 2200 2s lipo. 15.50 x 2 (31.00)
not including any other misc or shipping cost
total of 3,489.01
02-13-2017, 05:55 PM
#1235
Luckymacy, I did not use the fake cylinders on my P-47. I think the key to a good baffle is not just having a plate that has holes cut out for the cylinders, but has pieces that extend off the front plate and extends past the cylinders that is close to the cylinders so it keeps the air as close to the cylinders as possible.
Tom H. On my P-47 the baffle is actually attached to the exhaust. So the cowling slides over engine and baffle. I use some grey kraft foam that seals the gap between the cowling and baffle so air doesn't seep into the cracks. I also used the foam to make little pieces that hug each cylinder so the incoming air goes thru the cooling fins.
MD
Tom H. On my P-47 the baffle is actually attached to the exhaust. So the cowling slides over engine and baffle. I use some grey kraft foam that seals the gap between the cowling and baffle so air doesn't seep into the cracks. I also used the foam to make little pieces that hug each cylinder so the incoming air goes thru the cooling fins.
MD
02-13-2017, 06:09 PM
#1236
Baffle
Here are some pics of my baffle and exhaust. I had to slot the exhaust opening to get the cowling on and off but it also lets more hot air escape so it's not all bad.
02-13-2017, 06:26 PM
#1237
Luckymacy, I did not use the fake cylinders on my P-47. I think the key to a good baffle is not just having a plate that has holes cut out for the cylinders, but has pieces that extend off the front plate and extends past the cylinders that is close to the cylinders so it keeps the air as close to the cylinders as possible.
Tom H. On my P-47 the baffle is actually attached to the exhaust. So the cowling slides over engine and baffle. I use some grey kraft foam that seals the gap between the cowling and baffle so air doesn't seep into the cracks. I also used the foam to make little pieces that hug each cylinder so the incoming air goes thru the cooling fins.
MD
Tom H. On my P-47 the baffle is actually attached to the exhaust. So the cowling slides over engine and baffle. I use some grey kraft foam that seals the gap between the cowling and baffle so air doesn't seep into the cracks. I also used the foam to make little pieces that hug each cylinder so the incoming air goes thru the cooling fins.
MD
Is there anyone who cracked a cylinder that was never baffled? anyone crack a cylinder head running it on the ground? any cracked cylinders that weren't using a ring type exhaust?
02-13-2017, 06:30 PM
#1238
Luckymacy, my first cylinder failure was the no.2 cylinder. I was at Joe Nall and the plane was in flight when it cracked. It ran funny and the sound of it was off. I set up an emergency landing and then killed the engine with my kill switch. I did not have a baffle on the engine at the time.
02-13-2017, 06:38 PM
#1239
On a different note, anyone have a spare saito 5019 breather nipple or know what the thread size is? Every website I could find from a US source was sold out. Horizon says they won't have back in stock until May.
thx!
thx!
02-13-2017, 07:25 PM
#1240
When I had the Saito in the Yak late last year I tried like hell to kill the engine. Leaned it out, extended verticals, tried to hover (it was just about 1:1 power to weight), lomcevaked and tumbled the crap out of the plane and it just kept on running like a swiss watch. And that's with me breaking it in on redline with redlines break-in additive before going to Klotz. I replaced Tar Heel with the Razorback, put the saito in it and I'm going to keep on trying to kill it so I can justify getting the FG-90...
02-14-2017, 04:57 AM
#1241
My Feedback: (3)
Luckymacy, there was a guy a few pages back that said he cracked a cylinder with the stock exhaust pipes on the plane.
I'm running the Tarheel Hal with the fake radial installed, which I cut out and created some baffles with balsa wood that direct air past the cylinder head. Hot air blows out the back of the canopy. In the Summer I can feel the fuselage when I come down and the fuselage is warm so I know hot air is going out. Plus my temps go between 280F-330F while in flight depending on how hard I am on the throttle.
Been using Redline synthetic since break-in. About 3 gallons of fuel through the plane now, about 40 flights I'd say. No problems knock on wood.
...Timbers
I'm running the Tarheel Hal with the fake radial installed, which I cut out and created some baffles with balsa wood that direct air past the cylinder head. Hot air blows out the back of the canopy. In the Summer I can feel the fuselage when I come down and the fuselage is warm so I know hot air is going out. Plus my temps go between 280F-330F while in flight depending on how hard I am on the throttle.
Been using Redline synthetic since break-in. About 3 gallons of fuel through the plane now, about 40 flights I'd say. No problems knock on wood.
...Timbers
I found your first baffle job on the engine when the cylinder head let go. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-...l#post12281822
Is there anyone who cracked a cylinder that was never baffled? anyone crack a cylinder head running it on the ground? any cracked cylinders that weren't using a ring type exhaust?
Is there anyone who cracked a cylinder that was never baffled? anyone crack a cylinder head running it on the ground? any cracked cylinders that weren't using a ring type exhaust?
02-14-2017, 05:31 AM
#1242
Luckymacy, there was a guy a few pages back that said he cracked a cylinder with the stock exhaust pipes on the plane.
I'm running the Tarheel Hal with the fake radial installed, which I cut out and created some baffles with balsa wood that direct air past the cylinder head. Hot air blows out the back of the canopy. In the Summer I can feel the fuselage when I come down and the fuselage is warm so I know hot air is going out. Plus my temps go between 280F-330F while in flight depending on how hard I am on the throttle.
Been using Redline synthetic since break-in. About 3 gallons of fuel through the plane now, about 40 flights I'd say. No problems knock on wood.
...Timbers
I'm running the Tarheel Hal with the fake radial installed, which I cut out and created some baffles with balsa wood that direct air past the cylinder head. Hot air blows out the back of the canopy. In the Summer I can feel the fuselage when I come down and the fuselage is warm so I know hot air is going out. Plus my temps go between 280F-330F while in flight depending on how hard I am on the throttle.
Been using Redline synthetic since break-in. About 3 gallons of fuel through the plane now, about 40 flights I'd say. No problems knock on wood.
...Timbers
02-14-2017, 10:13 AM
#1244
I too placed the batteries on a shelf I made below the wing bolt T nuts on tar heel hal. Razorback is going be more naturally nose heavy the way I'm building it and I don't think doing the same thing is going to be quite enough to balance out. So I was actually curious if you moved the batteries even further back than where I had them and/or ended up adding dead weight in the tail.
In my attempt to try and kill the engine (joke, kinda) I'm going to add a smoke system this time around.
02-14-2017, 11:21 AM
#1245
Join Date: Mar 2007
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WARNING!
The use offull synthetic oils designed for use in “4 Cycle” model airplane engines iswhat is recommended as the oil in the crankcase is what is passed by the pistonrings during operation of the engine.
Most 2stroke are called lubes not oil my recommendation is beware of lubes for chainsaws and gardening equipment and even 2 cycle model engines.
Also bewareof oils for 4 cycle gasoline automotive applications as these are for wet sumpoil pump pressure applications
Suggestedoils are: KLOTZ KL-200Available from SummitRacing in Quart containers part# KLZ-KL-200
Phone:1(800) 230-3030
www.summitracing.com
Cool PowerHigh Performance Synthetic Model Engine Oil.
Phone #(800) 633 7556
Fax# (334)393 4852
www.MORGANFUEL.com
Availablefrom horizon hobby in quart container part# COO500
Phone 1(888)804 3218
http://www.horizonhobby.comI recommend using 15:1 (9 ounces oil perUS gallon) with premium non alcohol gasoline.(Iuse Sunoco Optima) 94 Octane gasoline, no alcohol very low lead.
CAUTION
your engine has been fitted with a cap over thecrankcase vent this is designed to keep the residual oil left after testingyour engine from draining during transportit Must be removed before starting the engine or seriousdamages can occur it is best to add a vent tube exiting approximately half theheight of the crankcase and to avoid mess I put it into a small catch tank thatI drain after flying my model.
IMPORTANT
PROPELLERS:It is important to maintain correctRPM with the choice propeller the FG84R3 needsto run around 6,000 RPM this is achieved by using a 24X12 broad bladepropeller(2 blade) or 22X12 (3 blade)
FG33R3use a 18X8 2 bladepropeller or 16X8 3 blade.
BAFFLES:Aswith all gas engines you need to keep an eye on your cooling. It is not abouthow much air is ingested it is about how much air is forced around thecylinders, over the cooling fins & around the back of the cylinders. Theexiting air must be 120% or greater thanthe incoming air. It is important to place baffles between the cylinders to generate air flowaround all of the cylinders of aradial engine and have sufficient exiting air to generate negative pressurewithin the cowl.
Place baffles 1” from front of heat sink onFG84, FDG90 and 450
FG33R3 11/16from front of cylinder at the base See Cowled in Photo
Continue:
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EXHAUST
Your KeleoRing has been fitted with a pressure nipple to maintain pressure in the fueltank during operation, do not use the tygon tubing but install 2” of thick wallsilicon tubing onto the nipple going into a filter and then attach to the tygontubing into the tank
TUNING ENGINE:It is important thatengine is not set lean as this will starve the bottom end of oil withdisastrous results. Run engine until it is warm (couple of minutes) Set Top Endto peak at full throttle should be around 6,100 RPM with the correct propeller,turn mixture screw counter clockwise to richen mixture until RPM drops to 5,800– 5,900. Reduce throttle till engine runs at around 3,000 RPM and set mid rangeusing low end needle in same manner as top end peak to 3,000 RPM then reduce speed by adjusting needle counterclockwise to richen mixture till engine runs at 2,800 RPM. Now set for mostreliable idle using throttle setting.
Note:engine must be slightly rich prior to launch as it will lean out in the air.
Please call if youhave questions.
GOFLY, HAVE FUN
RAY!
Ray English
9625 Oakley Lane
Reno, NV. 89521
USA
(775) 771-0824
[email protected]
[email protected]
02-19-2017, 09:11 AM
#1246
Well, now I'm concerned! I flew all last summer using Redline oil mixed 20:1 with no problems, but decided to change to Morgan oil because it was "highly recommended". I mixed a fresh batch of 20:1 Morgan Cool Power Synthetic Oil at 20:1 and flew three flights yesterday. For some reason the engine would not start by hand like it always did before. I flipped until my arm was sore and finally resorted to an electric starter and the engine fired right up. The first two flights seemed normal but on the third flight the engine went "sour". Running erratic and seemed like it was ready to quit. Today I pulled the cowl and checked the engine carefully. There is a new loud "clicking" noise coming from the internals....definitely sounds like one of the rod big ends is gone.
I will call Horizon tomorrow and see what they need me to do. Hopefully a simple repair under warranty.
I will call Horizon tomorrow and see what they need me to do. Hopefully a simple repair under warranty.
02-19-2017, 10:35 AM
#1247
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: BlenheimMarlborough, NEW ZEALAND
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Well, now I'm concerned! I flew all last summer using Redline oil mixed 20:1 with no problems, but decided to change to Morgan oil because it was "highly recommended". I mixed a fresh batch of 20:1 Morgan Cool Power Synthetic Oil at 20:1 and flew three flights yesterday. For some reason the engine would not start by hand like it always did before. I flipped until my arm was sore and finally resorted to an electric starter and the engine fired right up. The first two flights seemed normal but on the third flight the engine went "sour". Running erratic and seemed like it was ready to quit. Today I pulled the cowl and checked the engine carefully. There is a new loud "clicking" noise coming from the internals....definitely sounds like one of the rod big ends is gone.
I will call Horizon tomorrow and see what they need me to do. Hopefully a simple repair under warranty.
I will call Horizon tomorrow and see what they need me to do. Hopefully a simple repair under warranty.
4 months waiting for parts now. RC Japan have contacted Saito. Saito say they do a production run every 3 months, parts should be available soon (3 weeks ago), RC Japan are giving me weekly updates now, they keep getting assurances from Saito, but no product!! Can't expect RC Japan to do anything else. It's all down to Saito.
Don't want to upset any Saito fans here, but this is definitely the last Saito I will own, for the following reasons;
1. The engineering in the FG60R3 seems to be lacking.
2. They enforce strict areas of distribution on their dealers, which is great if you have Horizon or someone similar, but complete **** if you have a dealer/distributor who is not interested in after sales service.
3. Saito themselves are not interested in after sales service.
4. Saito can not be contacted directly as far as I have been able to ascertain, so you must go through your distributor, see point 2 above.
I hope that you all get better service and reliability improves.
Good luck!!!
Alf
02-19-2017, 10:45 AM
#1248
All I can say is Wow!! Sorry to hear you are having troubles with your Saito.
4 months waiting for parts now. RC Japan have contacted Saito. Saito say they do a production run every 3 months, parts should be available soon (3 weeks ago), RC Japan are giving me weekly updates now, they keep getting assurances from Saito, but no product!! Can't expect RC Japan to do anything else. It's all down to Saito.
Don't want to upset any Saito fans here, but this is definitely the last Saito I will own, for the following reasons;
1. The engineering in the FG60R3 seems to be lacking.
2. They enforce strict areas of distribution on their dealers, which is great if you have Horizon or someone similar, but complete **** if you have a dealer/distributor who is not interested in after sales service.
3. Saito themselves are not interested in after sales service.
4. Saito can not be contacted directly as far as I have been able to ascertain, so you must go through your distributor, see point 2 above.
I hope that you all get better service and reliability improves.
Good luck!!!
Alf
4 months waiting for parts now. RC Japan have contacted Saito. Saito say they do a production run every 3 months, parts should be available soon (3 weeks ago), RC Japan are giving me weekly updates now, they keep getting assurances from Saito, but no product!! Can't expect RC Japan to do anything else. It's all down to Saito.
Don't want to upset any Saito fans here, but this is definitely the last Saito I will own, for the following reasons;
1. The engineering in the FG60R3 seems to be lacking.
2. They enforce strict areas of distribution on their dealers, which is great if you have Horizon or someone similar, but complete **** if you have a dealer/distributor who is not interested in after sales service.
3. Saito themselves are not interested in after sales service.
4. Saito can not be contacted directly as far as I have been able to ascertain, so you must go through your distributor, see point 2 above.
I hope that you all get better service and reliability improves.
Good luck!!!
Alf
02-19-2017, 11:45 AM
#1249
Well, now I'm concerned! I flew all last summer using Redline oil mixed 20:1 with no problems, but decided to change to Morgan oil because it was "highly recommended". I mixed a fresh batch of 20:1 Morgan Cool Power Synthetic Oil at 20:1 and flew three flights yesterday. For some reason the engine would not start by hand like it always did before. I flipped until my arm was sore and finally resorted to an electric starter and the engine fired right up. The first two flights seemed normal but on the third flight the engine went "sour". Running erratic and seemed like it was ready to quit. Today I pulled the cowl and checked the engine carefully. There is a new loud "clicking" noise coming from the internals....definitely sounds like one of the rod big ends is gone.
I will call Horizon tomorrow and see what they need me to do. Hopefully a simple repair under warranty.
I will call Horizon tomorrow and see what they need me to do. Hopefully a simple repair under warranty.
02-19-2017, 12:14 PM
#1250
Here is a video showing the "clicking" noise: https://youtu.be/UWEImh-16yo