TomH

My Feedback: (4)

Glad to here that their are others using a starter, I'm not ashamed to use it. Like my fingers and knuckles. I do flip it thru to make sure the cylinders are clear, and crank case oil is passed thru.
thanks
T

the pope

+++++

SWORDSN

My Feedback: (13)

I have used a starter on mine during the break in runs. Gonna try the pressurize the tank method next to prime . I now have it mounted on a TF FW190, hope to maiden in a few weeks.I'm still working on the finishing details.I plan to fly it without the cowl on the first flight(spooked about over heating).

ForcesR

Where did you place the hot air exit holes?

SWORDSN

My Feedback: (13)

I plan to cut holes in the firewall and open up the dummy exhaust as outlined on this thread. I also have the louvers. I may just cut open the bottom of the cowl...not sure how much.Heat seems to be a problem with these engines. Should have bought a no cowl bipe

ForcesR

You are doing what I plan on doing too. Where did you purchase your louvers from? I've been searching for an RC hobby shop that has them but no luck so far.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

I got an update from Horizon on the repairs to my engine. The internal clicking noise was due to a couple of mushroomed tappets. No other issues were found. Waiting for them to test run the engine and return it.

khoysagk

My Feedback: (2)

http://www.taildraggerrc.com/cooling-vent-louvers/

ForcesR

khoysagk; thank-you for the link, it's very much appreciated!

kwik

I have had problems once with all my Saitos; My wife bought the petrol. She bought some 95 Octan with all that "green" addons. The all overheated within 3 minutes ground testing.

I got rid of that petrol, and bought some 98 Octan without all the green bio-stuff. The where back to their normal self.

GalenB

My Feedback: (18)

Now that you mention octane I am wondering what octane others are using... The included instructions recommend E0 (ethanol free) fuel, but no mention of octane... However, I have a recollection that 93 octane was recommended, but now cannot find that reference... (Maybe it is farther back in this thread as a RE recommendation?)

I am also wondering if lower octane fuels may be contributing to the cylinder failures... Isn't there a greater chance of knocking (detonation causes dramatic increases in cylinder pressures) or pre-ignition when using lower octane fuel?

Since the more typical 2 cycle gas engines don't seem to have a detonation problem then perhaps this is something to which new 4 cycle gas engine owners need to pay attention... Comments?

I assume that 93 octane will not hurt my new 60 (even if not required), and since I have easy access to 93 octane E0 that is the fuel with which I'll start.

kwik

I think it is the ethanol bio-addons that is the problem.

SWORDSN

My Feedback: (13)

I use ethanol free 87 octane in all my 2-stroke gas engines with good results,but a higher octane ethanol free may be better per GalenB,on this engine.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

Lower octane fuel burns faster and is what should be run in these engines. The higher Octane doesn't improve the performance unless you change the timing to enjoy the benefit of the slower burning flame front in the combustion chamber.
Its like putting premium fuel in a car designed to run on regular fuel. Also since we have some international posters on this thread. Octane rating uses different scales depending one the country, in general I think everyone here in the US uses the combined scales of octane rating. Look on the fuel pump next time you are refueling the car and you will see the scale posted on the pump.
Avoid aviation gas it has Lead in it and will tend to foul the plugs. The ethanol in most pump gas will cause corrosion and other difficulties with the engine.
I asked RE about running Colman fuel in the engine to avoid the objectionable smell and he said don't run the Colman fuel.
He suggested one of the Sunoco race fuels. Optima I believe he said.
Sparky

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I asked Japan RC about the availability of a Air filter as well as a venturi for the engine as an aftermarket option.
They say not available for the engine. Has anybody adapted either one to this engine?
Sparky

GalenB

My Feedback: (18)

My enquiry about octane was not because I wanted to increase performance (I am well aware that it won't) -- it was about how octane may affect detonation (knocking) in this particular engine, and how that may affect cylinder failures...

Since, as you point out, octane ratings are not internationally standardized, then it is possible that Saito designed, and tested, this engine using a higher, or lower, octane than is typically used here in the US. And, if the tolerances are tight and things are not overbuilt -- then even a small amount of over pressure during combustion could have catastrophic effect. I also think that if detonation is occurring in this engine -- it will be hard to detect. It's not like you are sitting your (older?) car and you push on the accelerator pedal and hear that awful noise coming from the engine...

Nitrovein

I'm not sure where you got that kind of information, because there isn't any correlation between octane rating and burn rate.
And if slow burning was the key to high performance, engines would be designed Very differently from what they are today.

Ceeray

Hi everyone.
I am now starting to convert from electric planes to more noisier ones. I also fly turbines so I already have made the needed "leap" with money...

I am looking for a Fw-190d9 project and with nice sound of course. Fg-60 would fit nicely, but as I have read from this thread there seems to be many faulty motors around.

So as this would be my first gasser can you recommend me this motor or is too hard to keep running and flying? Turbines need just oil and 25h service interval and they're happy.

And I will make the plane elecric with sound system if I cannot find a suitable powerplant with nice sound. Kolm 150v3 would be fulfillment of dreams with Bf-109, but its undoable and I might want to start with something easier...

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

It's a common myth that has been repeated many times until it's become an "alternative fact". For an engine with a small internal volume, like the FG60 (20cc per cylinder), the octane rating of the fuel isn't very important.

The octane number of gasoline is NOT a measure of its hotness or coolness in the burning process, and it is NOT a measure of how 'powerful' it is. The octane number is simply a measure of how good the gasoline is at resisting detonation (knocking/pinging).

Octane numbers are measured two ways. The 'research' method of measuring the octane number uses a constant speed (1500 rpm) engine in laboratory conditions. This is the RON - Research Octane Number. The other method is the MON - Motor Octane Number, which uses a harsher test regime more closely related to road conditions. So the MON is usually lower than the RON for the same fuel.

Often you may see the octane rating quoted as (R+M)/2. This means an average of the two methods is used to give the fuel a number. This number method is often called 'pump octane' or AKI (anti-knock index) in the US.

Using a higher octane gasoline in an engine designed for low octane WILL NOT increase it's performance - the octane number is a MINIMUM needed to eliminate detonation, and that's all it is. The octane rating is a measure of the fuel's ability to CONTROL the burning process (to prevent detonation); it is not a function of burning 'hotter' or 'colder'. And the higher the compression ratio (in the same engine), the higher the octane number needed.

There is no problem using a high octane gas, but it won't change how the engine runs. The reason I use 91 octane gas is because it is ethanol free. Ethanol can cause many problems for small engines.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Clarence Lee is a well known engine "guru". He says it's OK to use Coleman Fuel in small gas engines. Coleman Fuel has an octane rating of 60.

https://www.modelairplanenews.com/coleman-fuel/

https://www.modelairplanenews.com/ethanol-question/

757jonp

My Feedback: (48)

I don't claim to know much, but I do know that detonation is not a good idea in any engine! I've got a FG-60, and reading through this forum am fully aware of the cylinder problems. The first thing that comes to my mind is it's a result of detonation. For that reason alone I'm running 100LL from the local airport mixed 15:1. Granted, it's a little expensive @ 5.17/gl, but hopefully worth it in the long run. My 2 stroke gassers all get cheap pump gas, and seem just fine on it, but this engine is a different animal altogether.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

100LL should work. Be aware of the potential for fouled plugs and stuck valves due to the high lead content.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

RE the guy who did the mod on my engine said not to use Coleman fuel.
100 LL might cause problems with lead fouling.
Sparky

Nitrovein

So so true, Increase rpm or decrease radial burn distance and the requirement of high octane (-rating) decreases.

Worth also mentioning is that two stroke oils change the rating, some more then others.

HARRIS-G

O.K.

High octane gasoline is burning more controlable and helps avoid detonation in high performance engines......

Saito fg-60 is a high performance engine with high compression (over10,5:1) and with the timing of the engine maybe not be perfect high octane gasoline is a must to avoid detonaiton which can DESTROY YOUR ENGINE!!!!! Low octane gasoline used from engines that the compression is not over 9:1 but if you like you can used it in your engines, don't try to convince us who know about engines what to use.....
Saito because of market policy recommend also lower octane gasoline but on your own risk....
Nobody that uses high octane gasoline expects the engine to give more power........ he just try to protect her from DETONATION that all..........!!!!!!!!!

Haris