Saito FG-60R3
09-25-2018, 05:55 AM
#1826
My Feedback: (48)
IMHO I think the reason there's no choke is because Saito wanted to head off the possibility of hydrolocking the engine especially while using an electric starter??? I wasn't to crazy about this carb at first, but it works really well once tuned correctly.
09-25-2018, 04:37 PM
#1828
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Walker,
LA
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ran a few more tanks through it yesterday and today. Cranked up and ran good. I did back off the low needle a couple clicks. Idle is still rich. Low needle is around 5 3/4 open and main is 2 turns open. I will leave it set there and try the walbro when it comes in. I'll give a update after I run it with the walbro.
Jeff
Jeff
10-02-2018, 06:40 AM
#1829
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I had the Morris Walbro carb on mine. Ran like carp. One thing to note is the carb that he sends with the conversions, is awful, it’s not a proper walbro, you’d be better off with a DLE55RA carb on it.
mine are both back on the Saito carb, it does it’s job and since there is very little ‘pulse’ from a 4T crankcase, it’s probably a better bet. They take some getting used to and aren’t without problems. One of mine I had to put flange sealant on the threads of the LSN, it’s so loose in there that it was changing tune all the time.
this carb does not need a choke, set up your radio to throttle hold, so your carb is fully closed, crank over with ignition off, about 10 times, turn off throttle hold, put it on a high idle, few clicks up. Flip once or twice. Thing starts easier than all but my well run in DLE’s
mine are both back on the Saito carb, it does it’s job and since there is very little ‘pulse’ from a 4T crankcase, it’s probably a better bet. They take some getting used to and aren’t without problems. One of mine I had to put flange sealant on the threads of the LSN, it’s so loose in there that it was changing tune all the time.
this carb does not need a choke, set up your radio to throttle hold, so your carb is fully closed, crank over with ignition off, about 10 times, turn off throttle hold, put it on a high idle, few clicks up. Flip once or twice. Thing starts easier than all but my well run in DLE’s
10-02-2018, 07:06 AM
#1830
My Feedback: (48)
I had the same problem with the low speed needle on mine, ie too loose and wouldn't hold position thus causing all kinds of tuning problems. Solved mine by doubling up the O ring that seals it. The fitment of the threaded portion of the needle that screws into the barrel isn't the best, in fact it's downright sloppy! Tried a new one with the same sloppy results.
10-02-2018, 10:53 AM
#1831
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sherwood,
OR
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Follow up on my ongoing struggle to get the Spektrum telemetry to work with this motor. The Rpm, temp, altitude, volts all worked with the prior engine. (DLE 50cc) But with the saito tach connected, using the recommended rpm adapter, the system either does no feed back or some functions work for a few minutes then all the measures lock up. I have completely restarted the system several times and still get no fix. If the tach drive cable is removed, the temp and altitude work again. I don't get a response from saito or horizon for service help so I give up. I am taking it all out and installing it in the garbage can where it belongs.
10-02-2018, 11:01 AM
#1832
My Feedback: (6)
Just a quick note, I flew 4 times over the weekend at the Bluegrass flyin the motor is really running well, 6700 RPM with the same prop Ive been using all along 22X10 I can keep up with the other guys and only stopped flying because the firewall came out from a poor glue joint performed form the previous owner. It was a nice save however.
Sparky
Sparky
10-03-2018, 10:48 AM
#1833
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Walker,
LA
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Finally got a lil time to get in the shop and try the Walbro I got from Morris Motors. The Walbro he sent with the conversion is the WT series that is used on dozens of small engine applications. From chain saws, string trimmers, leaf blowers the list goes on. The carb I got is the WT-962. It has a choke but I don't think it will be needed with this motor. It starts that easy. Also it came with a nice billet intake horn which I left on the carb. Only draw back is one might have to use longer stand offs which I had to do on my test stand. Otherwise will work fine. I set the carb needles at 2 turns on the low and 1 1/4 turns on the high. This was close and the motor cranked on first flip. I did however put my finger over the intake to choke and draw some fuel into the new carb before I started it but otherwise it cranks on first flip everytime. Throttle transition is very smooth and it will tick over at idle. Got it to 6100rpm on a lil rich needle on the high side. I will leave it there for now. Like mentioned before the Saito carb is a good runner but finicky on the needles. I did notice on my Saito carb the the motor will change rpm when the low needle is touched when adjusting. This should be a easy fix. I will look at mine later. Out of time today. I will run it some more tomorrow and try a couple things.
Jeff
Jeff
10-04-2018, 09:27 AM
#1834
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Walker,
LA
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got a some more run time in today. Went out to the shop and turn the batteries on and on first flip on a cold motor it cranked right up and idled around 1450. I let it warm up and went to full throttle. RPM was 6780 to 6790 using a Mejzlik 22x10 prop. Very pleased with the results. I shut it down and pulled it off the test stand after it cooled. I got a OS FT-300 to play with now and a OS FT-320 Pegasus later. I'am planning on a Corsair build over the winter to put the Saito in. Can't wait to get it in the air.
Jeff
Jeff
10-08-2018, 12:41 AM
#1835
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All, does anyone experience this?
My FG-60R3 only flew less then 5 hours, the cylinder was exploded last weekend after my 2nd flight of the day.
The first flight went well, the maximum RPM was measured as 5700 before take off.
I managed to have a nice landing then after few cold drinks and cigarette (you know we normally chat with friends in the field) I fill up the tank and start the engine for 2nd flight.
The engine fire up normally, then I taxi my ESM Zero to the run way as usual, suddenly I heard a crisp sound and engine is stopped at the same time. (I am super lucky that happen wasn't in the air......)
I found the four screws of the cylinder head still stays nicely, meaning the the exploded was can caused by loosen screw.
Does anyone experience similar engine failure? Next to this I heard Saito introduce newer version FG-60R3 recently, the change is mainly the shape of the piston, does anyone have these information?
<Info> Motul 800, mixture 1:20 with gasoline, propeller 22x10 wood. operating <5 hours, ESM Zero
Chris
My FG-60R3 only flew less then 5 hours, the cylinder was exploded last weekend after my 2nd flight of the day.
The first flight went well, the maximum RPM was measured as 5700 before take off.
I managed to have a nice landing then after few cold drinks and cigarette (you know we normally chat with friends in the field) I fill up the tank and start the engine for 2nd flight.
The engine fire up normally, then I taxi my ESM Zero to the run way as usual, suddenly I heard a crisp sound and engine is stopped at the same time. (I am super lucky that happen wasn't in the air......)
I found the four screws of the cylinder head still stays nicely, meaning the the exploded was can caused by loosen screw.
Does anyone experience similar engine failure? Next to this I heard Saito introduce newer version FG-60R3 recently, the change is mainly the shape of the piston, does anyone have these information?
<Info> Motul 800, mixture 1:20 with gasoline, propeller 22x10 wood. operating <5 hours, ESM Zero
Chris
10-08-2018, 04:13 AM
#1836
My Feedback: (6)
Sorry to hear your issues. I don't have that much time on my engine I am hopeful this is a one off situation!
With that prop the RPM seems a bit low. Given you are on an Island, I guess you field is close to sea level elevation. I am getting 800 -900 RPM more.
Have you adjusted the valve lash? Which Cly.?
Was the engine ever crashed?
Sparky
With that prop the RPM seems a bit low. Given you are on an Island, I guess you field is close to sea level elevation. I am getting 800 -900 RPM more.
Have you adjusted the valve lash? Which Cly.?
Was the engine ever crashed?
Sparky
10-08-2018, 05:44 PM
#1837
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi elmshoot!
The engine is new, I am also surprise the performance is only 5700 rpm,everal friends of mine got 6400 rpm ......., I just do not know why. I was plan to adjust the valve lash these days, however it already dead.....The cylinder is #2 , everybody got failure on #2?
Do you hear anything that Saito introduce a repair kit to solve this problem?
The engine is new, I am also surprise the performance is only 5700 rpm,everal friends of mine got 6400 rpm ......., I just do not know why. I was plan to adjust the valve lash these days, however it already dead.....The cylinder is #2 , everybody got failure on #2?
Do you hear anything that Saito introduce a repair kit to solve this problem?
10-08-2018, 07:59 PM
#1838
My Feedback: (6)
I don't know if you can tell from the packaging or other nomenclature whne your engine was produced. It was my understanding (from Ray English) that the newer production had incorporated some of the modifications that he was doing on the early release engine.
I believe it was to even out the fuel delivery to each cly so they all ran closer to the same temp. By chance did you ever check cly head temps to see if they were in balance?
Perhaps from the low performance on your engine it suffered from a hot cly. Indicative of a early production engine
Sparky
I believe it was to even out the fuel delivery to each cly so they all ran closer to the same temp. By chance did you ever check cly head temps to see if they were in balance?
Perhaps from the low performance on your engine it suffered from a hot cly. Indicative of a early production engine
Sparky
10-08-2018, 10:41 PM
#1839
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have check with local distributor that they can help to ship the engine back to Japan for some upgrade/modification, the detail I do not know yet. They only share with me the engine will be checked and put the new part in, also they will help to fire it up and do the adjustment and break in.
However, I do not know how much it will cost me, I expect the quote before end of this week, let's see.
However, I do not know how much it will cost me, I expect the quote before end of this week, let's see.
10-15-2018, 12:41 PM
#1841
My Feedback: (18)
How many gallons of fuel have you used? I have broken mine in, and flown the plane 27 times, and I am still on my first gallon fuel... Mine is running really well, and when properly primed, is one flip to start. The one flip start and that sound always cause "heads to turn" and take notice...
10-15-2018, 12:53 PM
#1842
My Feedback: (6)
I am on my third gallon of fuel with no issues.
I haven't used an electric starter on mine since bench running. It hand flips really well and i cant come anywhere close to doing a prime on the engine prior to start. The only thing is that I refuel through the same delivery line as feeding the carb so the line is charged ready to go when I start up.
At present add 8 OZ of Red Line oil to a gallon of 87 octane methanol free pump gas.
Sparky
I haven't used an electric starter on mine since bench running. It hand flips really well and i cant come anywhere close to doing a prime on the engine prior to start. The only thing is that I refuel through the same delivery line as feeding the carb so the line is charged ready to go when I start up.
At present add 8 OZ of Red Line oil to a gallon of 87 octane methanol free pump gas.
Sparky
10-16-2018, 09:25 AM
#1844
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Set any cylinder @ 28 degrees BTDC and all will fire accordingly as long as the proper leads are hooked up in the proper firing order.. If Saito is fudging the timing between cylinders for what ever reason, it would be very easy to determine. Just measure the distance between the 3 firing magnets on the hub. If they are equal distance apart, the firing order is 240 degrees with a waste spark every 240 degrees on the exhaust strokes..
.
.
I normally time engines, with the Rcxel units that buzz, and lights illuminate, and standard practice (with DLE's etc) is when the buzzer stops as the magnet is LEAVING the hall sensor in a counter-clockwise direction. Does this hold true for these engines as well?
Using this method, I loosened the hall sensor screws and RETARDED the timing as far as it would go, and I got 12 Deg BTDC. Then I advanced it as much as I could, and got 22 Deg BTDC.... I did it in a bit of a hurry, and will do it again with more accuracy when I can, but even if I was out by 5-6 Deg, the best I would get is 28 Deg in the most advanced position of the hall sensor.
This doesnt seem right. The factory position of the sensor before I messed with it, was kinda in the mid position, which would give timing of around 17 Deg BTDC....
10-16-2018, 12:15 PM
#1845
cathurga, this video on timing Saito engines may be of help?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTwy...ature=youtu.be
Roger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTwy...ature=youtu.be
Roger
10-16-2018, 12:37 PM
#1846
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Roger, yep, thanks, I have seen that before, and many of his others. In that video, around the 30:30 mark, you can clearly see how the piston hits the stopper at 30Deg BTDC and the buzzer shuts off as the magnet LEAVES the hall sensor. When compared to my engine, where the factory setting was, gives you around 17 Deg BTDC, I would have to move the hall sensor as far anti-clockwise as possibleto get closer to 28 Deg BTDC, and it stops at around 22....which is wrong. I need to get a piston stopper and make sure it is 100% correct at TDC....
10-17-2018, 12:48 PM
#1847
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Ok, I have confirmed it. I cannot advance the sensor enough to get any more than 22Deg BTDC. That can only mean 1 of a few potential problems:
The holes for the mounting of the hall sensor are in the incorrect place - unlikely
The prop hub has shifted on the crankshaft - likely scenario, same happened to my Saito FG40. Removed the pin and pulled the hub to find it had sheared the end of the pin right off. Will be my next investigation point.
The ignition system is accounting for this - unlikely.
The hall sensor bracket is wrong - unlikely.
Magnets are mounted in the wrong place - will be able to tell if the problem is not the hub shift.
The engine has been suffering from a lack of power, and overheating, both are symptoms of retarded timing (in most cases). It idles well and transitions well which are also common in retarded timing....
Prop hub off on Friday...
Prop hub comes off next.
The holes for the mounting of the hall sensor are in the incorrect place - unlikely
The prop hub has shifted on the crankshaft - likely scenario, same happened to my Saito FG40. Removed the pin and pulled the hub to find it had sheared the end of the pin right off. Will be my next investigation point.
The ignition system is accounting for this - unlikely.
The hall sensor bracket is wrong - unlikely.
Magnets are mounted in the wrong place - will be able to tell if the problem is not the hub shift.
The engine has been suffering from a lack of power, and overheating, both are symptoms of retarded timing (in most cases). It idles well and transitions well which are also common in retarded timing....
Prop hub off on Friday...
Prop hub comes off next.
10-21-2018, 11:51 AM
#1848
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Linköping, SWEDEN
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have checked ch ignitions.com web page and have reading in download page how to use timing tool for muti cylinder engine timing. Timing is when green led on.
Single cylinder timing is when green led goes off.
l have this engine but have not started it and are going to buy ignition timing tool and check timing on each cylinder..
Single cylinder timing is when green led goes off.
l have this engine but have not started it and are going to buy ignition timing tool and check timing on each cylinder..
Last edited by F3A Nordic; 10-21-2018 at 11:58 AM.
10-27-2018, 01:56 AM
#1849
Senior Member
New piston design
Hello Guys.
I just pulled the trigger to order the new VQ Rare Bear.
On this airplane I want the FG-60. While google it, I found on the germane forum someone had received new pistons from Saito. It looks like they try to lower the compression ratio. Maybe this means Saito found out the engine detonated to much hence the breaking cylinders.