akouzmit

Every ignition module has some internal delay from the time hole sensor provides the triggering pulse to the time when high voltage reach the point which create spark.
ignition module is analog device especially that part (transformer), which create very high voltage on the output.
depend on construction and core material that transformer will create high voltage on the output with some different delay depend on particular design and material used for transformer core.
the spark plug gap size is also contribute to some delay.
The larger gap the more delay is.
where I am leading?
it is not essential to do so precise 28 degree setup as shown on the video!
your particular ignition module, spark plug gap and hole sensor gap all going to contribute to your engine timing.
even fuel octane number will contribute for some differences.

on well running engine with 28 degree hole sensor setup any movement of hole sensor 3 degree in one direction or other is not making any noticeable difference.
i did it several times on different OS engines and found that moving hole sensor one way or another by ~3 degree doesn't make noticeable difference in starting engine and at full RPM.

AK

Steve S. Helland

My Feedback: (15)

Get a Sullivan Dynatron starter and mount it up to a Miller belt reduction drive, 2 12 volt batteries connected in series (which makes 24 volts), This is currently what I do. The Sullivan Megatron starter will definitely do the job. There's a guy at my flying field who has a small starter with gear reduction that does the trick too...we call it "the little starter with a big heart".

closetguy

My Feedback: (13)

If you need a starter for a DLE55,something isn't rite! First thing I would do is get another ignition and sensor from RC Extreme Power.

kemp83

Hi! Thanks for the response. The way I am measuring the timing angle is by watching the spark plug, which is removed from the engine but in the spark plug case, firing.So, I set my needle at 0 degrees at the top end center, then move clockwise pass the sensor and then counter-clockwise till the spark fires. That is where I take the measurement. So, I don't think it is a matter of delay built up in the ignition. The total result is that the spark fires at 50 degrees before the top end center. What do you think?

kemp83

Hi 77chickenhawk

kemp83

[h=3]By the way the starter I have, which cannot turn this DLE55, is this one with the LIPO battery, which means 450Ncm!

Turnigy Lipoly Belt Drive Starter for 2-stroke 160 & 90 Size Gas Engines.

A high efficiency motor combined with a reduction belt system make this a smooth starting and easy to hold starter motor. Equipped with an aluminum starter cone and round rubber insert for helicopter and airplane spinner cones.

Easy-press start switch makes starting easy without requiring heavy finger pressure and a built-in finger-guard promises safe starts. The smaller diameter motor case also means it's easier to hold when starting large motors.

The Turnigy Lipoly Belt Drive starter has an adjustable carrying cage for a 4s1p 14.8v 2200mAhLipoly or similar or 2 x 2000mAh 7.2v Nimh Packs. A selection of connection options includes, pre-ttached Tamiya plugs for two 2S batteries and alligator clips for easy attachment to a 12V battery with the help of a Tamiya plug on the other end.

Size: 215 x 63 x 135mm
Weight: 1077g
Engine class: Airplane 2-stroke 160 class /Heli 2-stroke 90 class
Suitable battery;
2 x 7.2v 2s 2000mAh Nimh
4S1P 14.8V 2200mAh Lipoly
PB (Lead-acid battery) 12V DC power source


Torque;
36kg/cm (2000mAh Nimh)
45kg/cm (2200mAh Lipoly)
41kg/cm (PB Lead Acid)

*Note: Do not use more than 18V



[/h]

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

If you use the Miller reduction drive the 3/1 reduction reduces the current required by the motor so you can use a standard Sullivan motor on 24V. You do not need that expensive Dynatron.
The OP meeds to increase the voltage to the 18V maximum permitted by his unit

77chickenhawk

The 44, 43° timing I mention is in the DLE 55 manual. Everybody that says 30, 32° is wrong. Two-stroke timing is different than four stroke timing. Four stroke timing you are dealing with 360° of rotation. Two-stroke you are dealing with 180° timing. When you're turning the crank the direction it runs, with the ignition on turn the crank until the sensor activates the spark plug. If it's at 50° turn it back to no more than 45 degrees. Setting it at 32°, it will run and it might even run decent but you will be lacking in power and it will run hotter if the timing is not correct. It's not rocket science just set it at 43 to 44°

Now that I have mine set correctly, I can choke at three flips of the prop and it will burp. Undo the choke, three flips by hand and it starts every time. No electric starter needed just three fingers

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

OK, I can't hold out any longer. Telling people that 44 degrees of timing is correct is just dead wrong! I reference people who manufacture and market ignitions as a correct source. How about Bill Cunningham that was the original owner of CH? How about Adrian, the current owner of CH? How about Milton at RC Extreme Power? Then there is Ralph at RC Ignitions and dozens of other sources. All these sources and many, many more recommend the same standard 28 to 30 degrees of static timing with our relatively standard ignitions in use today.

If a user is measuring 44 degrees and the engine is running correctly, the method of measurement is not the standard the above sources recommend. If turned backwards to normal rotation when timing is correct and timing numbers are taken, you usually come up with about 44 degrees which many people mistakenly think is 44 degrees of timing when it is actually closer to the accepted 28 to 30. If actually timed at 44 degrees, the engine would be wanting to kick back severely when starting and would probably run quite rough at high speeds.

77chickenhawk

Well then the DLE book is wrong I guess. Because my engine runs better set at 43° than it did at 32. All it wanted to do was kick back and pre-ignite at 32° so all of you gentlemen believe what you want but I'm sticking with 43° or 44° Like the book says and what my two-stroke master technician suggested also. But one way to prove my case correct over all the other people is do a cylinder port timing which means setting the timing based off the piston location on the cylinder port. If you do a cylinder port timing I bet you it's going to be closer to my recommendation than the other

77chickenhawk

There you go

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

You're telling me an engine timed with "less" advance has more kick back then one with "more" advance? That my friend is not logical! You must be measuring timing by some non-typical method to come up with those numbers and still have an engine that runs right. No DLE source that I know of has ever stated how they came up with their timing numbers when most of their later engines are usually timed normal when you receive them. Also, the DLE numbers came from a book provided by Hobbico, not DLE. Rcexl who produced the DLE ignition also suggests timing in the normal 28 - 30 range.

Oh well, I really don't care what anybody does the rest of the day .... I'm going flying.

MTK

Geesh, that's it, I've been doing it all wrong all this time. I have my DLE55 set at it factory setting of 28 degrees BTDC and have been turning a Mezjlik 20x12- 3 blader
It specializes in one flip starts, puts out somewhere around 35 pounds of thrust (7K rpm) and is generally a joy to play with. Quiet set up too....

BadAzzMaxx

Is the ignition firing when the magnet goes under the sensor and also after magnet passes the sensor.

Milton

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I can't for the life of me understand why there would be any difference in the timing of a two stroke vs a four stroke. Please explain that to me.
Provided they have the same compression ratio the flame speed should be the same..
Also the timing should have no effect on pre-ignition .Preignition is caused by too high compression or low octane gas.
If you are timing your engine by turning it counter clockwise(with rotation) and noting when the spark occurs and you set it to 44 degrees I can guarantee you will have a poor running engine.

bipe II

My Feedback: (25)

+1 on 28-30 degree BTDC for your timing. I think the gentlemen that is stating 40 + degrees are taking their measurements different than most of us. Setting your true timing at 40+ degrees would make a very hard starting if not impossible engine to start. I like to use a 1/2" - 3/4" nap paint roller for a chicken stick. Doesn't damage the prop and I even use one to start my 220 Mintor and my 250 Moki with no issues. I hope this helps...

p.s. be careful with every thing you read on the web

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

I believe this is one of those examples where communications is just not happening through the keyboard. In cases like this, if we were all together in person, we could show each other what we are describing and in short order, we'd all be on the same page. But online, somethings things just don't get communicated as we would like. In other words, we could all be right, just not getting the point across to the other side in terms that can be easily understood. Just guessing ......

bcchi

The timing should be set at 28 to 30 degrees before top dead center on most chinese engines that use RCEXL Ignitions.I do not no how some of you guys are coming up with this 44 to 50 BTDC .If they were really set at 50 BTDC they would kick the crap out of you.Send me a engine and I will time it at 50 dg BTDC and you try and start it by hand with out a glove. I have 12 DLE engines and have checked all of them and all have been real close on timing.Send me a picture of the Hall sensor and the magnet with the engine set on TDC.Has to be right on TDC.Of corse I have only timed several hundred engines.I am just a old tired Nebraska farm boy who loves model airplanes and cannot spell.I am never going to mention this again I have preached about this enough.But timing should be 28 to 30 dr before top dead center.Talk to the people who do this all the time. O-well to heck with it. You cannot no how little I really care.CH Ignitions are timed the same as RCEXL.
BCCHI Old tired C&H guy.Going flying tomorrow.DLE engines timed at 30 dr BTDC.We can time a little more advanced here we are at 5450 ABSL. Good Night.

77chickenhawk

I posted the picture of the DLE manual where it states to time at 44° at would be with the factory Setting is. I posted the picture of the DLE manual where it states to time at 44° that's what the book showed me and you. The spark plug fires after it passes the sensor

1QwkSport2.5r

A thread from FG about timing. 28 degrees is right on the money no matter what the manual says.
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=76262

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I dont know how they could even time them at 44 degrees. They would have to drill new screw holes. Let them try it though, they will find out soon enough. I think the OP's hard starting is caused by that.

BadAzzMaxx

The ignition is a RCexl, Believe the manual or RCexl.

bcchi

This is correct believe it or not.I do not care.I no I was not going to mention this again;but this is too much fun.Flying went well today flew DLE 35 RA and DLE 20.Timed at 30 Dg BTDC. Ha Ha Ha.LOL
BCCHI Tired old C&H guy.You cannot no how little I really care.

bcchi

I am with you. BCCHI

captinjohn

Hey, you guys that use 40+ degrees of advance...use a timing light with engine running to see actual timing. If you cannot figure out how...get a electric airplane......... Regards, Captn