Glow-Gas engines
06-04-2015, 06:11 PM
#28
I use the NV-Engines GX 40 gasoline engine regularly. It uses a glow plug. It works fine. I have a Evolution 10cc gas engine and I have not used it in anything yet. I have three planes using the NGH 9cc gas engine as well. The NGH engines work for me, but I had to fix or correct things to get them to work. I have been meaning to put the Evo 10cc gas engine on a plane using one of the NGH 9cc engines but I haven't done it yet. Anyway, I do not see a problem with using the small gas engines.
Actually with my Escapade .40 plane, there really isn't any place to put the CDI ignition module, it is hanging under the engine. So I was planning on using a gas engine with a glow plug on it there instead. The gas/glow engines would be a real advantage on smaller planes where there isn't a place to put the CDI unit.
There is a real advantage to using the small gas engines, if you happen to be unfortunate enough to live in a local where glow fuel can be difficult to impossible to get, Or outrageously expensive. There are even areas in the USA where the hobby shops really charge a lot for glow fuel, think $40 a gallon or more. Some of the Pacific Islands do not have glow fuel, and it is next to impossible to import. Some countries don't allow it to be imported either.
Thus the glow plug equipped gasoline engine can work out well in some cases.
The OS gas engines using a glow plug will work fine. I would get one, but I don't need another engine at present.
The big thing to do with the small gas engines, is to filter everything. Use a filter going to the engine, a filter on the clunk and a filter on the fuel container too. Gasoline uses a much more lean air to fuel ratio than glow fuel does. Thus the fuel passages and orifices are smaller and more easy to clog up or obstruct. I suspect most people have problems due to debris getting into the carb and clogging up or obstructing something.
Oh yeah, if you happen to live in a locale where they sell M85 gasoline, then a regular glow plug would work in a model engine.
Actually with my Escapade .40 plane, there really isn't any place to put the CDI ignition module, it is hanging under the engine. So I was planning on using a gas engine with a glow plug on it there instead. The gas/glow engines would be a real advantage on smaller planes where there isn't a place to put the CDI unit.
There is a real advantage to using the small gas engines, if you happen to be unfortunate enough to live in a local where glow fuel can be difficult to impossible to get, Or outrageously expensive. There are even areas in the USA where the hobby shops really charge a lot for glow fuel, think $40 a gallon or more. Some of the Pacific Islands do not have glow fuel, and it is next to impossible to import. Some countries don't allow it to be imported either.
Thus the glow plug equipped gasoline engine can work out well in some cases.
The OS gas engines using a glow plug will work fine. I would get one, but I don't need another engine at present.
The big thing to do with the small gas engines, is to filter everything. Use a filter going to the engine, a filter on the clunk and a filter on the fuel container too. Gasoline uses a much more lean air to fuel ratio than glow fuel does. Thus the fuel passages and orifices are smaller and more easy to clog up or obstruct. I suspect most people have problems due to debris getting into the carb and clogging up or obstructing something.
Oh yeah, if you happen to live in a locale where they sell M85 gasoline, then a regular glow plug would work in a model engine.
06-05-2015, 07:34 AM
#30
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Captinjohn, thanks for contribution on E-85. Would like to hear more about E85 in a big Supertigres, 2500/3000/3250. What oil type is used? What ratio of oil to E-85 gas is used? What glow plug? Is the orig ST carb good? Best props?
How about the performance results?
This sounds like a great idea as there are plenty of bargain 'big block' ST available cheap, no fuss with ignitions or batteries & these ST engines just look really good to my eyes....like a model engine should. FYI Tower has ST 3250 in stock $199.
Ive a GP Pitts S-2 on the bench with an ST3250. Will save $$ if E-85 will run in it!
How about the performance results?
This sounds like a great idea as there are plenty of bargain 'big block' ST available cheap, no fuss with ignitions or batteries & these ST engines just look really good to my eyes....like a model engine should. FYI Tower has ST 3250 in stock $199.
Ive a GP Pitts S-2 on the bench with an ST3250. Will save $$ if E-85 will run in it!
06-05-2015, 08:02 AM
#31
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Why not go to a speed shop and get Methanol? I used to run my big Moki on it with 10% castor.I also used klotz at times
I just sold a ST 2500 on ebay for $50.
About that comment about Aerospace engineers being dumber than a box of rocks. I don;t know why that would bother you. I have known a lot of smart rocks.
I just sold a ST 2500 on ebay for $50.
About that comment about Aerospace engineers being dumber than a box of rocks. I don;t know why that would bother you. I have known a lot of smart rocks.
Last edited by dirtybird; 06-05-2015 at 08:08 AM.
06-05-2015, 08:39 AM
#32
Why not go to a speed shop and get Methanol? I used to run my big Moki on it with 10% castor.I also used klotz at times
I just sold a ST 2500 on ebay for $50.
About that comment about Aerospace engineers being dumber than a box of rocks. I don;t know why that would bother you. I have known a lot of smart rocks.
I just sold a ST 2500 on ebay for $50.
About that comment about Aerospace engineers being dumber than a box of rocks. I don;t know why that would bother you. I have known a lot of smart rocks.
06-05-2015, 10:03 AM
#33
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I'm sure you are right about smart rocks. I was alluding to the fact that some engineers in the aerospace industry get so specialized that they may not know enough about the effects of ethanol in gasoline on these small engines. You could say the same thing about automotive engineers not knowing everything about automobiles either.
06-05-2015, 10:18 AM
#34
I think with the current interest in drones, that there are many engineers in Aerospace that are interested in small engines. I was involved in one such program in 1973. At that time the greatest problem was there were no engines larger than 0.6CC except for go-cart engines and they were heavy.
06-05-2015, 11:20 AM
#35
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The most fun I had at Boeing was the Lunar Orbiter program. We photographed the landing sites for Apollo.We also made the first earth picture from the moon and photographed 97% of the moons near side.
I helped with the communications down link,designed the Launch Control Console, And was the Boeing systems engineer at the JPL Goldstone tracking site.
There is nothing like flying a spacecraft around the moon to get your juices flowing
06-05-2015, 11:28 AM
#36
It didn't turn out to be fun. It was to be a spotter for artillery fire. To evade interference we were going to use a satellite as a relay. The only available satellite at the time was one of the amateur Oscar series. It only had a 1 watt Tx and was in a low failing orbit. Faraday rotation of the signal as the satellite's distance changed caused the signal to fade in and out. We needed an antenna with circular polarization but I didn't figure that out until it was too late .Lockheed got the contract and called it Aquila.It was cancelled before production.
The most fun I had at Boeing was the Lunar Orbiter program. We photographed the landing sites for Apollo.We also made the first earth picture from the moon and photographed 97% of the moons near side.
I helped with the communications down link,designed the Launch Control Console, And was the Boeing systems engineer at the JPL Goldstone tracking site.
There is nothing like flying a spacecraft around the moon to get your juices flowing
The most fun I had at Boeing was the Lunar Orbiter program. We photographed the landing sites for Apollo.We also made the first earth picture from the moon and photographed 97% of the moons near side.
I helped with the communications down link,designed the Launch Control Console, And was the Boeing systems engineer at the JPL Goldstone tracking site.
There is nothing like flying a spacecraft around the moon to get your juices flowing
06-05-2015, 01:22 PM
#37
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Did you work at Ft Worth? I was there in about 1993 I think it was. I was to work on the F16 stores management system. That system is a nightmare.I decided it would take me a couple of years to learn that system,so I left..
06-05-2015, 05:03 PM
#38
Yep, Fort Worth. But the stuff I worked on was smaller systems and I had more hands on experience than some others working on big systems.
06-06-2015, 02:15 PM
#43
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Never underestimate the bloviating "factor" on these forums
The 10cc glow/gas ignition engine certainly is interesting, since the space needed for, and weight of the CDI ignition module can be a factor for an engine of that displacement.
In the 15cc (.90) class, personally, I think the trade off between the CDI version and the more expensive gas/glow version is a poor tradeoff in my book. Most .90 size models have room for the new, smaller RC/Ecell ignitions and in this size class, running a separate ignition battery is soooo 20th Century
At our field we have a pair of Sig 4 Star 64's, one (mine) running the Evo 15cc with a Tech-Aero IBEC, the other has an OS GT15cc, also with Tech-Aero IBEC. Both run very well, but the OS GT15cc is the clear winner on many counts. Since my Evo 15cc uses a 1/4" spark plug, I could try the OS gas/glow plug, but I don't think I want to blow 13 bucks just to try one of these plugs.
I have over 55 years running glow engines and only 6 years running gas/ignition engines. For me, an ignition engine beats glow ignition any day...but that's just me
Pete
The 10cc glow/gas ignition engine certainly is interesting, since the space needed for, and weight of the CDI ignition module can be a factor for an engine of that displacement.
In the 15cc (.90) class, personally, I think the trade off between the CDI version and the more expensive gas/glow version is a poor tradeoff in my book. Most .90 size models have room for the new, smaller RC/Ecell ignitions and in this size class, running a separate ignition battery is soooo 20th Century
At our field we have a pair of Sig 4 Star 64's, one (mine) running the Evo 15cc with a Tech-Aero IBEC, the other has an OS GT15cc, also with Tech-Aero IBEC. Both run very well, but the OS GT15cc is the clear winner on many counts. Since my Evo 15cc uses a 1/4" spark plug, I could try the OS gas/glow plug, but I don't think I want to blow 13 bucks just to try one of these plugs.
I have over 55 years running glow engines and only 6 years running gas/ignition engines. For me, an ignition engine beats glow ignition any day...but that's just me
Pete
06-06-2015, 02:47 PM
#44
43 years for me, Pete. I was smitten by one Cox .049 so many years ago... and have owned and flown at least 75 different glow engines and 20 different diesels, from .010 to 9 cylinder radials and everything in between. For the past 10 years I have been almost exclusively gas... GAS beats GLOW hands down.
Now, if only we had some great personal testimony and video of these little O.S. glow/gassers in action (not just on the bench), we might all learn something!
Now, if only we had some great personal testimony and video of these little O.S. glow/gassers in action (not just on the bench), we might all learn something!
06-22-2015, 04:43 AM
#45
OS 10cc GX glow/gas vs. Saito FG11 Gas vs. Evolution 10cc Gas
Hi Fellas,
I'd like to join in on the discussion because I am seriously considering either and EVO 10cc, Saito FG11, or the OS 10cc GX Glow/Gas for my next project. I have very little experience with gas R/C engines, though, but the one thing I didn't see anybody mention in this thread (unless I missed it), was discussion about the difference in the mess between Glow vs. Gas? I mean, I hate nitro fuel because of how much of an oily greasy mess it makes. It ruins my finish and saturates the wood airframes. That is a BIG reason what I am looking favorably on getting into gasoline power - that plus the HUGE cost savings in fuel.
Could somebody possible speak to this aspect of these engines? Right now, I am leaning more towards the OS 10cc GX Glo/Gas because I believe you guys are right that trying to place the CDI module - especially in smaller planes - will be pretty difficult.
Thx - Tom
I'd like to join in on the discussion because I am seriously considering either and EVO 10cc, Saito FG11, or the OS 10cc GX Glow/Gas for my next project. I have very little experience with gas R/C engines, though, but the one thing I didn't see anybody mention in this thread (unless I missed it), was discussion about the difference in the mess between Glow vs. Gas? I mean, I hate nitro fuel because of how much of an oily greasy mess it makes. It ruins my finish and saturates the wood airframes. That is a BIG reason what I am looking favorably on getting into gasoline power - that plus the HUGE cost savings in fuel.
Could somebody possible speak to this aspect of these engines? Right now, I am leaning more towards the OS 10cc GX Glo/Gas because I believe you guys are right that trying to place the CDI module - especially in smaller planes - will be pretty difficult.
Thx - Tom
06-22-2015, 05:29 AM
#46
Hi Fellas,
I'd like to join in on the discussion because I am seriously considering either and EVO 10cc, Saito FG11, or the OS 10cc GX Glow/Gas for my next project. I have very little experience with gas R/C engines, though, but the one thing I didn't see anybody mention in this thread (unless I missed it), was discussion about the difference in the mess between Glow vs. Gas? I mean, I hate nitro fuel because of how much of an oily greasy mess it makes. It ruins my finish and saturates the wood airframes. That is a BIG reason what I am looking favorably on getting into gasoline power - that plus the HUGE cost savings in fuel.
Could somebody possible speak to this aspect of these engines? Right now, I am leaning more towards the OS 10cc GX Glo/Gas because I believe you guys are right that trying to place the CDI module - especially in smaller planes - will be pretty difficult.
Thx - Tom
I'd like to join in on the discussion because I am seriously considering either and EVO 10cc, Saito FG11, or the OS 10cc GX Glow/Gas for my next project. I have very little experience with gas R/C engines, though, but the one thing I didn't see anybody mention in this thread (unless I missed it), was discussion about the difference in the mess between Glow vs. Gas? I mean, I hate nitro fuel because of how much of an oily greasy mess it makes. It ruins my finish and saturates the wood airframes. That is a BIG reason what I am looking favorably on getting into gasoline power - that plus the HUGE cost savings in fuel.
Could somebody possible speak to this aspect of these engines? Right now, I am leaning more towards the OS 10cc GX Glo/Gas because I believe you guys are right that trying to place the CDI module - especially in smaller planes - will be pretty difficult.
Thx - Tom
06-22-2015, 07:47 AM
#47
Hi Fellas,
I'd like to join in on the discussion because I am seriously considering either and EVO 10cc, Saito FG11, or the OS 10cc GX Glow/Gas for my next project. I have very little experience with gas R/C engines, though, but the one thing I didn't see anybody mention in this thread (unless I missed it), was discussion about the difference in the mess between Glow vs. Gas? I mean, I hate nitro fuel because of how much of an oily greasy mess it makes. It ruins my finish and saturates the wood airframes. That is a BIG reason what I am looking favorably on getting into gasoline power - that plus the HUGE cost savings in fuel.
Could somebody possible speak to this aspect of these engines? Right now, I am leaning more towards the OS 10cc GX Glo/Gas because I believe you guys are right that trying to place the CDI module - especially in smaller planes - will be pretty difficult.
Thx - Tom
I'd like to join in on the discussion because I am seriously considering either and EVO 10cc, Saito FG11, or the OS 10cc GX Glow/Gas for my next project. I have very little experience with gas R/C engines, though, but the one thing I didn't see anybody mention in this thread (unless I missed it), was discussion about the difference in the mess between Glow vs. Gas? I mean, I hate nitro fuel because of how much of an oily greasy mess it makes. It ruins my finish and saturates the wood airframes. That is a BIG reason what I am looking favorably on getting into gasoline power - that plus the HUGE cost savings in fuel.
Could somebody possible speak to this aspect of these engines? Right now, I am leaning more towards the OS 10cc GX Glo/Gas because I believe you guys are right that trying to place the CDI module - especially in smaller planes - will be pretty difficult.
Thx - Tom
06-22-2015, 08:16 AM
#48
Tom, one the best reasons to move to gas (and there are many) IS the lack of mess. Consider: Even with a 20:1 gas/oil mix, a gasser is running at only 5% oil. Compare this with the "leanest" glow mix of 16% oil and you can begin to easily see the difference in mess. Many gassers require only 50:1 gas/oil mix, which reduces oil to only 2% !! Further, the slime that comes out of a gasser exhaust is not nearly as hard on a model's finish as is methanol, nitro and oil. You can get away with store-bought Rustoleum and Krylon paints or any of the iron-on coverings. Not true with glow. And good luck finding "fuel proof" finishing supplies these days online or at your local hobby shop. Need more? Gas engines tend to be 'set and forget' carburetion. Once broken in and set up, you rarely have to mess with the needles. Gassers have pumper carburetors which make tank placement non-critical and can allow tank placement directly over the model's CG. I still love the nostalgia of glow engines and they remain excellent, practical powerplants. But like so many things, technology forges ahead and eventually renders what was the 'standard,' obsolete.
On the flipside, some features that make gas engines attractive, like the pumper carb and CDI, could be applied to glow engines if desired. The drawback from that is added complexity, which could be a detractor when the carb or ignition need repair or maintenance. So, there are pros and cons to gas vs. glow. That is why most of us still run glow as well as gas because of the benefits of each. It may seem too domestic to us guys, but a little bit of Windex and paper towels help a lot, it cleans the dirt and grass as well as oil slime.
06-22-2015, 08:39 AM
#50
Not sure what others have experienced, but a guy at the club recently purchased an NGH 17cc gasser that runs great and is easy to operate. It has a standard Walbro carb instead of the propriety designs that are used by OS, Evo, Saito. I guess that is another lower cost option.