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G38 On Coleman Fuel

Old 08-01-2015, 08:47 AM
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Propworn
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Default G38 On Coleman Fuel

Here is a G38 running on Coleman Camp Fuel with a 32 to 1 oil mix using Amsoil Saber Professional. Engine is throwing an 18X8 prop. Moving the throttle around a bit to see if it hesitates or wants to stall, seems nice with very good response. Think I will pat it on the bum and call it done. I am tuning this for a friend who cannot stand the smell of gasoline. He's willing to spend the camp fuel prices who am I to question it.


Dennis


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq5bp9HnK3w
Old 08-01-2015, 10:02 AM
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kmeyers
 
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Well as long as you use the word "friend". You should tell him Coleman fuel has an octane of 50-60, it burns hot, depending on the application you could get pre-ignition and it will destroy the engine in no time at all if you run at a high load.

But, it does not smell.
.02 from me.
Old 08-01-2015, 01:14 PM
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w8ye
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I've seen model engines (Brison twins) run & fly on Coleman many times. I couldn't hear, see, feel, or smell anything wrong with their operation. If they run "hot" I sure couldn't feel it?

The octane is closer to 70 but still way below regular pump gasoline.

I just use regular pump gasoline for Coleman is about 5 times more expensive.

Coleman seems to stay stable over the long term even when mixed with oil.

Last edited by w8ye; 08-01-2015 at 01:17 PM.
Old 08-01-2015, 02:39 PM
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Propworn
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Originally Posted by w8ye
I've seen model engines (Brison twins) run & fly on Coleman many times. I couldn't hear, see, feel, or smell anything wrong with their operation. If they run "hot" I sure couldn't feel it?

The octane is closer to 70 but still way below regular pump gasoline.

I just use regular pump gasoline for Coleman is about 5 times more expensive.

Coleman seems to stay stable over the long term even when mixed with oil.
Absolutely never heard, had or experienced any problem with using Coleman fuel just very expensive like you mentioned. Its not the first one I have set up for Coleman fuel probably won't be the last. Even with the 18X8 prop it ran wide open for most of an 8 oz tank and it certainly seemed cooler than with regular gas. I had my hands on the cylinder head not to long after I shut it off. No hot noise no clinking everything just fine as usual.

Dennis
Old 08-01-2015, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kmeyers
Well as long as you use the word "friend". You should tell him Coleman fuel has an octane of 50-60, it burns hot, depending on the application you could get pre-ignition and it will destroy the engine in no time at all if you run at a high load.

But, it does not smell.
.02 from me.
Hello Friend.

I use Colemans and Klotz in my Zenoah G23 with ECDI. Never any of the problems you have mentioned. Many boatracers and heli flyers also use Colemans with no problems at all. Have you had personal experience with the problems you say could happen, or are you just saying what many naysayers do?.
But, what you also say that I do agree with, is: "it does not smell" bad like pump gas! And, like W8YE says: it "seems to stay stable over the long term even when mixed with oil."

Sincerely, Richard
Old 08-02-2015, 01:22 PM
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Coleman Fuel = Naptha
Gasoline= Toluene 0-30~%, Hexane 5-25~%, Xylene 0-25~%, Octane (Isomers) 0-18.5~%, Ethanol 0-10~%
Most of the info I have read supports the basic differences I pointed out.
You may do as you wish.
I am not an S.A.E. certified engineer, but, I play one on TV.

The true answer lies in data I do not have and never will.

10s electric and a 90 amp ESC will out perform a G38 and there is no smell either!
Old 08-02-2015, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kmeyers
...
I am not an S.A.E. certified engineer, but, I play one on TV.
10s electric and a 90 amp ESC will out perform a G38 and there is no smell either!
So you are an actor with a pretense for reality? That explains a lot. I won't even ask your premise for the statement about the G38 vs electric.
Old 08-02-2015, 04:20 PM
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Propworn
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2 many people for 2 many years have been running 2 many engines without a hint of problem on the camp fuel to give much credence 2 KMirrors poor reviews of a fuel he has never put to the test himself.

Maynard Hill built a model that flew across the Atlantic on a converted OS engine on a gallon of Coleman fuel over 38 hours and over 3000kms non stop without a problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sp..._Butts%27_Farm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KEIq76JE7o

Last edited by Propworn; 08-02-2015 at 04:27 PM.
Old 08-02-2015, 04:28 PM
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ahicks
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Geez, with a running engine in front of you, isn't that enough proof? Nobody trying to tear your arm out by the roots. If you don't like the concept, don't use it. Why the need to say it won't work?

Too many people doing that today. If you don't think it will work, give the guy that says it does room to prove it. That way we all learn/come out ahead.
Old 08-03-2015, 08:09 AM
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I too am using Coleman fuel in the appropriate device shown below and it works just fine, as some have described. I can also confirm that it runs hot, just as others have said. *running for my life*
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:56 PM
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Low octane fuel by itself doesn't burn hotter than high octane fuel. The danger of low octane fuel is detonation. But, small displacement engines are highly resistant to detonation by their nature so you can run low octane fuel without problems.
Old 08-03-2015, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocketman_
I too am using Coleman fuel in the appropriate device shown below and it works just fine, as some have described. I can also confirm that it runs hot, just as others have said. *running for my life*
Can you spell "Caproni Stipa Flying Barrel"? Just needs some flying surfaces.

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Old 08-03-2015, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocketman_
I too am using Coleman fuel in the appropriate device shown below and it works just fine, as some have described. I can also confirm that it runs hot, just as others have said. *running for my life*
HA HA!! Too cool! Great post! And it reflects my personal sentiments about using Coleman fuel to fly with as well. I won't even get started on the Amsoil part.....

The owner/originator of CH Ignitions did do tests and verified that the Coleman fuel runs hotter. That correlates with my experience as well. Do it at your own risk. Most modern model engine manufacturers spec 89 octane fuel, or at least 87. The 50 to 70 octane (depending on your source of info), of Coleman fuel isn't even close....

AV8TOR

Last edited by av8tor1977; 08-03-2015 at 08:44 PM.
Old 08-04-2015, 04:40 AM
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A flying buddy of mine had been running coleman fuel in his heli's and planes for years and for years he had fought overheating engines ,broken cranks and pistons on Zenoah and DLE engines . I finally persuaded him to use pump gas and then avgas . After switching from coleman fuel he has had no more overheating nor any broken engines. It isnt imperical proof that coleman fuel was the cause but he doesnt have the problems he had prior to switching..
Old 08-04-2015, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by av8tor1977
HA HA!! Too cool! Great post! And it reflects my personal sentiments about using Coleman fuel to fly with as well. I won't even get started on the Amsoil part.....

The owner/originator of CH Ignitions did do tests and verified that the Coleman fuel runs hotter. That correlates with my experience as well. Do it at your own risk. Most modern model engine manufacturers spec 89 octane fuel, or at least 87. The 50 to 70 octane (depending on your source of info), of Coleman fuel isn't even close....

AV8TOR
I agree that Coleman fuel may not be for everyone. If I could get non-ethanol contaminated gasoline or AvGas, I might not use Coleman's, if only because of it's cost, around $12.00/gallon at Wally World. And AvGas has lead in it. But I cannot stand the smell of pump gasoline as I can get it. It never used to smell that bad, and I used to use it for everything, including to wash my hands and paintbrushes (maybe all the lead has had an effect). I was out on a boat last week and the gasoline smell from the 2S exhaust kept me from going back out again, and I love boating. TEHO (to each his own).

Some pump gas users recommend using Coleman's or Avgas for the final run of their engines, but not for flying. A purge of pump gas with Coleman's (and oil of course) removes the crap gas from the carb and engine internals. and leaves stable fuel in the tank, if you choose to do that.

JMHO,
Sincerely, Richard
Old 08-04-2015, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by spaceworm
I agree that Coleman fuel may not be for everyone. If I could get non-ethanol contaminated gasoline or AvGas, I might not use Coleman's, if only because of it's cost, around $12.00/gallon at Wally World. And AvGas has lead in it. But I cannot stand the smell of pump gasoline as I can get it. It never used to smell that bad, and I used to use it for everything, including to wash my hands and paintbrushes (maybe all the lead has had an effect). I was out on a boat last week and the gasoline smell from the 2S exhaust kept me from going back out again, and I love boating. TEHO (to each his own).

Some pump gas users recommend using Coleman's or Avgas for the final run of their engines, but not for flying. A purge of pump gas with Coleman's (and oil of course) removes the crap gas from the carb and engine internals. and leaves stable fuel in the tank, if you choose to do that.

JMHO,
Sincerely, Richard
I'm one of those that uses Coleman fuel to purge the fuel system after flying, and then I leave it in the tank to keep the fuel lines and carb diaphragms soft and pliable. But I would never fly with it.

The Avgas will work, you just need to check the spark plug more often for lead fouling. It has almost no smell, and is very stable. It will last a long time left in the tank and fuel system without going bad and/or doing damage. Many small airports will fill up a 5 gallon can for you. Maybe take some pics of your plane to show them what you want to use it for.... It runs somewhere around 5 bucks a gallon. Too bad they did away with the 80/87 Avgas years ago, as that would have been even better. Anyway, I often buy 100 octane Avgas for my race boat and usually have no problems getting it at a small airport. They usually let me pull the boat right into the fueling area, and they fill up its tank and the extra 5 gallon tanks too.

I do agree with how bad auto gas smells these days. I also used it for a lot of things you shouldn't, like cleaning parts and stuff. Now, it doesn't even work well for that. It will hardly melt grease and oil!!

AV8TOR
Old 08-04-2015, 01:22 PM
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I have run several engines on Colman fuel (Quadra, G38, G23 and others) with no problems. On engines this size, octane rateings have no meaning, i.e. little or no difference in performance with different octane ratings. Clarence Lee (a well known engine expert) has often commented on the fact that Colman fuel works well and that octane levels have little effect on these small 2 cycle engines.
Old 08-04-2015, 01:38 PM
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The engines running 7000 rpm and with the small combustion chamber compared with an automobile, Spark knock is not such a consideration.
Old 08-04-2015, 02:42 PM
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We have been using AVGAS which we buy at the airport ever since finding ethanol free gas at the pump became an issue. It has virtually no fuel odor which was a nice bonus for us but may be what you need to avoid the fumes.....

In the 5 years we have been using it exclusively, which includes every type of engine from a 10cc gas engine to a 400cc moki radial and everything in between, we have had no problems whatsoever

Last edited by Frank Ts Stuff; 08-04-2015 at 02:46 PM.
Old 08-05-2015, 07:43 AM
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+1 on avgas been using it sense I got my first gas engine 30 years back, an added advantage is it stores well with out any fuel stabilizer, but a good one can also prevent it from collecting moisture. You can leave it in your fuel system, and it does not gum up, But I don't recommend leaving any in the tank.

Cheers

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