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Saito's New Engine: FG-90R3

Old 03-11-2017, 03:42 PM
  #126  
kevarc
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Ran another tank through mine this one mostly around half throttle and above. All cylinders were around 180 most of the time and i was using a 24x12 2 blade prop.
The rpm at half throttle was about 5,000 and it went up to around 6000 near full. As I approached full the rpm dropped off.
As i reduced the throttle .the rpm would pick back up. Other than that the throttle response was pretty smooth.
I have watched the tuning video Saito has and not sure how to apply it to the gas motor.
I reduced the low speed until the rpm dropped and the opened a half turn.
Adjusted the high speed a little but did not want to get it too lean.
Any advice on how to go about the tuning would be appreciated.
Thanks
Kevin
Old 03-11-2017, 04:48 PM
  #127  
jws_aces
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Kevin,

Sounds like you are on the right track. I know everone wants it run smooth but if you want it to live make sure it stays cool at all throttle positions. I tuned mine with no cowl and reading temps. I run it so rich that once I crossed mid throttle it would start to cool. If I left the throttle about 40% it would get the hottest, about 185 on the top cylinder head case. At that point I knew it would overheat in the air with the cowl and baffles. I sure everyone will get different results that I have just becareful when leaning to make it run perfect.

Here was my last flight about 2 weeks ago. I did have to land and hook up the battery for the retracts. It's kind of long. Hope it helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1_CgmRROsA&t=232s
Old 03-11-2017, 05:27 PM
  #128  
Supermod56
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Originally Posted by kevarc
Ran another tank through mine this one mostly around half throttle and above. All cylinders were around 180 most of the time and i was using a 24x12 2 blade prop.
The rpm at half throttle was about 5,000 and it went up to around 6000 near full. As I approached full the rpm dropped off.
As i reduced the throttle .the rpm would pick back up. Other than that the throttle response was pretty smooth.
I have watched the tuning video Saito has and not sure how to apply it to the gas motor.
I reduced the low speed until the rpm dropped and the opened a half turn.
Adjusted the high speed a little but did not want to get it too lean.
Any advice on how to go about the tuning would be appreciated.
Thanks
Kevin
Kevin, I set the high speed about 1/8 turn richer from max RPM and leave it there, it has a slight miss on the test stand. Do the low speed until it transitions good, then richen it up about 1/8. Lot of people try to get max power, good way to blow it up. If the weather ever cooperates I'll get the 190 up and see how it does in flight, I don't plan to run it at full power more than a few seconds anyway, should be fine. FYI my needles are 4 turns low, 2-3/4 high.
Tom
Old 03-12-2017, 07:02 AM
  #129  
cordline
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Thanks Jeff for this Video and helpfull advice. I am about to maiden a Valley 92" FW190 with a stock 84 and i was thinking along the same lines, keep it rich to help keep this engine cool. Do you know what needle setting you ended up with ??
All the best

Wayne
Old 03-12-2017, 11:37 AM
  #130  
opspro
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Hi Lucky Macy
Getting about 5800 with the 84. No info on the 90. Need some better weather.
Got the Beila 3 blade from TBM. Don't know where to get them now.
My shop is in West Chester. You should come over and see the Saito.

Bob
Old 03-12-2017, 01:39 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by opspro
Hi Lucky Macy
Getting about 5800 with the 84. No info on the 90. Need some better weather.
Got the Beila 3 blade from TBM. Don't know where to get them now.
My shop is in West Chester. You should come over and see the Saito.

Bob

Hi Bob,
What happened Troy built? Went to their website recently and it doesn't exist! Missed the memo on that one. How does the blade actually fly?
Old 03-12-2017, 02:30 PM
  #132  
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http://www.aircraftinternational.com...ropellers.aspx
Order many from here. Great service.
Old 03-12-2017, 02:36 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by cordline
Thanks Jeff for this Video and helpfull advice. I am about to maiden a Valley 92" FW190 with a stock 84 and i was thinking along the same lines, keep it rich to help keep this engine cool. Do you know what needle setting you ended up with ??
All the best

Wayne
Wayne is kinda of funny to me because I watch a guy 2 years ago with a Valley Fw190 put the 84cc on it. I wanted mine at first for a Meister Scale p47 but ended up on the TF fw190 after watching a lot of you tube videos. The guy that had the Valley Fw190 was the first one I watched that figured out he had to run it really rich to get all the cylinders to fire. I think he has pulled them down now.

That gave me the idea of tuning the stock motor the way i did. Only if I had done the first time I would have saved a lot of money.

ps 2 more flights today. no issues.
Old 03-14-2017, 08:59 AM
  #134  
opspro
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I missed the memo too. Went to check out an ESM model I was interested in and no Troy Built.
FW190 flies great with 3 blade.
Old 03-24-2017, 06:28 AM
  #135  
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Hi Jeff,

Maiden flight on the Valley today and the engine went great ! 61/2 on the high and about 4 3/4 on the low. Put the gun on the cyl heads when it landed and cool as a cucumber.
I could maybe lean it a bit on the low by a fraction but i think i will just leave it be for a for now. Plenty of power spinning a Menz 22x12 three blade at 5600 on the ground and unloads nicely in the air without being under propped. Cheers for sharing your experiance i think it is good advice.
It will be interesting how the FG90 goes ! If i had one i would be treating it the same way for sure.

Cheers

Wayne
Old 03-24-2017, 06:35 AM
  #136  
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I found a little K&N Air filter at a Speed shop. I turned the Inlet pipe down a bit so the size 9/16 works a treat. Pics to follow.

Last edited by cordline; 03-24-2017 at 06:50 AM.
Old 03-24-2017, 06:58 AM
  #137  
jws_aces
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Originally Posted by cordline
Hi Jeff,

Maiden flight on the Valley today and the engine went great ! 61/2 on the high and about 4 3/4 on the low. Put the gun on the cyl heads when it landed and cool as a cucumber.
I could maybe lean it a bit on the low by a fraction but i think i will just leave it be for a for now. Plenty of power spinning a Menz 22x12 three blade at 5600 on the ground and unloads nicely in the air without being under propped. Cheers for sharing your experiance i think it is good advice.
It will be interesting how the FG90 goes ! If i had one i would be treating it the same way for sure.

Cheers

Wayne
Great! I recommend running a gallon at least thru before thinking about leaning it out. You might consider a xaor wood 24x12. I painted mine and love it over the carbon fiber. The sound and it will pull the plane thru the air and cool the engine better. I flew with the 24x10 Carbon Menz and like the wood painted sound better.

Congrats, keep us up to date.
Old 03-24-2017, 05:19 PM
  #138  
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Default Keleo exhaust fuel tank pressure effectiveness

What has been the experience on the effectiveness of pressurizing the fuel tank from the exhaust and how much exhaust residue get blown out the fitting and goes back into the fuel tank?
Old 03-24-2017, 06:11 PM
  #139  
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Old 03-25-2017, 03:51 AM
  #140  
jws_aces
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Originally Posted by cordline
[attach=config]2206905[/attach][attach=config]2206906[/attach][attach=config]2206907[/attach]
love the spinner and 3 blade. Very nice
Old 03-25-2017, 01:25 PM
  #141  
kevarc
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Originally Posted by luckymacy
What has been the experience on the effectiveness of pressurizing the fuel tank from the exhaust and how much exhaust residue get blown out the fitting and goes back into the fuel tank?
That is a good question. After three tanks I do notice a bit of discoloration in the tank. The first two tanks were very rich.
Not sure if good, bad or??
Old 03-25-2017, 05:29 PM
  #142  
Supermod56
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You shouldn't have to pressurize the tank, the Saito carb has a pump in it, if you take it off you will see a groove cut in the manifold, they use intake vacuum to pulse the pump. I use the fitting on my Keleo ring for smoke.
Tom
Old 03-25-2017, 05:50 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by luckymacy
What has been the experience on the effectiveness of pressurizing the fuel tank from the exhaust and how much exhaust residue get blown out the fitting and goes back into the fuel tank?
Exhaust pressure can't hurt...my evolution 160 requires it and it has a diaphragm carb as well
Old 03-26-2017, 04:39 AM
  #144  
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No need to force feed the fuel if the tank is close to the carb, keep it standard.
Old 03-26-2017, 11:18 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by cordline
No need to force feed the fuel if the tank is close to the carb, keep it standard.
For all you Ray English fans, Ray says pressurize the tank
Old 03-26-2017, 08:40 PM
  #146  
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...and Kelvin (Keleo) includes the pressure nipple on the ring at Ray's suggestion.
Old 04-08-2017, 04:05 AM
  #147  
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Another 2 flights on the stock 84, going great. Max 154 f on #1 cylinder after landing. I removed the rocker cover on the top cylinder and there is plenty of oil everywhere with the rich settings. Time to leave it alone and enjoy the aircraft.
Old 04-09-2017, 01:23 PM
  #148  
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You cant use the "after landing" temp reading for anything other than that! It will cool down so quickly.
Old 04-10-2017, 02:48 AM
  #149  
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I disagree!! Just like on the full size, CHT will remain for some time which is why EGT (exhaust gas temp) is the preferable method when adjusting mixture.
While on the subject, i am an Aircraft engineer and used to look after a fleet of 10 full size Top Dressing aircraft for an operator. His policy was to leave the Engine at a full rich setting for exactly the same reasons under discussion.His quote was "fuel is cheaper than engine overhaul" In 7 years i did not change a single cylinder on any of his aircraft, they did not suffer heat stress because of the cooling provided by a rich setting to all cylinders, even the rear ones. My OPINION,,leave the engine STANDARD and don't look for RPMs or even cyl temps and follow the advice as given by Jeff above.
Old 04-23-2017, 03:35 PM
  #150  
kevarc
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I finally put the maiden on my Corsair!
You can hear the engine is rough on take off, and on the second circuit I throttle back half and it smooths out.
After the flight I adjusted the high needle to max RPM and backed it off 1/8 as suggested above.
I am getting about 6,000 RPM.
Again there is hardly any difference between half throttle and full?
Is that typical of these engines?
The throttle response is smooth otherwise.
Just not sure what to to from here.
Kevin

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