First Place Engines 2.4 - Replacement Carb?
12-11-2018, 06:02 AM
#1
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sunrise,
FL
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First Place Engines 2.4 - Replacement Carb?
I purchased a 1/4 Scale B-USA Fokker DR-1 that has a FPE 2.4 (40CC) engine on it. The carb will not draw gas so I was going to put a new carb on it. It has been sitting for several years. I am told the carb is obsolete and not made any longer. I am also told they do not make the carb rebuild kits any longer and there is no reference to a equivalent replacement carb to purchase.
It is a Walbro WT 106. They make a WT106-1 but not sure if it would work. Has anyone figured out a replacement carb?
I thought of putting a DA-35 on it but I would then have to cut a hole in the firewall for the rear carb engine to work.
I have thought of putting a G-26 on it as recommended by B-USA but it comes in at 20 Lbs which is 5 pounds heavier than B-USA says it should weigh so concerned about having enough power.,..
It is a Walbro WT 106. They make a WT106-1 but not sure if it would work. Has anyone figured out a replacement carb?
I thought of putting a DA-35 on it but I would then have to cut a hole in the firewall for the rear carb engine to work.
I have thought of putting a G-26 on it as recommended by B-USA but it comes in at 20 Lbs which is 5 pounds heavier than B-USA says it should weigh so concerned about having enough power.,..
12-11-2018, 07:52 AM
#3
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sunrise,
FL
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had forgotten about Brison engines. I have been flying jets for many years and am just getting back into prop planes. Maybe I will buy a Brison 2.4 and move forward. I used to have Sachs dolmar engines prior to them being Brison. I had been looking at DA - DLE the rear carb type engines until you reminded me of Brison...
Thank You for the comment!!!
Thank You for the comment!!!
12-11-2018, 10:38 AM
#5
My Feedback: (19)
As CK1 said, the Brison 2.4 and 3.2 used the WT-76 as did a bunch of other similar sized Sachs based engines. The only remaining WT 76 that is still produced has a funky throttle and choke setup that is not really RC airplane friendly so I don't recommend it. I can't believe that either the K10-WAT or K20-WAT Walbro carb kit won't work on your WT106. I have never run into a WT series carb that one of these kits won't work on. I think your info source didn't research the matter very well. Brison engines have not been produced for several years so looking that route is pretty much like researching FPE. FPE, Brison, FOX and Taurus among other engines all used the same cylinders and carbs on their engines .... yes a few exceptions but very few.
I would recommend one of the newer carbs as used on engines like the DLE 30 /35, EME 35, etc. These are available and are proven to work on your engine. You need an internal pressure port carb and the venturi size is usually 32/64" as cast (2 digit 32) just inside the intake side of the carb on the venturi. Check with companies like Valley View RC or MIle High RC as they have Walbro carbs that will work just fine (direct replacement) on your FPE or similar engine. I've done this before! I can give you carb numbers if you want them but just go to the websites of the above companies and you will see carbs that will work. If you are dead set on an older carb, I have several new or lightly used WT-76 I would part with. Why? The newer carbs work better.
I would recommend one of the newer carbs as used on engines like the DLE 30 /35, EME 35, etc. These are available and are proven to work on your engine. You need an internal pressure port carb and the venturi size is usually 32/64" as cast (2 digit 32) just inside the intake side of the carb on the venturi. Check with companies like Valley View RC or MIle High RC as they have Walbro carbs that will work just fine (direct replacement) on your FPE or similar engine. I've done this before! I can give you carb numbers if you want them but just go to the websites of the above companies and you will see carbs that will work. If you are dead set on an older carb, I have several new or lightly used WT-76 I would part with. Why? The newer carbs work better.
12-11-2018, 11:23 AM
#6
For those interested, the new WT"s with the spring loaded choke can be modified back to to "normal" here.
Contact Us - AeroScott Model Engine Repair
Dan
Contact Us - AeroScott Model Engine Repair
Dan
12-11-2018, 11:51 AM
#7
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sunrise,
FL
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for the information. I didn't know Brison quit making engines. The web site showed the 2.4 in stock. I'll have to check on that. The extra weight and the non rear mounted carb like DLE and DA would be good in this case for the installation (w/out having to modify the firewall)
A lot of good information given. I do not have knowledge of some of what you said but I will contact those companies to see if they have a carb that will work.
Thank you for the information and taking the time to post.
A lot of good information given. I do not have knowledge of some of what you said but I will contact those companies to see if they have a carb that will work.
Thank you for the information and taking the time to post.
12-11-2018, 12:49 PM
#8
My Feedback: (19)
I currently have (2) Brison 2.4 engines and have owned the FPE 2.4 in the past. All good engines but I much prefer the Brison over the FPE for several personal preference reasons. Still own a FPE 4.2.
Which ignition does your FPE 2.4 have? They came with either the Ridge Ignition or the CH. The CH, synchro spark equipped version was more powerful by quite a bit due to the Ridge being fixed timing with less than optimal advance for max power. Both versions ran well and were quality engines.
Regarding Brison, their website is horribly out of date. The current owner in Canada hasn't produced a lot of engines since they took over the company from Gary. None of these engines are seen much these days as it is almost impossible for them to produce engines at a price that competes with the Chinese engines. Just the cylinder and piston alone can cost almost as much as some of the cheaper Chinese engines. Hard to stay in business with that kind of competition regardless of quallity. Some of the popular Sachs cylinders and parts these engines used are also no longer available.
Which ignition does your FPE 2.4 have? They came with either the Ridge Ignition or the CH. The CH, synchro spark equipped version was more powerful by quite a bit due to the Ridge being fixed timing with less than optimal advance for max power. Both versions ran well and were quality engines.
Regarding Brison, their website is horribly out of date. The current owner in Canada hasn't produced a lot of engines since they took over the company from Gary. None of these engines are seen much these days as it is almost impossible for them to produce engines at a price that competes with the Chinese engines. Just the cylinder and piston alone can cost almost as much as some of the cheaper Chinese engines. Hard to stay in business with that kind of competition regardless of quallity. Some of the popular Sachs cylinders and parts these engines used are also no longer available.
12-11-2018, 05:07 PM
#9
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sunrise,
FL
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mine has the fixed ridge ignition. I have never run it. when i force gas into the carb it will pop so i know the ignition is working but the internal parts of the carb stay dry and it will not draw gas at all. I have owned Sachs and Brison engines way back when and i liked them. the heavier weight is good in warbirds.
The WWI Fokker DR-1 has the firewall set up for the FPE / Brison type motors. It is all done and painted. Balances perfectly so that is why I was trying to stick with the same type of engine. I have a DA-35 but i would have to add lead weight and cut a hole in the firewall / modify which I don't mind doing during the build but was trying to avoid on the completed airframe
The WWI Fokker DR-1 has the firewall set up for the FPE / Brison type motors. It is all done and painted. Balances perfectly so that is why I was trying to stick with the same type of engine. I have a DA-35 but i would have to add lead weight and cut a hole in the firewall / modify which I don't mind doing during the build but was trying to avoid on the completed airframe
12-13-2018, 05:49 AM
#11
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sunrise,
FL
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the information.
Mile High RC says he can't help me but did say like you that he thinks the K10-WAT carb kit would work.
I have not heard anything back from Valley View RC as of yet. They do show some carbs on website. Would you know which I should order? My engine does have a gas hose from carb to a plate between carb and motor as it appears that makes a difference in which carb to purchase...
Any info is appreciated
Mile High RC says he can't help me but did say like you that he thinks the K10-WAT carb kit would work.
I have not heard anything back from Valley View RC as of yet. They do show some carbs on website. Would you know which I should order? My engine does have a gas hose from carb to a plate between carb and motor as it appears that makes a difference in which carb to purchase...
Any info is appreciated
12-13-2018, 06:05 AM
#12
If you have an external pulse line on a Brison it is something that has been added . The Brison , A&M , Fox engines originaly used an internal pulse passage in the isolation block . You can either use a carb that utilizes and external pulse line or you can block that external port at the isolation mount and use and internal pulse port carb .As a reference the DLE 35 uses an internal pulse port and DLE 55 uses an external pulse port ( the hose that runs between the isolation block and the carb.)
12-13-2018, 07:47 AM
#15
Most of the carbs used on 40 to 60cc use very similar ventury bore sizes . I am not sure about the DLE 40cc twin as to whether it is internal or external pulse line but if it is external that would probably be a good candidate as well . If you can get Valley View RC on the phone they may get you sorted out .
12-13-2018, 08:51 AM
#16
My Feedback: (19)
The FPE2.4 uses an internal pulse line just like the Brison. (See exception and edit below) The normal venturi size for this engine is 32/64", same as most engines in this size range. The DLE 30 / 35 carb will work just fine. I'm sure the one from the DLE 40 would also work. You all are making way more work out of this simple carb replacement than necessary.
Edit: If this is the 2.4 with the nicely machined cylinder fins, these engines used the external pressure line. Carb from DLE 55 (side exhaust) will work. The DLE55 rear exhaust uses internal pressure line. My FPE 2.4 had internal pressure. It just depends on which carb heat isolation spacer was used when the engine was made. If there is a line to the pump side of the carb, it is external pulse. If no line, internal. If you bought any WT series carb for internal porting, you could always use the external cover plate from your old carb and just block off the internal port with a dot of epoxy. I have no clue why Mile High said they couldn't help. They have perfectly acceptable carbs for the requirement regardless of pressure source.
Edit: If this is the 2.4 with the nicely machined cylinder fins, these engines used the external pressure line. Carb from DLE 55 (side exhaust) will work. The DLE55 rear exhaust uses internal pressure line. My FPE 2.4 had internal pressure. It just depends on which carb heat isolation spacer was used when the engine was made. If there is a line to the pump side of the carb, it is external pulse. If no line, internal. If you bought any WT series carb for internal porting, you could always use the external cover plate from your old carb and just block off the internal port with a dot of epoxy. I have no clue why Mile High said they couldn't help. They have perfectly acceptable carbs for the requirement regardless of pressure source.
Last edited by Truckracer; 12-13-2018 at 09:24 AM.
02-07-2019, 06:18 AM
#17
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lee\'s Summit, MO
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I currently have (2) Brison 2.4 engines and have owned the FPE 2.4 in the past. All good engines but I much prefer the Brison over the FPE for several personal preference reasons. Still own a FPE 4.2.
Which ignition does your FPE 2.4 have? They came with either the Ridge Ignition or the CH. The CH, synchro spark equipped version was more powerful by quite a bit due to the Ridge being fixed timing with less than optimal advance for max power. Both versions ran well and were quality engines.
Regarding Brison, their website is horribly out of date. The current owner in Canada hasn't produced a lot of engines since they took over the company from Gary. None of these engines are seen much these days as it is almost impossible for them to produce engines at a price that competes with the Chinese engines. Just the cylinder and piston alone can cost almost as much as some of the cheaper Chinese engines. Hard to stay in business with that kind of competition regardless of quallity. Some of the popular Sachs cylinders and parts these engines used are also no longer available.
Which ignition does your FPE 2.4 have? They came with either the Ridge Ignition or the CH. The CH, synchro spark equipped version was more powerful by quite a bit due to the Ridge being fixed timing with less than optimal advance for max power. Both versions ran well and were quality engines.
Regarding Brison, their website is horribly out of date. The current owner in Canada hasn't produced a lot of engines since they took over the company from Gary. None of these engines are seen much these days as it is almost impossible for them to produce engines at a price that competes with the Chinese engines. Just the cylinder and piston alone can cost almost as much as some of the cheaper Chinese engines. Hard to stay in business with that kind of competition regardless of quallity. Some of the popular Sachs cylinders and parts these engines used are also no longer available.
02-07-2019, 06:26 AM
#18
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lee\'s Summit, MO
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Top Gun,
I own a FPE 2.4 using the CH ignition. This is a powerfull and reliable engine. I guess it is heavier than todays engines, but back in the day it was a top of the line engine. I really like mine.
If you can get your carb problem sorted out I would keep the FPE.
I would like to know if you get a replacement carb, what worked, as I may need to know in the future.
Craig
I own a FPE 2.4 using the CH ignition. This is a powerfull and reliable engine. I guess it is heavier than todays engines, but back in the day it was a top of the line engine. I really like mine.
If you can get your carb problem sorted out I would keep the FPE.
I would like to know if you get a replacement carb, what worked, as I may need to know in the future.
Craig
02-07-2019, 09:30 PM
#20
I have a couple of FPE 2.4's, one in very active use currently. Yes, replacement carbs are impossible to find. BUT - WT carb kits are easy. I've bought them from local lawnmower shops, as well as Amazon, as recently as last summer. They typically have more bits-n-pieces than needed, as they are sold to cover a variety of versions - but always have all the parts needed for the WT-106. Just take care to keep track of exactly what you took off from where, in what order, so you can put the new on exactly the same. Take great care in taking off the choke/throttle butterfly's. It's real easy to bend the shaft they mount on, and then it is really hard to get it straight enough to operate without binding. Also, make some alignment scratches on the butterflys, so you can put them back oriented exactly the way they came out, or there will be a lot of fiddling to get everything to open/close 100%.
The cheapest thing you could try, first, is to carefully take it apart, saving all the gaskets and rubber flap valves (of course, if they are in terrible shape, then get a carb kit). Then run automotive carb cleaner through all the little ports. Reassemble, and see if it runs. Walbro has some great videos on how to rebuild, even if they don't 100% match up to the WT-106 carb.
BTW - the one I am currently running was sent back to Kurt about 4 yrs ago, and he replaced the CH ignition with an RCXcel. I have not checked against my other one, but I do not think he had to retime it, as he did not return a used front end/magnet as he did when upgrading from the old Ridge Machine ignition - and yet he returned all my old ignition parts.
They might be an ounce or two heavier, and run a bit rougher, than a DA 50. But mine currently swings a 20x10 in roughly the same rpm range. Not bad for an engine so "old", and with lower displacement!
The cheapest thing you could try, first, is to carefully take it apart, saving all the gaskets and rubber flap valves (of course, if they are in terrible shape, then get a carb kit). Then run automotive carb cleaner through all the little ports. Reassemble, and see if it runs. Walbro has some great videos on how to rebuild, even if they don't 100% match up to the WT-106 carb.
BTW - the one I am currently running was sent back to Kurt about 4 yrs ago, and he replaced the CH ignition with an RCXcel. I have not checked against my other one, but I do not think he had to retime it, as he did not return a used front end/magnet as he did when upgrading from the old Ridge Machine ignition - and yet he returned all my old ignition parts.
They might be an ounce or two heavier, and run a bit rougher, than a DA 50. But mine currently swings a 20x10 in roughly the same rpm range. Not bad for an engine so "old", and with lower displacement!
