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4 stroke gas engines, recommend

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Old 02-05-2019, 08:04 AM
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KCCraig
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Default 4 stroke gas engines, recommend

Hello, I am getting back into RC after 15 years. Gas engines were new on the scene. I own one FPE 2.4 and one 3.2 engines and really love the convenience and power of gas engines. I am looking around for engines for two new models and am very interested in 4 stroke gassers. One model is a 82" Gee Bee Y. I am considering a Saito FG 30 but it is 600 us dollars. There is apparently a new 3 cylinder, of similar displacement, radial out in Feb,(this month) which will cost around 1k us dollars.. I am thinking it would be cool to mount a radial engine in a round cowl. Extra expense might be worth it. Also looked at YS, and OS, (even more expensive) and evolution engines. I have no experience with evolution engines and cant seem to find much on them. Price on Evolution engines is much cheaper, (Chinese?).

Other plane is a GP super skybolt. I have a couple of 4 stroke glow engines that would work just fine in this plane, but I would really like to move to gas engines. Super Skybolt is 60 to 91 recommended but I saw a you tube video where they mounted a Saito 1.20 golden knight in a super skybolt and it worked very well. Probably eliminated any need for nose weight LOL. I have a 1.20 Saito in glow, never run which I could use. Also a OS .91 in glow.
What would you guys recommend for me?

Thanks for your input
Craig

Last edited by KCCraig; 02-06-2019 at 06:26 AM. Reason: correct engine sizes
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Old 02-05-2019, 10:04 AM
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Default Viper Engin

I am building a P40 enlarged to 1:1 and I wanted to us the viper engin since it has the HP to run the aircraft. I am looking for anyone who could help me build the parts needed to afix a propellar to this engin. Thanks!
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by airborne870724 View Post
I am building a P40 enlarged to 1:1 and I wanted to us the viper engin since it has the HP to run the aircraft. I am looking for anyone who could help me build the parts needed to afix a propellar to this engin. Thanks!
Sounds like you need the services of the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) rather than a model aircraft forum though many of us here are also full scale pilots. That sounds like a very interesting project. You see quite a few all aluminum V-8 engines modified to aircraft use. I've never seen the Viper engine used though. Good luck with your project.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by airborne870724 View Post
I am building a P40 enlarged to 1:1 and I wanted to us the viper engin since it has the HP to run the aircraft. I am looking for anyone who could help me build the parts needed to afix a propellar to this engin. Thanks!
Are you unable to start your own thread?
Is this going to be a radio controlled model or full scale?
Engine builders in the EAA might be a better fit either way because of the size and power of such an engine.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:43 PM
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KCCRAIG, welcome back! First let me tell you I have zero experience with 4 stroke gassers other than watching a few run and reading about them on the various forums. If you are looking at the Saito radials, I would highly suggest you scan the various Saito radial threads here on RCU. Those engines can be good power but they are not without their problems .... especially for their cost. Regarding the Saito single cylinder gas engines, a good friend had one that ran quite well but it constantly stuck the exhaust valve from time to time. They just don't seem to get enough lube to the rocker area and the hot running exhaust valve builds up carbon on the valve stem causing it to stick. Mechanical cleaning returns the engine to normal again until the next time. With so many excellent 2 stroke gas engines on the market, unless you just have to have the 4 stroke sound, I'd go the 2 stroke route but that is just me. The gas radials certainly excel in the sound department.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by KCCraig View Post
Hello, I am getting back into RC after 15 years. Gas engines were new on the scene. I own two FPE 2.4 engines and really love the convenience and power of gas engines. I am looking around for engines for two new models and am very interested in 4 stroke gassers. One model is a 82" Gee Bee Y. I am considering a Saito FG 30 but it is 600 us dollars. There is apparently a new 3 cylinder, of similar displacement, radial out in Feb,(this month) which will cost around 1k us dollars.. I am thinking it would be cool to mount a radial engine in a round cowl. Extra expense might be worth it. Also looked at YS, and OS, (even more expensive) and evolution engines. I have no experience with evolution engines and cant seem to find much on them. Price on Evolution engines is much cheaper, (Chinese?).

Other plane is a GP super skybolt. I have a couple of 4 stroke glow engines that would work just fine in this plane, but I would really like to move to gas engines. Super Skybolt is 60 to 91 recommended but I saw a you tube video where they mounted a Saito 1.20 golden knight in a super skybolt and it worked very well. Probably eliminated any need for nose weight LOL. I have a 1.20 Saito in glow, never run which I could use. Also a OS .91 in glow.
What would you guys recommend for me?

Thanks for your input
Craig
skybolt DLE 20
gee bee y dle30
cheap, easy to use,reliable power, no fancy stuff.
I like to fly, not fiddle.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:47 PM
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Truckracer
You must be a much faster typist then me.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:08 PM
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Like others I think the only plus to a 4 cycle gas is the sound. If scale is your main concern then by all means go down that road. If it were me I would look into the Evolution for the Skybolt. The DLE20 is a nice piece, I have a few. But cowl space is tight on a Skybolt. the Evolution has a front carb and will mount right in place of the old glow. To put a DLE20 on there you will need to butcher the firewall to clear the carb. I also prefer the DLE35RE over the DLE30. The rear mounted muffler tucks in much cleaner. I also think it's a better engine. For one the sound is not offensive. It also seams to have a broader power band.

David
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kmeyers View Post
Truckracer
You must be a much faster typist then me.
I doubt that! It seems that I get slower and make more mistakes every time I sit down at the keyboard. The message was pretty much the same though. But such is life when you get older.
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:51 AM
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Truckracer, Daviopam, and kmyers, thanks for the replys. They have been very helpful. Airborne, you are in wrong website I think.
I have been reading about 4 stroke gassers as much as I can find. I have come to the conclusion that they may not be for me. I should probably stick with 2 cycle gassers, and or glow engines I have in stock.
I have a Rossi 61 which might be good for Skybolt, but might not be enough to get good vertical lines. Also a couple of super tiger 90's. Also a O.S. 91 four stroke, all in glow. I am trying to move away from glow and use exclusively gas engines.
I have noticed that FPE engines seem to be gone, they were my favorite but from what I have read, technology has passed them by. So it may be necessary to purchase a new 2cycle gasser. for the Gee Bee Y.
I was excited about hearing about 4 stroke gassers, but they may not be ready for prime time yet. I need to start researching 2 stroke gassers now. From posts about the Gee Bee, my 120 Saito glow engine is not quite big enough for the Gee Bee. Others feel that it needs a 180. Satio makes a 33cc gaser single cylinder, which is based on the 180 glow. I was thinking that it would be a good choice for the Gee Bee, but is new on market and not much written about it yet.
So who makes best 2 cycle gassers now days?
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:29 AM
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The best in my opinion are the Dessert Aircraft. I only own one however. I am a budget flyer. I can't afford to invest in a DA for every plane I own. I have fantastic luck with the DLE line. I have 6 of them and the only issue I have of any sort was with the DLE30. When new it was a pain to get it to draw fuel. I did some work on the reed block which helped and now that it is broken in it's fine. I mentioned earlier how much I like the DLE35RE. It is in my opinion a much better engine than the 30cc. Smoother, quieter, broader power band and a better muffler. You might also look at the Valley View web site. They have a line of low cost gassers and they are one of the best in customer service. There are several sizes of twin 2 stroke gas engines that would be nice in your scale project.

David
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:09 AM
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Daveopam, I like your idea of Evolution engine with front mounted carb. would be easier installation and more familiar operation I think. I will also check out Valley View, have seen references to VV engines, but did not know what that was since I have not been paying attention for so long. DA is probably more than I want to spend at this time. Maybe if I get into competition I might want one.
Have you used an Evolution engine? are they reliable?
Thanks for the Info
Craig
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:13 AM
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Have not personally used one. A flying buddy has two of them. He has had no issues. I don't know if it's a plus or minus for you but they sound just like a glow of the same size. Maybe it's the "glow" type muffler but most can't tell they are gas until they see the plug. I would not be afraid to buy one for myself. Matter of fact I may just do that. I have a few glow planes I would like to fly again. I can't see myself buying any more nitro and getting my field box going again.

David
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:23 AM
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Hey Guys,
I found a thread on sky bolts, Many others are flying their SBs with saito 1.20's. I would have thought that it would be to big, since GP doesnt recommend anything over a .91.
But then when have I ever been afraid of overpowering a plane? answer: never. LOL. It seems the SB has a problem with being tail heavy and others have had to add many ounces of lead to nose to get it to balance when useing the smaller lighter engines. When useing the saito and moveing batteries forward, no lead necessary.
I know I said I wanted to stop useing glow, but I have a saito 1.20 sitting on shelf NIB. Would save a lot of money to use engine I have in stock rather than buy a new gasser. Maybe later I can convert to gas.
Also I can save money to get a gas engine to fly the Gee Bee sooner. Do not have anything available to put into Gee Bee. I have to gas engines, FPE 2.4 in a GP super stearman, and a FPE 3.2 in a GP Pitts special.
I do not want to take them out and move either one to the Gee Bee.
Craig

Last edited by KCCraig; 02-08-2019 at 04:24 AM. Reason: correct name of plane
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:09 AM
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I think you will be happy with the performance of the 1.20 in the SB. It's a good combo IMHO. Prop clearance may be the only issue. Keep in mind however the savings in fuel cost is substantial with gas. The 20cc gas will burn half as much at $2.50 a gallon as the 1.20 at $15 a gallon. It's something to think about if you fly a lot.

David
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:47 PM
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I bought two Saito FG11 engines last year, and they have been problematic. The non Walbro pumps are very sensitive to fuel tank position, and are very touchy when it comes to tuning. The piston ring on one got stuck as well. And even the bigger motors do not use bearings on the conn-rods. They sound good, but are not worth the trouble. So my vote is for a two stroke, but as to which, I'm going to suggest something different for your consideration. Have a look at the Zenoah motors. They're available with electronic ignition from Toni Clark in Germany (shipping and pricing is excellent). I base my recommendation on the following: 1) the Zenoah's use a three bearing crank as opposed to two. Much stiffer than the common cantilever arrangement and leads to much lower vibration levels than most comparable sized two strokes, 2) the design uses port induction, which obviates the need for a reed box, 3) the ignition is customized for the Zenoah bore/stroke and compression arrangement. It has higher current draw, but the spark intensity is higher and the smoothness is unmatched due to the timing map. A well tuned G20 will not burble mid-flight which is very difficult if not impossible to avoid in other motors including my OS GT22. So if you're reentering the hobby and want a solid engine which will run without fuss, consider the Zenoahs.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:36 PM
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Good call on the Zenoah. They have always been good solid reliable power plants.

David
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:20 AM
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Nostramo,
thanks for the suggestion. I have not looked at Zenoah yet. I will go find their website and check them out.
Craig
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:46 AM
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Craig + 1 on the Zenoah 20 it's a great engine when paired with an Rcexl Electronic ignition (uses much less current than the original Zenoah ign. ).
The DLE 20 is also a good choice . It's more power than the the Zen 20 but not quite as user friendly.
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:47 PM
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The G20 in my Top Flite P47 turns a Xoar 16-8 at 8500-8600 rpm and idles steady at 1700rpm. My OS GT22 in my T34 turns the same prop at around 8200 and idles around 2200. I use 35:1 blend of Silkolene 2T ester based synthetic with avgas. I like the Zenoah more. A lot of folks at my field use the dle20. They do cause a lot of airframe vibration (internal design and balance). The g20 is now 7 years old, and the os is about 4 yrs in service.
Best site for Zenoah product line and accessories: https://toni-clark-shop.com
Gerhard is a great guy to work with. Their online prices include VAT, so divide by 1.19 for prices to US.
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