Goldwing-RCU

Is the Fuji 64 with Electronic Ingnition any good? Any heads up on it?

Thanks,

Sheldon

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The Fuji's are not vertical performance demons but they are a good sport engine.

Enjoy,

Jim

Goldwing-RCU

Does anyone use Fuji?

I Read an article in MAN (June 2004) on the Fuji BT-64A and it looked good there. The Inside look also showed pretty good design and nice crank. I think it comes with Electronic Ignition now so a plus.

So, am I crazy?

twostroker

My Feedback: (37)

What do you want to put it on...that is the question. It may be the perfect engine for what you have in mind. Let us know what airframe you are thinking of.

Goldwing-RCU

It's going in a Carden Aircraft 30% CAP232

Seems like the DA-50 is a good choice but the LHS sells Fuji and that's what got me going in that direction. The DA is expensive and by the time you put it with a nice muffler it's a bit more then I have at the moment. So now you know.

Please, not alot of Fuji posts to get info on.

twostroker

My Feedback: (37)

Speaking from experience the Fugi on that plane is a big negative. The Fugi is a good Warbird engine...small prop..lots of rpm. You need an engine that will really grunt hard and swing a big stick for that plane. I would recommend a 3W75 or a ZDZ80. Both can be had used for a good price with a muffler to boot, and sometimes a prop too.

I may be a bit heavy on the cc's for this one, but then again Cardens are usually a bit heavier that most for thier size. I just covered a 31% Columbo Extra and most recommend a ZDZ80 for that plane. I am sure it weighs less than the Carden.

didiwatt

My Feedback: (38)

Sheldon:
Unless your CAP comes out at 16lbs or less, you would be disappinted in the DA-50 let alone the Fuji!!!! 18lbs with the DA-50 and tuned pipe is still marginal. Try to determine the finished weight on your model and due the math. A 30% plane usually comes out in the 20lb plus range and more realistically in the 25lb range. This weight deserves a 75 to 100cc engine. You have a lot of time and money in your plane, save a little longer and you won't be disappointed. Just my 2 cents worth
Paul Eagon

blikseme300

My Feedback: (118)

It will be a real shame to fit a Fuji on a Carden. You will be disappointed. Almost all CAP's are beasts if the wing loading is not kept low. Saving some $'s on an engine, which could cost you a high $ airframe, does not make any sense. I would really recommend you consider getting a 60-80cc ZDZ. The high power and low weight will please you when flying.

Safe Flying!

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

I have a Fuji 64 and a G-62, both on CH Synchrospark ign. They weigh about the same - 5lbs with wrap-around Pitts muffler. They both turn the same Pro Zinger 22x10 at 7000+rpm. I have the G-62 in a 30% Laser 200 and the Fuji 64 is still looking for a home (maybe my Christen Eagle, or the new WM 28% Extra). Neither one is anywhere close to broken in. Still, the G62 takes the 18lbs Laser straight up forever. The Fuji 64 would no doubt do the same.

I don't know anything about the Carden CAP, so can't say what you might expect. In general, CAPs and Extras are larger than Giles and Lasers of the same scale, so a 30% CAP is likely a bit larger than my 30% Laser.

The new Fuji electronic ign versions are still no feather weight, but they are no boat anchor either. Whether it'll work well for you depends on your expectations. I am not into the extreme 3D stuff and don't need the sexy super lightweight and EXPENSIVE engines. Your mileage may vary.

Goldwing-RCU

I'm not sure we are talking about the same engine. The Fuji BT-64A that MAN tested was producing 28 to 30 pounds of thrust depending on prop, muffler, etc. (the new Electonic Ignition model should be lighter and do better) The set up they said was the best overall for sound and power was the APC 24x10 at 6330 RPM which produced 28.5# of thrust. Now that does not sound too bad. Maybe I'm all wet (that is why I posted to learn) but those specs are not that bad.

It should be able to pull an 18 to 20 pound bird around the sky without too much problem. Maybe?????

hilleyja

My Feedback: (3)

Properly propped, with a Bolley 20x10 (7700rpm), my Fuji BT-50SA easily moves my 18.5 lb GP Christen Eagle around the sky. I haven't tried hovering and it may not even do it, but that is not why I bought the Eagle -- it is not designed as a 3D airplane.

BTW, I tried 2 other props on this engine:

Top Flight 20x10 -- barely got 6200rpm (engine new, still running 25:1 oil)

Mejzlik 20x10 -- just about 7000rpm (engine still new, just started to use 40:1 oil)

Bolley 20x10 -- strong 7700rpm (engine still has less than 2 gallons run time on it.)

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

Sheldon, I don't know which engine(s) these other guys are referring to, but I have both the Fuji BT-64A converted to CH ign, and a still NIB Fuji 64EI I picked up when Tower had a big rebate on Fujis last November. The two ign system are comparable, but I prefer the CH mostly because the timing is adjustable and I can get it with a metal-shielded spark plug cap. Power-wise, there shouldn't be enough different to argue over.

As I said, from my experience the Fuji 64 is comparable to the Zenoah G62. I'm sure Fuji originally positioned their 50, 64 and 86 to go head-to-head against the Zenoah 45, 62 and 80. Too bad they missed the boat on the evolving trend of the RC gasser marketplace. Zenoah had been the benchmark of gassers for decades, and in some sense they still are. However, the market is definitely shifting toward electronic ignition lightweight gassers, spurred on by the need to power the ever more popular and growing ever larger giant scale scale aerobats and 3D planes. So Hobbico/GP wisely responded by introducing Electronic Ignition versions of their existing Fuji line. They just introduced a new BT-43EI that looks to be exactly aimed, from the getgo, at the scale aerobatic crowd.

I don't like to speak in absolutes, and I don't like dismissing an engine outright, without a thorough understanding of the application. My observation about this forum is that most think anything less than a DA50 is a boat anchor and as such a disgrace even to be mentioned. Perhaps that is why Fujis don't get mentioned here much. For my style of sport flying, the Fuji 64EI would be plenty for any 18-20lbs scale aerobat. Perhaps you can try posting your question in the recently created "Sport Flying" forum, where folks are more likely to offer not-so-extreme opinions:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Spor...mid_373/tt.htm

Good luck.

didiwatt

My Feedback: (38)

JEEEEZZZZZ!!! Volfy, I think your response is a little out of line. I re-read all the posts and I think the responders where passing along good information gleaned from years of experience. And I think Sheldon posted this thread just to get opinions from others to help him with his quest. In no way do I see any derogatory opinions. Perhaps you should stay in the "Sport Flying" section!

Sheldon:
Take a look at the RC Showcase website. Although I am not a ZDZ fan, they have a chart that shows the thrust each engine puts out. Listed to the side are different weights of airplanes and what the kind of flying might be expected of the thrust versus weight matchups.

In your last post, you indicated your plane will be in the 18 to 20lb range. Is that correct? Seems a little shy for a 30% CAP. However, if it does come out at say 20lbs, and the engine puts out 28lbs as you indicated, then you have a little less than a 1 1/2 power to weight ratio. With that kind of ratio, you can expect good sport flying but shy on vertical manuvers.

What kind of flying expectations do you have on your CAP? That is the question which superceeds model or make of engine.

I hope this information helps you in your engine search.
Paul

Goldwing-RCU

Paul,

What should or would a comfortable power to weight ratio be? I'm not sure what type of flying I would be doing and that seems to be the point of the problem. The DA50 has the best power to weight ratio going for it but I believe it would be under powered to do the unlimited 3D stuff (Which I currently do not do - maybe later???) So that made me look to a bit larger engine and thats when things go hairy. DA needs something between the 50 & 100! ZDZ60 May be the next one up (36# thrust I think)

As far as the weight, 18 to 20# That is a calculated on paper. With the twin it ran about 20#'s so with a smaller engine and lighter batteries, etc it should be less. I'll know soon.

Later

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

3W-75i or a ZDZ-80 are the only engines you'de want in that plane and you want a power to weight approaching 2:1 if you want strong uplines and the ability to do any 3D. It would be horribly underpowered with the Fuji and significantly underpowered with the DA50. The DA-50 flies best at 16-18 pounds max. I would debate upline performance on 18 pounds and shoot for 16+ on any 50cc plane I build. The Cap is 18-21 pounds, with most coming in right at 20. They fly extremely well on that weight but you MUST have enough power. It is a much bigger plane than say the WH 28% or even the CA31% that I am flying (I have a 3W-75i on the CA at just under 20 pounds) .

I would use the 3W75 .. you will want the weight up front and that engine is a monster on torque. It will bring out the best in that Cap.

DP

didiwatt

My Feedback: (38)

Sheldon:
Desertpig's post is very good advise.

I like a little more than 2 to 1 for 3-D close to the ground. I also like flying at 1/2 throttle and having lots of excess power for verticle manuvers, but that is just me. You are righ about DA. I have been waiting for a 75 for a year and a half. Finally gave up and bought a 3W-75. Have not run it yet so the jury for me is still out.

Holding out for anything in the 75cc range will be worth the wait. LOL

Paul

Goldwing-RCU

Thanks for your help. I weighed the plane and the complete plane less servos, RX, switches, batteries, tank, fuel line, engine was 11# 4oz.

I'll do some adding and see where my toatl weight is. I'll use the 2 to 1 ratio.

Who sells 3W???

Thanks,

Sheldon

pipedoctor

My Feedback: (7)

how about a fuji bt86 twin on a 26# lanier 33% extra 300???????????

didiwatt

My Feedback: (38)

Catus Aviation - Aircraft International - Chief Aircraft and probably more. Your choice will be side carb or rear carb. Rear carb puts out a little more power but the carb passes through the firewall into the motor box, requiring a little extra planning for the throttle and choke set-up as well as getting to the needles for adjustment. 3W makes a mounting plate for not much money that helps when installing the rear carb model. The 3W is about a pound heavier than the ZDZ 80 which influences some people to go that route. ZDZ only makes the rear carb version. Good hunting.
Paul

Goldwing-RCU

Thanks, found them. Chief goes from the 42 to the 106 and has nothing listed in between! I found them thanks for the sources. it took me a minute to figure out the 3W-75i and the 75ius, etc. (Carb mount! AH) I see what you mean about the pound but that pound adds almost a 100.00 bucks! (Also adds 1 hp) Seems my project, like most, all are heading in the wrong direction! More costly!

twostroker

My Feedback: (37)

Well,

It's like I tell my kids all the time, "Do it right or do it twice".

You have seen both sides of the story here at this thread and have some good information at hand, but the choice is still yours to make.

I agree with all here who promote the 2 to 1 ratio. Even if you only ever fly scale aerobatics like IMAC you will need the power. If you don't believe it just try doing a snap roll on an up-line and watch the plane stop in it's tracks. So those who think over powered planes are just for 3D try flying the advanced sequence from IMAC, you will see the power is required.

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

Good for a boat anchor,,,,, go ahead and go for the higher performance, ZDZ or etc,,

Goldwing-RCU

I think your right, one thing I dont like is trying to figure Thrust. For Example neither the DA-50 or the ZDZ50NG list thrust measurments. Imposible to calculate unless you know some basic info like RPM & prop. I notice the other ZDZ list theirs! Some dont list HP. Very difficult to figure. No wonder everyone slams the biggest one in, they can't calulate the correct one! you know what they say, better too big then too small.... or you can always use less throttle!

Later!

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

A DA50 will put out between 27 and 31 pounds of thrust depending on altitude and prop. Not sure of the 3W-50/60.
The 3W-75 puts out just over 40 pounds on a 26x10 prop, the ZDZ a tad more. The 75cc and 80cc engines fly a 20# plane with authority.

Of course the thrust measurements are "fish scale" and not scientific, so don't take them as 100% accurate, but it gives you a ballpark figure to look at. I'd say they are within 10% of actual.

Personally, I think the 3W-75i is a great engine. For a big single, it is easy to start, smoothe and has a great idle. Transition and mid-range is good (but not as good as a DA-100) and top end is truly outstanding. I have run both the ZDZ and 3W, I like the 3W better, but that is me. They are both excellent engines. I doubt you will find a ZDZ80 anywhere right now.. they are on allocation. 3W is in stock. Go for the i version, putting the carb behind the firewall is the way to go.. much better carb metering. You will need the weight of the 3W as well. Cardens need ballast up front. If you go with the ZDZ you will either have to jam everything forward or add weight anyway. There is no such thing as a nose heavy Carden!

Bottom line - a 16 pound plane with a DA50 and a 20 pound plane with a 3W-75i are unlimited on vertical, even after snaps.
DP