DA 100 IGN FAILED
03-05-2006, 09:15 AM
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DA 100 IGN FAILED
2nd flight yesterday on my 2.6 Comp ARF, ENGINE QUIT DOWN WIND!!!! @40 FEET....... so in I go straight down wind and landed with out incident.... WHEW!!!!!!
Had plenty of gas 3/4 full.
IGN batt was @7.2 volts under a 1 amp load, verified by my 8 ball load meter.
AFTER a long walk and a few prayers, that were answered.
I looked around inside the plane, nothing out of place, all connections secure....
Tried to restart, several times... No Fire.....
I suspect the IGN Module.
Is there any sure fire way to check this without removing the module and sending it back to DA?
any help appreceated
Spectre1
Had plenty of gas 3/4 full.
IGN batt was @7.2 volts under a 1 amp load, verified by my 8 ball load meter.
AFTER a long walk and a few prayers, that were answered.
I looked around inside the plane, nothing out of place, all connections secure....
Tried to restart, several times... No Fire.....
I suspect the IGN Module.
Is there any sure fire way to check this without removing the module and sending it back to DA?
any help appreceated
Spectre1
03-05-2006, 09:35 AM
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RE: DA 100 IGN FAILED
You can remove both spark plugs. connect them to the spark plug wires. in a dark room, spin the prop quickly (like you are going to start it). Both spark plugs should fire. The DA ignition (and the 3W) use a design for the triggering mechanism that requires the magnet to pass the sensor at a pretty quick pace. Some ignitions you can just turn over very slowly. I was once confused by this. you do not have to hold the plugs against the case of the motor (like a lawn mower) because the electrical circuit passes thru the outer sheath of the plug wires.
If the plugs don't fire, then it is the ignition system (module, battery, switch, plug caps). Your test of the battery would indicate the battery is fine.
Also, if the plugs DO fire, it does not mean that everything is OK. They may fire once, but not be able to fire repeatedly in the real-world environment of a running engine. Last week, my DA ignition failed (I am pretty sure), but it passed this simple "fire once" test. I have a backup ignition that can be used for diagnostic purposes. When I put the old backup ignition system back on, the engine runs fine. Unfortunately, a second ignition system costs almost $200 so it is a lot on money tied up in inventory "just in case". My failure was on just one side. engine runs on one cylinder. Swapping the wires moves the problem from one side to the other.
I have had three ignition failures in 5 years. One was a cap failure on a 3W. Second was intermittent failure after 15 minutes of run time (3W) . Third was dropping one cylinder (started intermittently but now is all the time) (DA).
A search here for the word "ignition" will show you that there are a lot of failures will all the brands of ignitions. Fortunately DA warranties theirs for 2 years.
If the plugs don't fire, then it is the ignition system (module, battery, switch, plug caps). Your test of the battery would indicate the battery is fine.
Also, if the plugs DO fire, it does not mean that everything is OK. They may fire once, but not be able to fire repeatedly in the real-world environment of a running engine. Last week, my DA ignition failed (I am pretty sure), but it passed this simple "fire once" test. I have a backup ignition that can be used for diagnostic purposes. When I put the old backup ignition system back on, the engine runs fine. Unfortunately, a second ignition system costs almost $200 so it is a lot on money tied up in inventory "just in case". My failure was on just one side. engine runs on one cylinder. Swapping the wires moves the problem from one side to the other.
I have had three ignition failures in 5 years. One was a cap failure on a 3W. Second was intermittent failure after 15 minutes of run time (3W) . Third was dropping one cylinder (started intermittently but now is all the time) (DA).
A search here for the word "ignition" will show you that there are a lot of failures will all the brands of ignitions. Fortunately DA warranties theirs for 2 years.
03-05-2006, 10:06 AM
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RE: DA 100 IGN FAILED
OK, I just checked the IGN Batt..... again to reverify voltages... Its a 2200 (7.2V) Fromeco Lithium Ion Relion
Ive got
7.6 No Load
6.4 1 amp load
5.8 1.5 amp load
Shaking my head here How the heck did a freshly charged batt deplete to 6.4 and 5.8 after 1 flight.......
I thought that Lion chemistry had no memory and that a fresh charged battery usually lasts me 8-10 flights.....
This is the second season on my batt packs..... I charged right before I left for the field but took it for granted that they were all fully charged....Maybe its time to replace them....
Ive got them cooking right now and will go out to the shop and do the flip prop spark check DM.
I cant beleive they dropped that fast after 1 flight........... Fromeco recomends charge when vdc reaches 6.5 6.9. heavy sigh
Ive got
7.6 No Load
6.4 1 amp load
5.8 1.5 amp load
Shaking my head here How the heck did a freshly charged batt deplete to 6.4 and 5.8 after 1 flight.......
I thought that Lion chemistry had no memory and that a fresh charged battery usually lasts me 8-10 flights.....
This is the second season on my batt packs..... I charged right before I left for the field but took it for granted that they were all fully charged....Maybe its time to replace them....
Ive got them cooking right now and will go out to the shop and do the flip prop spark check DM.
I cant beleive they dropped that fast after 1 flight........... Fromeco recomends charge when vdc reaches 6.5 6.9. heavy sigh
03-05-2006, 06:03 PM
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RE: DA 100 IGN FAILED
Lithium have a shelf life that starts the day they were made, mine have started to drop out after 2-3yrs.
I checked with Fromeco and that is the way it is, one of the downsides of them.
I checked with Fromeco and that is the way it is, one of the downsides of them.
03-05-2006, 06:56 PM
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RE: DA 100 IGN FAILED
Hello Spectre1,
Just a thought here, but if you are using the red and black ign plug from the module when it is new, you may want to check to see that it did not break at the connector pin that are crimped on to the wire. I have had these wires break but only after I had run the engine for some time. Just something worth checking.
Just a thought here, but if you are using the red and black ign plug from the module when it is new, you may want to check to see that it did not break at the connector pin that are crimped on to the wire. I have had these wires break but only after I had run the engine for some time. Just something worth checking.
03-07-2006, 01:00 AM
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RE: DA 100 IGN FAILED
Hi there rc4flying, Yes, I did check and rechecked all wiring from IGN to Batt, to Regulator then to Charge Sw itself. all appears to be fine. I took great pains in Isolating all leads from the effects of vibration. They all appear to be intact.
I talked with Fromeco today and explained that I charged my batterys before I went flying.. and then checked voltages after I got home. He explained that the Li Ions shelf life does start from the day of Manufacture. So my 1 year and 5 month old Batterys were in fact on there way out. As the Ign and one main pack had approx 20% less capacity from when they were new.
They were more than Happy to send me a complete set of 4400's and a new Ign Batt for a modest 50% off.
I think that I got great customer service and a good deal on a fresh set of Batterys.
Lesson Learned.
1, Dont take for granted that your charger completely charged your batterys after just one cycle. RECHECK with Voltmeter/Loadmeter.
2, Check voltages after each flight... I never used to do this..... but I damn sure will now.
3, 7.0 volts on a 1 amp load is definelty time to recharge.
4, Thank God for listening to your prayers when you deadstick your high dollar plane down wind and come out smelling like a rose.
I talked with Fromeco today and explained that I charged my batterys before I went flying.. and then checked voltages after I got home. He explained that the Li Ions shelf life does start from the day of Manufacture. So my 1 year and 5 month old Batterys were in fact on there way out. As the Ign and one main pack had approx 20% less capacity from when they were new.
They were more than Happy to send me a complete set of 4400's and a new Ign Batt for a modest 50% off.
I think that I got great customer service and a good deal on a fresh set of Batterys.
Lesson Learned.
1, Dont take for granted that your charger completely charged your batterys after just one cycle. RECHECK with Voltmeter/Loadmeter.
2, Check voltages after each flight... I never used to do this..... but I damn sure will now.
3, 7.0 volts on a 1 amp load is definelty time to recharge.
4, Thank God for listening to your prayers when you deadstick your high dollar plane down wind and come out smelling like a rose.
ORIGINAL: rc4flying
Hello Spectre1,
Just a thought here, but if you are using the red and black ign plug from the module when it is new, you may want to check to see that it did not break at the connector pin that are crimped on to the wire. I have had these wires break but only after I had run the engine for some time. Just something worth checking.
Hello Spectre1,
Just a thought here, but if you are using the red and black ign plug from the module when it is new, you may want to check to see that it did not break at the connector pin that are crimped on to the wire. I have had these wires break but only after I had run the engine for some time. Just something worth checking.
03-07-2006, 05:08 PM
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RE: DA 100 IGN FAILED
Just goes to show that not all ignitions are made equal....no lifetime warranty ???
Karol
Karol
Yes... always check all batts under 1 amp load before every flight!!! I never take anything for granted with those thing's. Yours were so dead that you took them under 3.0V/cell when checking with 1.5A... not good! If I were you I'd be really careful before I tried to charge them again (for whatever unknown reason)... granted they're not as bad as LiPos, but still.
03-20-2006, 10:58 AM
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RE: DA 100 IGN FAILED
OK.... I never said the Ing Battey was the problem... I only quoted my voltage readings after It deadsticked. The Ign should have been working at 6.4 volts.
AFTER I recharged the Ign Batt to 7.2 volts, I removed the plugs and flip checked.... NO Spark......
So I removed my fuel tank and started inspecting the wiring...... indepth..... Apparently after 30+ flights the IGN MODULE Connector....
YES the FACTORY RED AND BLACK appeared to be intact at first glance..... I gently removed the plug from its zip tied position and BEHOLD>>>>> one of the wires was broken clean off on the side leading to my regulator... TA DA......culprit identified.
This could have definetly caused catastrophic failure.
Im about to call DA and see of they will replace the plug.
It appears that when they crimped the wire to the pin inside the plug it was done as to break some of the strands.
RC4FLYING.
Thanks you for your VALUABLE input. I sure hope DA has this issue Identified already and is Inspecting these before shipment.
Greg
AFTER I recharged the Ign Batt to 7.2 volts, I removed the plugs and flip checked.... NO Spark......
So I removed my fuel tank and started inspecting the wiring...... indepth..... Apparently after 30+ flights the IGN MODULE Connector....
YES the FACTORY RED AND BLACK appeared to be intact at first glance..... I gently removed the plug from its zip tied position and BEHOLD>>>>> one of the wires was broken clean off on the side leading to my regulator... TA DA......culprit identified.
This could have definetly caused catastrophic failure.
Im about to call DA and see of they will replace the plug.
It appears that when they crimped the wire to the pin inside the plug it was done as to break some of the strands.
RC4FLYING.
Thanks you for your VALUABLE input. I sure hope DA has this issue Identified already and is Inspecting these before shipment.
Greg
ORIGINAL: rc4flying
Hello Spectre1,
Just a thought here, but if you are using the red and black ign plug from the module when it is new, you may want to check to see that it did not break at the connector pin that are crimped on to the wire. I have had these wires break but only after I had run the engine for some time. Just something worth checking.
Hello Spectre1,
Just a thought here, but if you are using the red and black ign plug from the module when it is new, you may want to check to see that it did not break at the connector pin that are crimped on to the wire. I have had these wires break but only after I had run the engine for some time. Just something worth checking.
