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Thread: GAS Saito


  1. #1276

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    RE: GAS Saito

    That is one of the things I have seen posted by others, the exhaust valve stick sometimes and have to be lubed.

    I have seen people post after a flying day they remove the cover and put a few drops of oil on the exhaust valve but do not know if they are running them right side up or inverted.

    Milton
    Contact Milton@rcextremepower.net
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  2. #1277

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    RE: GAS Saito

    Saito FG36 ignition question:


    I want to I cut the connectors off the hall sensor and ignition. I would like to replace them with servo connectors. Will the stock Saito FG36 ignition work with a RCEXL Mini Tachometer. I have cut the connectors off my CH ignition before and it worked with RCEXL a Tachometer. I am 99% sure it will work I just want some input.

    Thank you
    GFB

  3. #1278
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: GAS Saito

    The big round Saito ignition timing sensor or non of its wies will not work with anything RCEXL or CH. They work on a different principle
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  4. #1279

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    RE: GAS Saito

    My ch ignition works with a RCEXL tachometer. I thought the FG36 ignition would work if I changed the connectors.

  5. #1280

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    RE: GAS Saito

    I have a BME 50cc classic engine that uses a CH ignition. I know it works it is in my plane. I just thought some one tried it by now.

  6. #1281
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    RE: GAS Saito

    Did all the fg36's have a brass insert for the valve seats or did that get changed along the way? don't know how others do it but i pull the rocker covers and dribble some atf fluid down there just in case they really do run dry,any thoughts?
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  7. #1282
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: GAS Saito

    To check if you have brass valve seats, you do not need to remove the cylinder.

    The ones with bronze seats, the brassy metal goes all up through the valve pocket.

    You can remove the intake or exhaust and see the brass look?
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  8. #1283
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    RE: GAS Saito

    No, it will not work. I have the FG-36 and the FG-57.

    The RCExl tach works fine on the FG-57. It will not work on the FG-36.

    There is only 2 wires on the FG-36.

  9. #1284
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    RE: GAS Saito

    I have a question regarding SAITO FG-36.

    I run my new FG36 for 1.5+1.5=3hours.
    Mostly idling, but also short bursts of high RPM at the second 1.5 hours.
    In total ~36cc tank of 87gas + Evolution oil recommended for this engine=>1:17.
    Prop: oar: 18x8.
    At the end of te second 1.5 hour I tuned niddles and look like I got stable low RPM as 1830 and my high RPM reached 7500.

    Q#1: I expected high RPM to be at 8500 point, but I wasn't able to get it with 18x8 prop and 87-gas.
    What I can explore here in order to get higher RPM?

    Q#2: After ~2 hours of braking in I can hear some strange noise (while engine is off) when manually rotating prop back and forward quickly.
    Sound like a lost metal ball running inside crankcase.
    The engine still opperate OK, but I am wondering about that sound.
    You can only hear this sound when moving prop manually back and forward by ~45 - ~90 degree.

    Anybody experiencing such sound on fg36 ?

    Thank you for your input.

    It is my first experience with 4 stroke engine.

    I also have 2 stroke OS FG-33, wich is trouble free in every way!

    Andrei K.

  10. #1285
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: GAS Saito

    The "Click" you hear in a FG-36 is the cam shaft gear mesh slack changing position from being pushed by the crankshaft to pushing the crankshaft because of the valve springs.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  11. #1286

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    RE: GAS Saito

    Wyne....

    I have a FG36.... never run....
    Would you run it to see if any issues, or just replace the ignition, and throw a Zema 4stroke carb on it, and call it done...and ready to hual mail??
    If you can\'\'\'\'t dazzle em with brilliance,baffle em with BS

  12. #1287
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: GAS Saito

    Try it as it came from the factory at first. You may find it satisfactory?

    The four stroke carbs are a little hard to come by. The supply of Walbro carbs that were used on the Ryobi four strokes has dried up. There's a Zama model out here but ZI don't remember the number right now.

    The Walbro that comes on the FG-36 would be OK if you could get parts for it.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  13. #1288
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    RE: GAS Saito

    I see that Horizon has come out with a FG30B. From what I can see it has a different ignition. It appears to be a RCEXL. Does anyone know if the new Satio ignition is a direct replacement for the old one. I ask because I have the old FG30 and it has the same problem many do. It miss fires randomly.
    Larry
    Saito Club #692
    AMA#128736

  14. #1289
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: GAS Saito

    The timing is different between the two ignition systems. The original Saito ignition, with the big round pick-up sensor, was timed at Top Dead Center.

    The new ignition is timed at 28 degrees before top dead center.

    The Prototypes I saw had the new ignition mounted in the same place on the center casting seam as the old style engines but they had re-drilled the front hub for the locating pin to make the timing at 28 degrees.

    The guy that owns CH ignitions has some brackets that will move the sensor over to the 28 degree point so you do not have to drill and tap a new hole in the hub. I used one of these on my FG-36 to change the ignition over.

    Mad Max at RC Extreme flight has a long sensor bracket for his RCEXL ignitions to move the timing over to 28 degrees.

    It is cheaper to buy a new ignition from other than Saito.

    CM-6 spark plugs are available at the Auto parts. I bought mine at both Advance and O Reiley's.

    This is the proto type engine I was holding and looking at. Notice where they re-drilled the hub to make the timing for the RCEXL type ignition sensor be timed at 28 degrees?


    Notice in this next pictue at the bottom right corner of the Saito ignition box where it says "Made by RCEXL"


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    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  15. #1290
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    RE: GAS Saito

    Great thanks for the info. One more question. In your openion which is better CH or RCEXL ignitions? or are they the same?
    Larry
    Saito Club #692
    AMA#128736

  16. #1291
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: GAS Saito

    The CH and RCEXL are a lot alike and will interchange on a engine. The sensors are actually the same type. The old original CH had a Deans connector on the sensor. The RCEXL has a RC radio connector on it.

    I think the CH is made better but either one will serve your purpose fine.

    The RCEXL is more or less a copy of the CH.

    The new Saito ignition is a RCEXL that is rebadged to say Saito but it is cheaper to just buy a RCEXL.

    There are Some CH ignitions out there that are actually RCEXL ignitions. You can tell by how they are made.

    It doesn't really matter.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  17. #1292
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    RE: GAS Saito

    ORIGINAL: akouzmit

    I have a question regarding SAITO FG-36.

    I run my new FG36 for 1.5+1.5=3hours.
    Mostly idling, but also short bursts of high RPM at the second 1.5 hours.
    In total ~36cc tank of 87gas + Evolution oil recommended for this engine=>1:17.
    Prop: oar: 18x8.
    At the end of te second 1.5 hour I tuned niddles and look like I got stable low RPM as 1830 and my high RPM reached 7500.

    Q#1: I expected high RPM to be at 8500 point, but I wasn't able to get it with 18x8 prop and 87-gas.
    What I can explore here in order to get higher RPM?

    Q#2: After ~2 hours of braking in I can hear some strange noise (while engine is off) when manually rotating prop back and forward quickly.
    Sound like a lost metal ball running inside crankcase.
    The engine still opperate OK, but I am wondering about that sound.
    You can only hear this sound when moving prop manually back and forward by ~45 - ~90 degree.

    Anybody experiencing such sound on fg36 ?

    Thank you for your input.

    It is my first experience with 4 stroke engine.

    I also have 2 stroke OS FG-33, wich is trouble free in every way!

    Andrei K.
    - 2nd post
    Hi,
    I am coming back with some new questions.
    By this time I completed braking in for my SAITO FG-36 and set it up on 80" span RV-8.
    I continue tuning engine on the ground with my plane strapped to the bench.
    I have some experience with tuning O.S. FG-33 engine carb. and in comparison with O.S. the carb. for SAITO bechaive a bit differently.
    My problems with SAITO carb tuning:
    1) At the mid of the throttle stick the engine is unstable and occasionally died;
    2) I am not able to reach 8500 RPM wit 91 octane gas and recommended Evolution oil (1:20); The highest RPM I am getting is close to 7000-7200 on the ground with 19x8 Xoar prop. or 7200-7400 with 18x8 Xoar prop.

    At the same time I see at list a few positive things:
    1) Extremely stable idle RPM !!! Engine can run at 1750-1800 RPM for hours w/o any intension to quit.
    I am not toutching low RPM niddle any more, but playing ONLY with high RPM niddle.
    2) Once I passed mid position of the throttle stick and went all way up to the highest RPM engine is running quite stable, but max RPM is close to 7000 instead of expected 8000-8500.

    I need to resolve 2 issues:
    1) Some how to tune carb in order to avoid mid stick engine hesitation.
    2) Increase high RPM on the ground from ~7000 to 8000+.

    Regarding the second issue I start thinking about changing ignition sensor position (advancing), but I am not sure if it is rigt thing to toutch manufacturing setup ... Please advice here.

    Regarding first issue I dont want to touch low RPM niddle as engine is running so lovely at low RPM, but at the same time tuning high RPM niddle is not helping with the 1st issue . . . and 2nd issue eather. . .

    Please, advice on SAITO FG-36 tuning.

    Thank you,
    Andrei K.


  18. #1293
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    RE: GAS Saito

    The FG-36 engine rpms listed in the brochure are rather optimistic.
    I doubt you will ever get rid of the stutter in a roll with the FG-36 as long as you use the original carb?
    Eventually you will want to ditch the original Saito ignition and change to a RCEXL or CH ignition.

    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  19. #1294

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    RE: GAS Saito

    Hello
    i have a saito fg 36 4 stroke
    wanted to know if anyone knows if the sensor for the cdi is a hall type sensor?
    i am referring to the bigger sensor.
    AMA # 982277
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  20. #1295
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: GAS Saito

    The big round sensor is inductive and not a Hall Effect Sensor
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  21. #1296

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    RE: GAS Saito

    Ok, thank you, that answers that question for me.  thank you so much.
    let me tell you my dilemma, maybe you can help me.
    I have a saito fg 36
    it is up on shelf.  i do not use it.
    but i had bought a second sensor.  don't ask me why (LOL)

    i just finished a 4 month process of putting together a 40% scale extra 330 s
    she had maiden flight 2 days ago.

    i am now interested in setting up telemetry for her.
    in particular, i have a DA 170 twin, with EI.

    i need a sensor to use on the prop hub area that will pick up the signal from the small magnet.  and the one from Spektrum (that i purchased) is inteneded to be installed on the rear aspect of the engine, to pick the crankshaft pin signal, it is a Hall effect sensor.

    i was thinking, if i could use the saito sensor, then it would make things easier, but i do not believe this will work.
    AMA # 982277
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  22. #1297
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: GAS Saito

    The existing magnet will work a Hall effect sensor.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  23. #1298

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    RE: GAS Saito

    thank you w8ye, i have connected it and it is picking up a signal. dont know how accurate it is, will let you know by this weekend.
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    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35 (Soon)
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25

  24. #1299
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    RE: GAS Saito

    ORIGINAL: w8ye

    Eventually you will want to ditch the original Saito ignition and change to a RCEXL or CH ignition.
    What characteristics make the RCEXL and CH ingnition systems better than the Saito unit. Is the Saito one simply unreliable and short-lived, or is its electronic advance-retard response badly specified? Or is there another reason, like the Saito ignition's spark goes poor or something?

    I've been messing with an ignition conversion of a Laser 240 V-twin glow engine with a couple of RCXELs one per cylinder, but the Laser gets horribly hot (that engine is reputed to run hotter than most similar-size glow engines when running glow but I didn't find out until after buying the engine) and I'm going to abandon the experiment. This leaves me with two RCXEL ignitions, and as I have two Saito FG-36's (the early ones, not the FG-36B), I could usefully employ the RCXELs on those engines if there was going to be a real benefit. I have the capability to make 28deg sensor mounts for the Saitos.

    I have to admit that after running very reliably and smoothly for the first couple or three hours of use, one of my Saitos has developed a misfire, which some Saito petrol users have referred to as a burp, and adjusting the carb won't eradicate it. I'm wondering if there might be an ignition fault.

    TIA for your opinion.

    Gordon

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    RE: GAS Saito

    Topic: SAITO FG-36; Carburator problem after 4 months storage.


    Hi,
    I am looking for advice with my SAITO FG-36 carburetor.
    Last year engine run well over 2 hours in total and everything was OK although initially I found that priming during the very first start was a bit of issue until I applied pressure into fuel tank just to let fuel go through the fuel line to the carb.

    After ~4 months of winter storage (last time I have run it out of fuel as recommended) I have found that I can't start engine with electric starter for over an hour . . .
    Check out ignition and spark plug is working fine.
    What I found is my electric starter is rotating FG-36 very easy and it is due to the missing priming . . .
    Engine is not getting fuel AT ALL even when I am applying good pressure in the fuel tank.
    I have added fuel directly to the carb air intake and then I can hear a few burbs.
    It is telling me the spark plug and ignition is still OK (fresh charged battery for ignition used)

    I disconnected fuel line from the fuel tank and tried to apply air pressure while rotating prop by hand (ignition is off).
    What I found is NO AIR is coming through carburetor.
    If air can’t go under good pressure then fuel will be also not able to go through the carb.

    Next I removed part of the carb, which has connection to the fuel line.
    I check out spring and membrane flexibility . . . everything looks OK.
    All channels also looks clean and tiny filter is also looks absolutely clean.
    I closed that part of the carb and opened another part of the carb where big size membrane is located with metal part at the center.
    If I push this membrane a bit down and applying air pressure through fuel line leading to the carb I can see that big membrane is pushed a bit by the air pressure I am applying through fuel line tube.
    Look to me the fuel channel from the fuel intake on the carb to the big membrane is clean.

    Now question is => where else in the carb the fuel channel may prevent air pressure to go through the carb.
    I have tried to play with high/low needls, but it didn't help me either.

    Very puzzled with this issue.

    Please, help if you know this subject.

    Andrew K.


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