flyboydale54

I often wonder what is on a person's mind when they state: "First off is everyone aware that this thread is over one year old"? It does not matter how old a thread is! I know that I often read posts that are several years old, and I can not read every forum and every post as soon as they come out, and I certainly do not always have the immediate need to do so. For me, I was glad to be able to read it since I recently bought an older Taylorcraft with a 85 1/2" wingspan that they do not even make anymore. It is new, almost completed in the build, except for the windows and windshield installation. It came with a Genoah G38 in it with very little running. This is my first gasser and thankful that these threads are kept on the RC Universe Forum site. Since I do not have the resources to keep up with the jones, lol, I often buy older planes and engines for which I need to often do research to learn what others have learned years ago. However, the bearings felt very dry and rough, so I tore it down and inspected the internal parts. Luckily I did not run it and ordered new bearings, seals, and gaskets for it. It had sat for a few years and this certainly takes it toll on bearings. While waiting for the parts to arrive, I began searching for an electronic ignition replacement, not knowing if one was available or not when beginning the search. I quickly found a man that had been selling at shows and has a web site for the EXCEL Ignition Kits for the Genoah line as well as other engines. I was told by this person that does the repairs on engines that he is the owner of this family owned business. He is an engineer and does this business part time. He is very knowledgable as well as very experienced. He assured me that I would save over 15 oz. in weight by going to the conversion kit over the original magneto ignition. It came with a flywheel replacement that already had the magnet for the pickup installed into the new flywheel. He told me not to be intimidated that this kit was bolt-n-play. Far lighter than the original flywheel. He also advised me that I would notice a significant power increase because this electronic ignition unit has a built in ignition timing curve that give far more power output from the G38. In addition, he said the starting is substantially improved with the electronic ignition module. I found this ignition kit to be very reasonable in price and far less expensive than the original magneto ignition. He also carries the opto-isolator ignition switch unit and it happens to be far cheaper than others I have researched. He has sold a lot of these EXCEL ignition and EXCEL opto-isolator units and never has had one fail yet in the 5 years he has been in business. Being an engineer he thinks a little differently than some of us do, and he has taken the time to travel to the manufacturer and talked very lengthy with the owner. He stated this man that manufactures them only uses top quality components, unlike a lot of other manufacturers from this country, he said. Quality at a reasonable price, something that is hard to come by in today's world market. If nothing else, the weight savings alone spells far more performance in the RC Airplane. Mainly, I just was looking for reliability and performance gains as well as a weight saving when I decided the original magneto ignition system was way too heavy for my liking. If I had not of torn this engine down for inspection, I would not have realized just how much the original magneto ignition system weighed over the new electronic conversion kit. What I value the most on these forums are the feedback people give to help solve fellow modelers problems and issues. I want to take this moment to express how grateful I am for all the posts people unselfishly give of their time and effort in helping others. I noticed that there are those that have plenty of patience and will take the time to explain their viewpoint to us that are less fortunate and less knowledgable in the hobby, while there are others that obviously are short fused and demonstrate anger in their replies and posts. Even then, sometimes those less desirable poster's have something good to contribute. Therefore, based on my needs and I know there are others that need older posted articles to rely on for good solid information, I ask RC Universe to always keep these posts available to read, no matter how old they are on their site, for people like myself to read and learn from. Thank you. Check out his site and products, call him, and make your own decision if the products he sells are worth the investment or not. I know after I received it, which was very fast after I ordered it, I found his knowledge was well worth my time to call him and talk with him about my concerns and needs.

http://www.agaperacingandhobby.com/index.php

karolh

Very good post, and welcome to the world of gas engines were having to wipe gobs of goo off your model after a day at the field and dead sticks will be a thing of the past

geeter

My Feedback: (110)

yes the g-20-ei does use a very good bit of energy from a ign battery. i get two flights from a 1600 mah hydrimax 4.8 volt cell. the stock ign can draw 2 amps at 8000 rpm. other igns draw 350-400 mah. the engine won't start if the volts are below 5.2........so a 4.8 peaks at 5.8 approx. holds about 5.6....5.7. the first flight drops the pack to around 5.5 to around 5.4 so what you have left is another flight until you reach 5.3 volts..very close to 5.2 where she won't fire. very simple math. you need a 3000 mah pack to get 4-5 safe flights. thats why everyone goes to a aftermarket ign. it would be different if the ign would work down to around 4.7...4.8 volts,but it doesn't. i fly my electric and charge the nimh 1600 mah pack at 300 mah to get another flight or so. fast charging a nimh pack is not good for it otherwise i would be charging at 2 amp or more..........RON

bcchi

New C&H Ignition from Adrian will run to 18000 no problem. I think the new RCEXL Ign would do the same.
BCCHI

Hyprmtr

My Feedback: (56)

I have a Top Flite AT-6 I want to put a gas engine in. Would the G20 be a good motor for it? I do need extra nose wieght.

I raise the from thy dead once again!

kmeyers

I have been running my Zenoah 20ei for 10-12 years (I should keep records). Flew it yesterday in the H9 Ultra Stick. It has been there for the whole time and I fly this plane and engine combo each year from October to May. I now estimate 700 hours on this combo (I have been able to fly alot).

The engine I recommend, But I have no knowledge of scale detail and fitment in an AT6.
You will need to answer questions on cowl cutting and generation 20ei. Whether you would use a stock or aftermarket muffler.

1. This engine is not beam mount.
2. Stock box muffler, side mount.
3. Piston port, side mounted carb.

Many will probably steer you toward something like the DLE 20 rear exhaust. ( I own 2 DLE 20's both side exhaust) I have had no problems with my DLE 20's.

Me, I do love my Zenoah. It has been a joy to operate.

karolh

My G20 is just as old and powers a GP Big Stik 60. It has been absolutely trouble-free and very user friendly and I think it would be an excellent power choice for your model.

drummaker

Static thrust calculator says 16x7 apc 9150 rpm 65 degrees 15.86 pounds. Not to shabby I do not know why no one ever did the calculations

karolh

Using the tried and proven Pe Reivers prop thrust calculator chart an APC 16x7 at 9,150 rpm generates 14.7 lbs. of static thrust at sea level while my G20 spinning a Xoar 16x6 at max. 8,700 rpm gives 12.7 lbs. at 2,500' above sea level.

flygilmore

I had a sweet running G20......man, I wish I would've never sold that thing. I'd take the G20 over a DLE 20 ANY day when I could.

karolh

My G20 that Ralph did his magic on is a keeper. He just made a sweet running engine that much better.

coleboom

has anyone come out with a fix for the engine being short of power? I can attest to the 10 lbs of thrust I tried a lot of different and never got above 10.5 I have one of these and want to put it on a four start 120 but I really want more thrust

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

coleboom
you can send your engine to Toxic Al or B H Hanson for modifying or you can just buy a new cylinder and piston from them,
you may want to buy a different carb too.

http://www.bhhanson.com/

http://www.trmpower.com/html/contact_us.html

Jim

flyboydale54

Update regarding my modified G38 Zenoah. I never was able to fire up my G38 after replacing the bearings and upgrading with the electronic ignition kit. The reason is because the carburetor insulator block keeps cracking when I tighten it down. I got a free replacement, but the same thing happens when I tighten it down. Even if I do not tighten it down with a lot of force, the block cracks when I begin to tighten it down. Quite frankly, I got discouraged to put it mildly and just left it sitting in the corner. The original 2 carburetor insulator blocks were black and seemed very brittle. The last one was an updated part and is tan in color. Sucks to have this problem after dumping the money into a seemingly worthwhile upgrade. Anyone else have this problem or has a solution, I would appreciate your inputs. Thank you. I see some of you posted about DLE Engine dissatisfaction. I agree, if possible, stay away from DLE Engines. Why you might ask? Simple, they are not that ruggedly built. In fact, I have 2 DLE 55 Engines. They run, but they are cheaply made and engineered. I had one quit just as I was taxing out for take-off. I quickly discovered it had lost it's compression. I tore it down and it needed a new crank assembly due to an upper rod bearing beginning to break apart. That damaged the piston and ring. It took me over 2 months to get the parts from Tower Hobbies because they seemed to be all redesigned and on back order. I had to replace the crankshaft due to some play in the lower rod bearing and it had turned the upper end of the rod blue from heat of the needle bearing failure. I would have tried to use the crankshaft but after getting the new designed needle bearing, I discovered the bearing had excessive play in the connecting rod, so I decided to spring for a new designed crankshaft to avoid another failure. They do not sell separate connecting rods for the DLE55, so you have to buy it as an assembly. The upper bearing redesigned, the Piston redesigned, the Crankshaft redesigned, the Carburetor redesigned. With all that redesigning of so many DLE55 parts, it tells me the DLE55 had a lot of problems. I finally got all the parts except for the Piston Ring. That kept remaining on back order from China, so I contacted Frank Bowman for a ring, but I discovered he retired and no longer manufactures rings nor sells any parts anymore. A sad dead end on that one. He made good replacement rings resulting in higher engine output due to the increase in compression and far less ring end gap. His business and manufacturing equipment is for sale and I hope someone takes it over. After a lot of research, I found a man who manufactures rings for many engines including the DLE Engines. I ordered two of them to have a spare. He too uses far less ring gap, which results in a smoother running and higher performance output. He is located in the United Kingdom, which I had my doubts of ever getting my rings, but quickly received my 2 replacement rings. I found this person to quickly answer my questions in my emails to him. He advertises on e-Bay. Great person and appears to be nice rings. Time will tell, because I am going to put the DLE55 engine back together over this winter of 2017. One of my New Year Resolutions is to finish this project and get my Revolver 55 back in the air, which I liked very much how it flies. Lucky for me the engine quit just as I was taxing out and not after take-off which would have been a far less than successful event. I also have a DA-50 and that is far superior to the DLE, but cost more money, but well worth the extra investment, especially if you value your plane and are going to remain in the hobby. I bought the plane with the DA50 from a engineer friend that is Secretary of the Club. He gave me a good deal on it and I have not had any problems with it. It only had about 2 gallons of gas run through it. DLE is a short life engine in my experiences. Good ole China Junk. They do not design stuff to last. Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

spaceworm

Three things come to mind:

1. Either the carb or the engine mount surface for the carb is not flat. or have debris or imperfections. Place a straight scale across the surfaces in several direction. Check for gaps.. Resurface with emery cloth on a flat surface (glass) to flatten. Put layout dye or magic marker on the surfaces to see when they become flat. Just for S&G, check the insulator and gaskets also.
2. The screws used to attach the carb are bent. They could then touch against the insulator holes and cause stress.
3, Excessive torque is being applied to tighten the assembly down.

Have you tried another carb or other screws, just to isolate the problem? We used to call it Easter egging.

JMHT

Good luck.

Sincerely, Richard.

karolh

[QUOTE=flyboydale54;12292565]Update regarding my modified G38 Zenoah. I never was able to fire up my G38 after replacing the bearings and upgrading with the electronic ignition kit. The reason is because the carburetor insulator block keeps cracking when I tighten it down. I got a free replacement, but the same thing happens when I tighten it down. Even if I do not tighten it down with a lot of force, the block cracks when I begin to tighten it down. Quite frankly, I got discouraged to put it mildly and just left it sitting in the corner. The original 2 carburetor insulator blocks were black and seemed very brittle. The last one was an updated part and is tan in color. Sucks to have this problem after dumping the money into a seemingly worthwhile upgrade. Anyone else have this problem or has a solution, I would appreciate your inputs.


Ralph Cunningham ( Antique) was a source of virtually unbreakable insulator blocks for the Zen engines made from G10 epoxy board. You could give him a check to see if he still makes them. But as Richard suggested check both mating surfaces for trueness as the stock blocks should not be cracking from just normal tightening. Have used several in the past on various Zen engines and never had that happen.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Flyboy, with all those engine issues, perhaps you should consider electric power. I have quite a few engines and have never had that many problems with the whole lot of them.

flyboydale54

Truckracer: Thank you, but I do not care to convert to electric. I like to hear the noise of gas or nitro engines. I also enjoy having to wear a welding glove to start the gas engines and I like getting my knuckles wrapped occasionally if it kicks back, LOL. I have one electric, a Sailplane. Full throttle it climbs vertical, but that is OK as it gets me to altitude much quicker, LOL The only reason I have that one, my engineer friend deemed it necessary to have me bring the new in the box Alpine model over, that a flying friend dying of cancer wanted me to have, and he said he would put it together for me. He did not like the brush motor that came with it, so he gathered up the newer brush-less motor, a couple used Li-Po Batteries and a speed controller he had sitting in his spare parts drawer, along with a used charger he no longer wanted due to the limited uses for it. He uses more cells now than this charger is capable of charging. The constant having to charge batteries with my impatience is not to my liking, LOL. I quickly got used to the vertical climb out and do like to fly it once in awhile. I found I can stay up for as long as an hour by soaring until it gets back down to landing altitude and power it up for a quick vertical climb back to soaring altitude, LOL. Generally I get about 45 minutes flight on one charge. I am down to one battery though due to something going wrong with the charger and puffing the partially swelled battery that he said would probably have to be replaced by the end of the flying season My Hobbico Accu-cycle will charge it, but it takes way too long to charge it at the field. Guess I will have to invest in another 3-cell battery next year and buy his son's charger that is top of the line but only has one channel and he wants the same make but a dual channel. Those are nice chargers as his younger brother and father have the dual-channel chargers that fits all their needs and will keep him from having to keep using his father's charger, LOL. Thank you for the suggestion though. Personally, problems with an engine are meant to be solved and overcome, which I enjoy rebuilding an engine occasionally just to see how much longer it will last. If you would go to Tower Hobbies web site, and do a search for DLE-55 Parts, and scroll down the entire list, you will see the original parts will say "No Longer Available", and further down the pages you will find the redesigned part as it has a different part number. This I found out by combing over the part list multiple times until the light bulb lit up, LOL. So, there was enough problems with the DLE-55 Engine if one notices how many of the parts are "No Longer Available" and replacement parts with new part numbers are available. I bought it used from my engineer friends friend that is a Lear Jet Mechanic when he came up with it all setup in a Great Planes Revolver 55 and I just had to have it. Knowing what I know now, I would steer clear of the DLE-55 Engine. The DLE-55 is no longer being produced except in rear exhaust version and has been replaced by the DLE-61 probably for that reason of issues. This engine only had 2 flights on it when I bought it with the Revolver. The man gets models to assemble and test for free from companies and he writes the articles about them that they publish the results of.

flyboydale54

Spaceworm: I used 2 of the black insulator blocks, and used a new design that is tan colored, so probably not an issue with the insulator block itself. I used new gaskets each time. The screws were new and I did try other screws. They were not bent. I did not apply excessive force when tightening the screws. One set of new screws were Phillips, and those are very difficult to over tighten since one can not exert much force with a phillips screwdriver with the engine in one hand and the screwdriver in the other. That is mainly why I tried different screws being Allen Head Cap Screws, but I did not over exert the pressure. It cracked easily. I heard the snap and just walked away from the project. I will get back at it soon now that I gave it a rest period as my engineer friend wants to see that new Taylor Craft fly. I had just refused to even start it up after the insulator block went snap. At the time, I did not have anymore money to invest in the project. Thank you very much for your suggestions, they will no doubt prove worthwhile. A Sharpie should work for the marker to check the flatness using emery cloth and a piece of glass. i have just the glass, a glass door off of an entertainment center which should work. Thank you for your suggestions, I will post the findings when I get to the bottom of the problem.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Flyboydale54, interesting read. We share similar views of electric flight and some of the other areas you discussed.

Regarding all the p/n changes on DLE engines, many of those changes were just p/n changes, and not actual part changes. Certainly there have been changes in the DLE 55 over the years but most of those changes were early on. Many were w/o announcement and before they started doing the p/n dance. Few cheap engines (Chinese) have had as many improvements over the years as DLE has. I find them quite good engines and on par with many of the more expensive engines in the market. I regularly fly (2) DLE 55 and find them to be excellent engines. Overall, they are one of my favorite engines with little to complain about. I currently own (8) DLE engines from 20 to 85 cc and though not 100% w/o fault, I find them at least as good as any other engines I have owned in the present or past. I really don't have a brand bias by the way and I wouldn't consider myself a 'fan boy" for any particular engine brand. I just enjoy what works well for me. The DLE55 side exhaust is not discontinued as far as I know and seems to be available in most markets other than those served by Hobbico. At least they were still being produced as recently as last summer.

Edit: looking around, I can no longer find the DLE55 listed at the common vendors and the DLE web site. I stand corrected if it is no longer available.

Keep em flying, regardless of what the power up front is!

flyboydale54

Truckracer: Thank you for your comments. However I agree to disagree. I worked 6 years as a machinist. I know design changes when I see them and I have the old original parts of the DLE-55 to compare side by side with the new ones of the new part numbers, and they are different believe me. "DLE 55 Discontinued by Manufacturer" , source: "http://milehighrc.com/DLE55CC.html". SOME PLACES STILL HAVE SOME OLD STOCK LEFT.

I am going to disassemble my other DLE-55 this winter and replace the original with that newly designed needle bearing on the piston end of the connecting rod because it has proven to fail prematurely. The new part number bearing has a completely different cage housing the roller bearings. This is why I bought two as soon as Tower Hobbies received the new shipment of the new part number. I call it 'Catch-it-before-it-fails". Less parts to buy that way.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Flyboy, did you even bother to read what I had posted above? I clearly stated there had been changes over the years and was not disputing that point. I was however indicating that some of the p/n changes were just that, just number changes. Yes, some p/n changes were associated to new, revised parts but some p/n changes were just that, just a # change. Accept that or not, I don't care. The DLE55 is still a very good engine and especially at it's price point.

Further, I edited my post less than 2 hours after I posted it yesterday to reflect the 55 being discontinued.