aeroflyer

I just looked at the amsoil website and now I am confused. My question is which 2 cycle oil do I use ? I want to mix 50 to 1 for my zdz 60.. Do I use the racing oil or injector oil or what Help
Thanks Paul

Antique

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Amsoil 50-1 racing oil

Geistware

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What is your opinion of the Amsoil 100:1 premix?

Antique

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I have used almost every oil there is, except for Bobby Wilson's "magic" oil...Can't tell much difference...We use Klotz in our racers mixed at 8%...works great...
Any oil should be mixed at whatever the oil manufacturer recommends, maybe slightly richer.....
I don't fly enough to get a good comparison....

flyin_hot

Hi,
I run the Amsoil 100:1 in my DA 100. I started off with the lawnboy ashless for breakin as recommended in the manual. I switched to Amsoil 100:1 after initial breakin. The motor looks very good inside. I just had the pipes off, and had the plane upside down and I took a good look inside with a scope to see how it was doing. The combustion chambers are clean, and the ring lands. The piston tops had just a trace of carbon on them, but no buildup. I didn't see any 'deposites' in there at all. After a full season of running, I think that is very good. Wear wise, the engine looks brand new. I don't think it's completely broken in yet still. I've also kept a pretty good eye on the cyl head temps with a Raytec gun, and they have been in the 160-190 range (190 when it's 90-95 outside). The engine seems real happy with it.

captinjohn

RCIGN: What part no is on the can/cotnainer of Klotz oil you use. Thanks Capt,n

pvs-14

Amsoil injector oil is to be used in conjunction with a 2 stroke oil injection system only. Amsoil racing oil is the formulation to be used in our application (until they come out with a metered injection system for our engines). The racing oil is advertised at a 100:1 mix...but if you look at the back label...they warn that under severe conditions they recomend a blend using more oil than the 100:1. I use amsoil in my ultralight...and I called the Amsoil tech people about this. He said Amsoil no longer recommends their oil for my application. continuing on with the conversation, it became apparent that the only reason for that was because of the liability issue. (can't blame them). Anyway...I have been using Amsoil racing oil in my plane in a 70:1 blend for quite a while with excellent results. The factor of the synthetic oil not protecting parts from corrosion is a non issue for me, as I keep the plane hangered and rotate the crank on a regular schedule...as is similar to our model engines.

Panzlflyer

My Feedback: (15)

If you look at their site you CAN use injector oil as a pre mix.
AT 50-1. Says so right on the Bottle and on the web site.]

"AMSOIL Synthetic 2-Cycle Injector Oil (AIO) is recommended for use in all summer and winter two-cycle injector applications and for pre-mix applications at 50:1 mix ratios. Use AMSOIL Synthetic 2-Cycle Injector Oil wherever TC-W3 or API TC oils are specified in water-cooled or air-cooled motors"

tkg

My Feedback: (1)

The Series 2000 oil is the one you want.

SuperJ

Krish-na....Krish-na..Krish-na

Antique

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KL 200

rfw1953

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To better understand this gas to oil ratio topic here is my question. What determines the gas to oil ratio? The engine manufacturer or the oil company distributing the oil? Let me try this again. The directions for my Fuji 50 say to use 40 parts gas to 1 part oil or a 40 to 1 ratio. I have heard people suggest that I should use Amsoil at a 100 to 1 ratio. When I challenge this the comment is that the engine directions are wrong and that this synthetic oil will be fine at this ratio. Which direction do you follow? The engine manufacturer, oil company or those with experience? Common sense says to follow the engine manufacturers, but the experience I am having right now suggest that the engine manufacturer may not have the facts right??????

First gas engine and having starting difficulty. Currently using Eeco 2 cycle oil at a 25 to 1 brake-in ratio as recommend by Fuji. No directions on oil type and this is my first gasser, so learning. :stupid:

After third run the plug fouled and was pretty black and oily. Also had trouble with flooding before the engine would fire. Fuel coming out of the carb. I have had suggestions to turn the low end setting to make the engine run more rich on the low end because some said they didn't think it was getting enough fuel. But I am now wondering now if this is not all oil related??? I have replaced the plug, but find it still challenging to start, even with a starter. Please let me now your thoughts on running Amsoil at a 100 to 1 ratio, or should I stay with Amsoil at a 40 to 1 ratio. Not: I am still using the 25 to 1 ratio while still in the break-in mode. Have about 45 minutes on the engine.

Thanks kindly for your thoughts and ideas.

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

What oil ratio? I use one that is agreed upon by BOTH the engine manufacturer (who provides the warranty) and oil company. Pick an oil that is approved by the engine manufacturer when in doubt. They have the the engine tear-down experience to know if some brands cause problems.

I'm using Honda HP2 synthetic at 32:1.
That ratio is recommended on the bottle of oil and is richer than the 50:1 ratio minimum recommended by the engine manufacturer.

More oil (within reason and absent plug fouling) means less wear and more power.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

The Fuji is no different from any other 2 stroke..A black fouled plug is from too much fuel, not the oil mix ratio...Old outboards ran fine at 16-1...If your carb needles are more than 2 turns out they're too far...Start it up, open wide, screw the HIGH needle in until the engine peaks, then back it out about 1/4 turn or until the engine slows down slightly..Don't be concerned about getting it too lean, a few seconds will not damage anything..
slow it to idle..As you screw the low needle in the engine will speed up..Stop adjusting at this point..You are now close to the correct setting..Open the throttle..If the engine dies immediately the carb is too lean..Open the low needle about 1/4 turn and try again..If the engine speeds up slowly it's too rich, close the needle 1/4 turn and try again..Tthe correct setting will let the engine accelerate quickly...Go back and re check the high needle..A low needle too far open will affect the high, but not the other way around..The reason for setting the high needle first, is the engine will run with the high needle almost closed if the low needle is too far open...

Ed

For what it's worth, Brison recommends a 64:1 ratio for petroleum based oils. (2 ozs. of oil to 1 gallon of gasoline.) Synthetic oils are much lower, 80:1. (1.6 ozs. per gallon.)

I'm using the Amsoil 100 synthetic mix at 80:1 in their 3.2, with beautiful results.

> Jim

SuperJ

That HP2 is good stuff of course its just Golden Spectro in a different bottle. RC is right about the needles just remember if you reduce the oil ratio you are going to have to lean the motor out to restore the correct air/fuel mixture.

rfw1953

My Feedback: (2)

I called Amsoil direct after checking their website. I was very pleased to get to a human being so quickly. I asked for a technician and he was dog gone helpful. I explained my questions and the difficulty I am having with my engine. He immediately suggested that I change to the Amsoil premix with a 100-1 ratio . He said I should quickly see a change in ease of starting and that the engine would run much cleaner, less likely to foul the plug. I am going to try this and will let you know what I find. Thanks for your ideas and suggestions.

rcflier_gi

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I have to disagree. Add too much oil to a properly set fuel/air mixture and you will have a black plug and a higher chance of fouling the plug as well. A rich fuel mixture and excess oil can each cause black fouled plugs. Triple your oil content and inspect your plug after some flights.

rfw1953

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rcflyer,

I appreciate your point and also agree. I am thinking I need to do both . Let me make my point. The Amsoil tech. encouraged using Amsoil 100 premix with a 100 part gas to 1 part oil ratio, This verifies what a good friend also recommended who has RC experience and also previously raced 2 cycle motorcycles. He told me that many motorcycle racers use Amsoil and run a 130 to one ratio. he highly recommends Amsoil at 100-1 in RC 2 cycle engines. The tech at Amsoil answered one of my questions. He strongly encouraged going by the oil company recommendation vs. the engine mfg. This being a synthetic oil apparently has much to do with the gas to oil ratio. Regardless of the carb setting, his point was that Amsoil at a 100-1 ratio would improve engine performance and help the engine to run cleaner. Note: I have observed that several users of Desert Aircraft engines also use the Amsoil at a 100-1 ratio as also stated on a few of the responses to this thread.

Likewise, I am going to check the low and high settings on the carb. to make sure they are right as well. As I am learning from all this, It would appear that a high quality synthetic oil, at the oil company mixture ratio, combined with a clean plug, set at the the proper gap setting, and the carb tuned right are all very important in good 2 cycle engine performance. This may seem all very obvious, but in this case, I honestly believe the oil type and mixture, combined with a slightly out of adjustment carb. made the engine hard to start and run oily dirty.

I will check this all out and let you know the outcome. At any rate, thanks to each for your responses in helping me learn about this.

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Say Roger:
I would pay attention to Rcign's advice on how to set your carb needles. He makes his living from working on these engines. If you ever crash your engine, he's the one to send it to for repairs. A rich oil setting will not foul the plug in a few gallons of fuel. Many engines have been run on 20:1 oil ratio (in the old days of chain saws etc.) without plug problems. If you are fouling the plug....it's gas! Reset your carb needles.

rfw1953

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks you guys. Points well taken and very helpful. I will work on the carb first. This is my first gasser and as I said, I'm learning.

Last thing I want to do is screw up the engine. I will work on the carb. settings as several of you have recommended. That said, do you think the amsoil 100-1 ratio is a good oil and mixture to use? Rcign's, you commented only on the carb settings. I would appreciate your thoughts about what oil to use and the ratio you would recommend. Not trying to create an argument here, but Diablo suggested that you should use the engine mfg. recommendation. I am hearing different opinions on this from this thread and others with experience and was curious about what you would recommend on this as well.

By the way, Rcign's, I did print out your suggestions for tuning the engine and will follow them in tuning the engine. I really needed this help because frankly, I didn't know how to tune a 2 cycle engine and was very concerned about messing with the settings. Last question before I give this a try. Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.

lynngordon

Amsoil reply (post # 17)

I called Amsoil direct after checking their website. I was very pleased to get to a human being so quickly. I asked for a technician and he was dog gone helpful. I explained my questions and the difficulty I am having with my engine. He immediately suggested that I change to the Amsoil premix with a 100-1 ratio . He said I should quickly see a change in ease of starting and that the engine would run much cleaner, less likely to foul the plug."

Roger, Amsoil is in the buisiness to sell synthetic oil, and I'm sure the tech is a believer in it. Several manufactuerers also say its ok to start off with a synthetic. However - its my belief that I should run at least 5 gallons of non-synthetic gas/oil mix through any of my gas engines before switching to synthetic in order to seat the rings effectively.

I know of a particular case where a 2.4 engine was initially run on Amsoil 50:1 for the first 5 gallons, then switched to Amsoil 100:1 for the next 15 gallons. It was sent back to the manufactuerer at that point because the rings had never seated. The manufactuer ran a couple of gallons of non-synthetic mix through it, but still didn't seat. They had to remove the cylinder and wash down the cylinder and rings with acetone. After that, the rings seated after a couple of gallons of non-synthetic.

I'm not knocking Amsoil - I use it at 100:1 on my broken-in gas engines.

Lynn

lynngordon

Roger, Amsoil is in the business to sell synthetic oil, and I'm sure the tech is a believer in it. Several manufactuerers also say its ok to start off with a synthetic. However - its my belief that I should run at least 5 gallons of non-synthetic gas/oil mix through any of my gas engines before switching to synthetic in order to seat the rings effectively.

I know of a particular case where a 2.4 engine was initially run on Amsoil 50:1 for the first 5 gallons, then switched to Amsoil 100:1 for the next 15 gallons. It was sent back to the manufactuerer at that point because the rings had never seated. The manufactuer ran a couple of gallons of non-synthetic mix through it, but still didn't seat. They had to remove the cylinder and wash down the cylinder and rings with acetone. After that, the rings seated after a couple of gallons of non-synthetic mix.

I'm not knocking Amsoil - I use it at 100:1 on my broken-in gas engines.

Lynn

rfw1953

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Ok, guys, I am falling on my sword. I have had to learn the hard way, but I learned the lesson and will never forget it.

Diablo, Rcign and Lynngordon, thanks for your help. Yes, I listened to you and you all were right.

Maybe this will help some other frustrated pilot, who is wanting to blame everything but himself for engine problems.

I am embarrassed to to tell you what I encountered, but like I said, I am still learning. The main problem was that the kill switch was inverted. Meaning, on was off and off was on. I didn't realize this until after multiple failed engine start attempts hand flipping and after using a converted 3/8 drill starter. When I did get the engine started, the kill switch must have been in the off postion, which was actually in the on position, but I didn't realize it. :stupid:

After figuring this out by trying the engine in the off position, it started. Once we had it started, with a new plug and a 40-1 gas mixture with Sthil 2 cycle oil, and high octane Amoco white gas, we then adjusted the carb. It was set rich from the manufacturer on the high and low end for break-in. I had about one hour on the Fuji 50 so I converted to the 40-1 ratio manufacturer recommendation. We had to lean out the mixture on the low and high ends with about a 1/8 turn of the needles. Engine idled and came up to top end without hesitation. Now for the hand flip. Three flips, and, bam! She started. The Megatron starter came in Friday afternoon which was a big help working through he spark problem. I might have still been there flipping away had the starter not come in to reveal that I just wasn't getting spark. Go figure. :stupid:

As for Amsoil as an alternative, well, Lynn helped me in an email that others have verified. What I have learned is that synthetic oil can keep the rings from setting properly on break-in. Some have used a mixture of 50-1 with no problems, but then others, apparently, have had ring problems using a synthetic on break-in. As for what I was experiencing, Recign, Diablo, and Lynngordon, you were right on. My fouled plug problems were a combination of flooding from a lack of spark. ( kill switch problem) and a rich carb settings. All of which are operator related while still learning with my first gasser.

As for the Fuji 50 mageneto generated spark, well, three hand flips and bam, runs great. The Megatron is a wonderful starter that I will always have for back-up for my next brain-fart.

Thanks again for all the help. I am nowback on track.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Spoke with a repair tech at Brison about my 3.2. He said Amsoil 2000 at 80:1 is his first choice. Don't use a break-in oil or worry about the rings.

He said that's his conclusion after rebuilding over 2000 engines. Compared to someone who sells oil and has never rebuilt one of our engines or somebody who owns one or three and has never torn one down, I'll go with his recomendation.

Richard