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Glitches, help needed

Old 12-18-2007, 07:55 PM
  #26  
nonstoprc
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

12-20"? No way. On my Extra 260, it is about 8 inches.
Old 12-18-2007, 08:01 PM
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Al Lewis
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

That's what I use, whenever possible.
Old 12-18-2007, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

Sure.

On mine, the receiver (pcm) will fall into the fall-over mode whenever a bad interference is present and sensed.

The twitching you noticed is caused by the higher-than-perfect voltage from the freshly charged pack. There is no RF involved. This happens more oftern to Futaba servos than Hitech brand. My two Futaba 9202 servos were ruined becaues of this.
Old 12-18-2007, 08:16 PM
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

Ever noticed that the day after you notice a servo twitching Tower puts in a note "This servo is not recomended for airplane use". But it hasn't showed up in the hightech pages yet, just some Futabas.
Old 12-18-2007, 08:18 PM
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Al Lewis
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

Yes but it also happens to the 5955. I've seen it first hand. I really do have a feeling that this is his problem. First time I saw one of my planes do it I went into a panic. LOL After our head instructor told me what it was I never worried about it again. This may not be the answer but it sure is worth checking before changing things around and replacing equipment.
Old 12-18-2007, 08:36 PM
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craigteffe
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

Mark,
I have the same plane with the same engine and all was good with mine except for lockout at certain positions while flying. My range checks were all good. What i think it is, is the carbon fiber covering running down the side of the airplane and around the cowl. I changed over to XPS 2.4 with my 9cap and problem with lockout fixed. I am not sure why you may be having this problem but you might also try to swap your reciever out with known good one.

This plane is a rocket with that engine my plane came out at 14lb 9oz dry.

Craig Teffeteller
Old 12-18-2007, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

Do not know other Futaba servos since I switched to Hitech long time back. Fut 9202s are good airplane servos and rated for 6v. The two were fixed by Radio South.
Old 12-19-2007, 11:22 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

All good advise, but the originall question was only one servo twitching, the rudder. Have you checked the rudder closed loop yet to see it they are vibrating against each other?

Mike
Old 12-20-2007, 01:57 AM
  #34  
Mark Burgess
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

Thanks for all the tips.

I'm gonna try a new PCM RX on the weekend plus check on all the advice you guys have given. I got a heap of good advice from Precision Aerobatics (the supplier of the plane and engine) and they have also offered to swop the ingnition if needed.

Watch this space on Sunday................
Old 12-20-2007, 05:46 AM
  #35  
DelGatoGrande
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

ORIGINAL: Mark Burgess

Thanks for all the tips.

I'm gonna try a new PCM RX on the weekend plus check on all the advice you guys have given. I got a heap of good advice from Precision Aerobatics (the supplier of the plane and engine) and they have also offered to swop the ingnition if needed.

Watch this space on Sunday................
Hello Mr.Mark!..i wish i read your post sooner...cose i.."been there ,done that"

dont get the PCM RX

do your self a favor and get a [link=http://www.powerbox-systems.com/e/powerbox_systeme/powerbox_40_16_expert/start.php]PowerBox Evolution[/link] and a [link=http://www.powerbox-systems.com/e/powerbox_systeme/digi_switch/start.php]Digiswitch[/link] for your ignition the problem will absolute go away!
[sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]

this servos from hitec have a great re-power from the motor

and in the emcotec power supply are nothing do against this problem!

the next problem is that in this emcotec BIG is only one regulator inside,

it is not a double power system, so this big servos from hitec get not enough power for the motor and electronic,

then the third problem is the ignition switch from emcotec, there is only one of the three cables to the receiver with optocoppler, so the ignition glitches can get free to the receiver.


...now you have no excuse not to fly ! in my ultimade i run 4 5955 for the rudder!set up is da150 and powerbox champion

with a pair of 2800 lipos from powerboxs!never let me down!...

you will love this plane...had one [] gave it away [] and regret it[&o]

hmmm now i think it again your airframe and engine are no good...wana sell it?

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Old 12-20-2007, 07:25 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

Hey Mark,
have u figured it out yet.??
I am running the exact same setup u got and had similar issues, i traced mine back to the antenna Hitting the back tail wheel make sure u tape the antenna under the fuse away from the tail gear as the is Composite A conductor

2x check your dpsi switch and make sure ur Output current is no larger than 6v if its more than that this will cause glitches

3x ignitiong module Must be Well away from the reciever i will leave a picture of my interior setup hope this helps

if none of this works tr plugging in another servo in that chanel see what happendes Could also be a faulty servo
where bouts in aus r u.? im in syd...
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:12 PM
  #37  
firemedic305
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

I was having the same thing happen with my Extra after changing from a DA50 to a ZDZ 80. I tried everything including going from a 6V to a 4.8v battery with no change. So today I put in a PCM receiver and now I can go to the other side of the house and 300 ft and it did not go into fail safe one time. I use all Hitec servos and Futaba 9C TX. I will be trying it in the air as soon as I have a day to go. Gary
Old 12-21-2007, 12:54 AM
  #38  
Mark Burgess
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

I am in Loxton, South Australia.
The first thing I did was to move the arial as mine was actally touching the CF tail wheel. My RX is as far from the ignition module as possible, same as yours. Look at my Pics in my gallery. I'm spending Satuday working on the plane doing what ever I can using the advise I've recieved from you guys and then it's out to the field on Sunday !!! I can't run the engine at home, well I can but I won't be able to do a range check.


Mark
Old 12-21-2007, 02:29 PM
  #39  
AussiePilot
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

To be honest with u i can see ur control linkage to the motor I dont like it one bit, That may be causing the interference
When u motor is running alot of vibrations gong through the model, and that linkage will be Jumping up and down like crazy Causeing Rf noises and is also close to those witres.
Im using a plastic Throttle control and is mounted straight in front of the tank
Old 12-21-2007, 04:29 PM
  #40  
firemedic305
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

With engine running if you are getting glitches on a range check and turn off the TX and glitches go away does that rule out the engine?
Old 12-21-2007, 05:53 PM
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Jake Ruddy
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

A good rule of thumb to follow.... do a range check with the engine off.. then do one with the engine running. Your target should be 90% of distance with the engine off.

Aussie.. I thought about the throttle linkage as well... however with it using a plastic arm on the servo it's not metal on metal. Personally I prefer to use plastic linkage with a ball joint on the carb and plastic clevis on the servo. Many use metal linkage with plastic on both ends... that is the key part.
Old 12-23-2007, 05:38 AM
  #42  
Mark Burgess
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

The Edge is still grounded but there is light at the end on the tunnel !!

These are the changes I have made.

-The rudder cables have been separated by a plastic bar.
-The Ignition battery and the reciever battery are as far apart as I can get them while still keeping them in the plane
-The Ignition module has been soft mounted on foam and held on with velcro

Today I tried again, Engine running, with my PPM RX with the above changes............ the rudder glitched at about 20 paces.
I unplugged the Emcotec BIC and plugged a normal RX flight pack directly into the RX............. the rudder glitched at about 20 paces.
I then used a mates JR transmitter and his PCM RX and the Jitter stopped............But went into failsafe at 38 paces, airal down etc.
So now the rudder glitch has gone is 38 paces an OK range test ????
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Old 12-23-2007, 06:10 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed


ORIGINAL: firemedic305

With engine running if you are getting glitches on a range check and turn off the TX and glitches go away does that rule out the engine?

-----------------


No. It means that your PCM/2.4 GHz digital receiver has gone into fail safe or sleep mode. It isn't receiving anything, so it passes nothing along to the servos, whereas an FM/PPM system would have the servos jumping all over the place. The point is, neither system is doing anything useful with the Tx turned off.


Ed Cregger
Old 12-23-2007, 06:15 AM
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed


ORIGINAL: firemedic305

I was having the same thing happen with my Extra after changing from a DA50 to a ZDZ 80. I tried everything including going from a 6V to a 4.8v battery with no change. So today I put in a PCM receiver and now I can go to the other side of the house and 300 ft and it did not go into fail safe one time. I use all Hitec servos and Futaba 9C TX. I will be trying it in the air as soon as I have a day to go. Gary

--------------


PCM should never be used to "remedy" a situation where an FM/PPM receiver will not work properly. There is the very real possibility that your previous receiver is defective, also.

If it isn't safe to fly with an FM/PPM receiver that is known to be in proper operating condition, it simply isn't safe to fly at all. After all, both PCM and FM/PPM devices use basically the same type of RF section to their receivers. The decoders are different, but neither type has the ability to truly filter out problem ignition noise to the point where it is safe to fly PCM, but not safe to fly FM/PPM. I know this is difficult to believe for some folks, but it is true.


Ed Cregger
Old 12-23-2007, 10:53 AM
  #45  
Jake Ruddy
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

Well to be honest "paces" are hard to measure.. for example when I walk (for a range check) I do very long paces that are roughly 3 feet each and according to my instructions 90' (or 30 paces) is what is required for a safe range check.

That aside... you should be able to get close to 90% of the number of paces with the engine off and you can get with the engine on.

My suggestion would be to borrow a friend's ignition and see what your results are. You have been pretty much eliminating everything fairly well.. but haven't changed that yet. I have seen a few times where they are going bad or arching inside and causing more RF than normal.

You can also try putting another resistor type plug in there as well if you havent tried that.
Old 12-23-2007, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

Here are some pics of my layout. I moved my reciever up aboue everything else and that helped but what helped the most was the 2.4 xps system.

I would do what Jake said a try a friends iginition and or another resistor plug the plug could be bad causing the rf noise.

Is your extensions twisted or flat? If flat that could be your problem, try twisting the servo extensions.
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Old 12-23-2007, 12:20 PM
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firemedic305
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

How about if it is with a ppm?
Old 12-23-2007, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

Whether 38 paces is OK depends on the number of paces when the engine is off. See the story below lifted from [link=http://www.jrradios.com/Articles/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1079&Page=7]JR radio range check[/link]

"Lucky save

A fellow giant scale flyer, with a spark ignition system, was noticing that his model was occasionally "not locked in". We did a range test with his 8103, antenna off and he had 121 feet- not too bad for conditions. With the engine running, he got only 38- one-third his regular range. Looking at his installation, he had a number of Giant Scale "no-no's"... his throttle servo was located in close proximity to his ignition system, plus his throttle pushrod was metal - both great ways to play havoc with your radio. Even though he'd had several successful flights, he wisely quit flying for the day. A re-routing of equipment brought his engine-on range to within 10% of engine off."

As noted in previous posting, the off-pace number should be about 38/0.9 = 43 paces. Beyond that, the problem still exists.
Old 12-24-2007, 12:16 AM
  #49  
Mark Burgess
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

I have tried 2 plugs and there was no change. Obviously I used the original plug that came with the motor. I also have tried a NGK CM-6. The NGK is not a resistor plug. Iv'e been told that the plug lead has a built in resistor and the cap is shielded as well as the lead. I recon I need to try a different Ignition. Its the only thing left....

Mark
Old 12-24-2007, 12:33 AM
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Default RE: Glitches, help needed

It might be interesting to know if a different Rudder servo will act the same.

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