Captmicom

Well put Steve...[8D]

raydar

If you mean the prop? I got it from ebay second hand but the graupner prop range is availible in quite alot of internet shops in the uk, full price is about £15.

If you mean the engine its the 20 cc gasser hobbyking sells.

If you are just having a laugh at the size of the prop fair enough but you should know the picture makes that prop look silly big on that model but in real life it is not by the time you fit the top wing.

RACJ

Aussiesteve, I like you and I belive 100% that you,Piston,and other distributers have the very best intentions for the hobby. However,this problem with Chinese companys is nothing new.I'm 60yrs.old,when I was in high school in the 1960's my uncle traveled the world for co. he worked for. Always brought back electronics,cameras,etc. form China,Japan,etc. Soon all his friends wanted to buy a bunch and be a distributer. Of course we know the end result. When will one person realize they can't become a distributer for a company and change the whole company to their way of thought or business,especially a foreighn company that your country has no control over their practices(and should not have this control). One American(or Aussie) cannot control a Chinese company. Heck,last week China issued a warning to America and other countries about currency devaluations,no way anyone is gonna control a micky mouse little gas engine copy cat manufactuer. My last post,this isn't worth my time(I type with only one finger and it's getting a blister)

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

Briefly, my experience with RCGF engines has been a tale of opposites. I bought a 20cc side-draft from Henry and it runs like a scalded cat. I was so pleased that I bought a rear-intake version from TBM (Henry was gone by this time) and it ran so bad I sent it to Agape Racing to fix it up. Jim found 2,000 more rpm's and it now hand starts. Most of the repairs are tied into QC issues. The Rear-intake is a torquer and the side-draft is a screamer. They are in use now and I'll run them til they fail.

I now buy DLE's and am not looking back.

aussiesteve

RACJ
You and I are absolutely on the same page with those thoughts. I must have evolved a little more than you (being only a few years younger) - I use 2 fingers on my keyboard - and they both hurt

Lifer
You have discovered what my sig line refers to - the price doesn't need to be significantly more for it to be valid.
You experienced one enigne fm a distributor that took care with what he supplied and had each engine inspected prior to delivery. Quite likely issues were found during those inspections and they were corrected. I spoke regularly with Henry in those days and I know full well what he was doing and how much it was costing him to make sure the engines were as good as they could be for delivery. He also scrapped a lot of parts.
Your second one came fom a batch that was sent direct from the factory to their shipping container then was most likely not touched again until you got it. It took the efforts of another dealer who cared about the customer to make it run as well as it would.

Meanwhile the factory has sold both enignes at the same profit, the owners of the factory can tell all their peers how "successful" they are and the latest distributors and the customers can deal with the fallout.

I know Joe is working very hard to help deal with that fallout and I truly wish him well and hope the factory doesn't do to him what they have done to pretty much every other dealer they have had to date.

As RACJ said - we have no hope of changing them - especially as there is a never ending list of people who will be ready to make the next order for the brand and pay full price for the "same old, same old" as those who went before them.

acerc

Well all that aside. In the process of installing a RCGF 26cc onto a cub frame to get all the holes cut, I noticed something. The timing was way different than that of the other engine I have. So at this point I got out all the timing tools, checked and reset. The older one was at 24degs btdc and the new one was at38 degs btdc. Went and set both at 28 degs. Took the waco with the older one out today and it runs even better. Now, it's not any major difference, actually quite minor. But different all the same.Got back home and started the new one up again, and it runs just as well. My point is, from 24 degs to38 degs is quite a bit of defference. But could not tell that differece buy running them, not until cerrected. Now I can tell the difference. So from here on I will verify the timing of all engines first thing.

gringopete

The factory most of the time is very conservative on the timing. We always advise customers at high altitudes to advance the timing. How much depends on how high. timing is always a trade off between how easy it is to start verses peak and low end rpm. These engines are so simple that timing is not a big issue. my 69 jag roadster could be timed within 1/16 of one degree, now that made a big difference in the way the engine ran.

raydar

I would disagree on the timing not being a big issue on any small gas engine, you could struggle with tuning, loose alot of power and worst case (unlikely but possible) damage the engine with poor timing due to precombustion.

There is alot of people new to gas out therestruggling to set there low and high needles and scratching there head as to why there engine wont throw a decent size prop at x amount of rpm, my advise is always check the static timing first. But that is only my opinion im sure there is many out there.

Warbirdguy

Ive been in the business of 2 cycle engines for 30+ years. I always check the timing on my engines. An engine with too high of a timing can preignite. Ive seem my fair share of holes melted through piston tops from detonation. If you have the tools and knowledge to check the timing, do so. Dont take someone elses word for it that may not even know what timing is. ( a line worker in some other country that has no clue what they are building )

WBG

acerc

My post was merely an observation. I know better than to not check timing. Several year's of dirtbike repair with idiots thinking a plug 5 times hotter than required would give more power.LLLLOOOOLLLL. Lot's of piston replacement's. The one at  24degs would not of been an issue but the one at 38 would have been in need of replacement quickly.
The real question for me to me is why I did not. Alzheimers I quess.

aussiesteve

Anyone that thinks any of the Chinese enignes leave the factory "ready to go" is kidding themselves. Ignition timing should always be checked as should initial needle settings. Granted there are a couple of factories that get them right most of the time and there are a couple of distributors that also do the check and adjustments, unfortunately they are the minority.

There are two very clear reasons some factories send engines with significantly advanced timing

1 - The propensity for those that don't know any different to choose an engine because it will spin a XXX prop at YYY RPM and not have a real clue what a decent mid range curve looks, sounds or feels like. Advancing the timing to levels such as 38 - 45 degrees will assist in getting that top RPM (for a short while).

2 - The relationship between the mounting holes for the sensor and the magnet on the hub varies due to the necessity to drive the hub via a keyway that is not accurately placed in relation to the magnet. Many times, modifications are needed to get the sensor to the correct location (either by redrilling the mounting holes or by enlarging the slots in the sensor mount). Th e factory worker simply assembles the engine according to what he or she is told to do ("bolt sensor here Ni Biao").

The significantly advanced timing (it is common to see some factories supply at 45 d BTDC) is not only harming the engine and making a difficult start but it can also be dangerous to those starting the engine when a kickback occurs. I have no doubt that it will be tested in court one of these days and the seller will be left holding the can for providing a product that was not in proper configuration for use.

Captmicom

That is a real good idea.

raydar

My first rcg 20 was miles out, adjusted easy within adjustment range, at 28 degrees its powerfull, starts in a few flips hot or cold and has good power right through the rpm range.

My second was spot on from the factory with the sensor in the middle of the adjustment range, again startsno problembut so far has not been dialed in and flown.

Maybethere is some engine manufacturers that try somedodgy trickson the timing butfor rcg/rcgf it seems it is a simple case of the sensor being thown on at thefactoryto be adjusted later by the customer, not into conspiracy theoriesI dont believe with rcg/rcgf they set there engines to get damaged on purpose from the factory.

It just makes sense to check the timing, especially before playing with needles.

Captmicom

Hey Raydar,

Yup… That is pretty much it.. “The black thing goes on this way and the screws go in like this!� If you get one assembled by a seasoned employee then there will be some consistency but if you get the new guy then all bets are off. It is best to check it just to be sure. If anyone needs the timing and test tools I carry them just let me know.

Captmicom

Whistling Death

My 32cc was of by about 3°-4°
the 45cc was of almost 8°.

raydar

Was at the field again today with the bolt, ran a couple more tanks through it and set the needles to get a reliable idle and transition, no major problems in doing so.

Tached the engine with the graupner 3 blade 15 8 3 and got 7800 rpm again, prop figures dont mean much though thrust figures are more important, got consistantly 12 lb thrust on the trusty fish scales.

This was good news as this models weight is creeping up and is 10 lb 6 oz and may need another 6 oz in the nose yet for balance.

When I lift the model by the nose and felt the weight I was concerned that the little engine with a 3 blade prop would nothave enough thrust for good vertical but holding the tail today and going full throttle was reasuring that this combo will produce more than just sport flying performance.

mesaflyer

Ohh, don't worry. I'm fly'n a Sea Fury that weights 14 1/2 lbs with a RCGF 20cc, MAS 16x8 turning about 7400 rpm's. Take off and fly's just fine, it's the landings that I get nervous about!

Warbirdguy

Going to be running two 16x8 three blades on the 26's Im putting on this DC3. Only cause its the largest dia I can do.

WBG

WindGap

My Feedback: (3)

Any news on 40cc twin? Weight? Dimensions? Could it replace a DLE 30?

Captmicom

Here is what I have. top of jug to top of jug 7.5 inches across. Because the plugs are not angled Add 1 and 3/8 inches per spark plug and CDI cap. Prop hub to back of motor mount is 5.25 inches. If you do the math this thing comes out to 10.25 inches wide dressed and ready to fly. You are not going to be sticking it into anything built for a 30cc engine as in Yak, Edge, Extra and so on. It will make a great engine for say one of my Big Cessna 182s with a 10 ft. wing span or something in that scale config. That is as close as I can get you for now. My load is in transit and should be here this week. I will let you know if they put my copy of the 40cc twin in this load.

Captmicom

Falcon32

Guys, a couple of pages back I was looking for some advice on tuning the RCGF45.
I’d like to give you an update and ask another question.
I got out to the field yesterday and worked on it a lot more and this is where I’m at.
I got the max revs up by about 200 (6400) or so, but idle and transition needs more work.
Idle is at 1800 but after about 10 seconds it drops to 1500 stays there for a few seconds and then goes back up to 1800. It will continue to do this no matter how long I leave it at idle.
Also after an extended idle, over a minute, if I slam the throttle open I get a slight hesitation somewhere in the mid range before I get full revs.
It’s not like it’s bogging down, coughing and sputtering and it doesn’t quit but it’s not giving me full confidence either.
One other question, I noticed someone suggested the direct replacement WALBRO carb was the HDA-48 and another suggested the DLE 50/55 carb would do the trick, if I were to change the carb, which do you think would be the best choice.

Thanks

Captmicom

I might have suggested the Walbro HDA-48 because it is the same carb that is used on the Zenoah 45cc and 62cc engines and should be readily available on the market. Another good domestic carb would be the Walbro WT664A-116. I have these on 55cc engines that I have for sale. If price is an issue then I would use a replacement carb for the DLE/EME 55cc engine. Did you check the timing? These little engines can be cantankerous and do just this when the timing is out so be sure that the timing is in the right place before beating up your carb.

Captmicom

Falcon32

I bought the Rcexel timing tool and made sure that was OK before I even started it first time, it was set 28 - 30 degrees.
Price is always an issue unfortunately, at least that's what my wife says and the DLE carb is probably easier to get here in the UK.

Thanks

Captmicom

Hey Falcon,

I am an idiot!! I did not look at your profile sorry. The DLE should work just fine for you.

Captmicom

Falcon32

Hi Captmicom
Thanks for the info on the carbs, do you have any idea why the idle won't stay steady at a constant RPM it doesn't sound rough and if I raise it to a high idle say 2400 it will settle and stay there?

Thanks