ZDZ 60 Won't Start Mystery
09-15-2008, 04:15 PM
#1
ZDZ 60 Won't Start Mystery
Hi,
My RC neighbor and I have a friend visiting from out of town who is here to maiden his TF GS P51 that he scaled out very nicely. He was here about three months ago and we ran and tuned his new ZDZ60, but didn't manage to do the maiden because we ran into four consecutive days of strong wind. So, he is back to try again. The problem is that the engine won't start. We have contacted RC Showcase and are waiting for a return call. In the meantime, I though I would make a post here to see if anyone can make any suggestions for steps for us to try while we are waiting. The engine ran great a few months ago and he says he did not touch anything, but now it won't firenot a single pop. Here's the situation:
1. We confirmed we are getting spark by removing the plug and holding it against the case. Not having any way to measure the strength of the spark, we have also changed the plug (and gapped it) and change the ignition battery. No change.
2. The compression seems fine, based upon how it feels when turning the engine over by hand.
3. We have verified that the timing is at least roughly correct. By this I mean that the timing adjustment mechanism is tight and has not been changed and when we had the plug out we located TDC and looked at where the magnet is under the sensor, I can't say for sure that the magnet is exactly under the sensor 28 degrees before TDC, but it's at least very close.
4. We know it is getting fuel based upon visual inspection of the plug. I could also tell when we tried the 5-5-1 starting approach that the engine was primed, based upon the feel and sound of the engine. We also tried putting a small amount of gas directly into the carb with the butterfly open and still don't get a single pop.
5. We have tried both hand starting and a heavy duty starter that turns the engine over nicely and we cannot get a single pop, nada. If the engine was flooded, I would expect that the starter would at least give us a pop after 10 seconds or so. We get nothing.
6. The H and L needles were at 1.25 turns and 1.5 turns respectively when we started and we tried resetting them both at 1.5 turns out. We found a note on the RC Showcase Website that indicated the low needle should be 2.25 turns out (contrary to the instructions that came with the engine), so we have also tried that, but it made no difference.
At this point, I don't know what else to try. I suspect that something is wrong in the carb or perhaps internally in the engine. Is it possible that the engine ingested something at the end of the last run and a passage or port is completely blocked?
Any suggestions for things to try or look at would be greatly appreciated. This one has me stumped!
-Ed B.
My RC neighbor and I have a friend visiting from out of town who is here to maiden his TF GS P51 that he scaled out very nicely. He was here about three months ago and we ran and tuned his new ZDZ60, but didn't manage to do the maiden because we ran into four consecutive days of strong wind. So, he is back to try again. The problem is that the engine won't start. We have contacted RC Showcase and are waiting for a return call. In the meantime, I though I would make a post here to see if anyone can make any suggestions for steps for us to try while we are waiting. The engine ran great a few months ago and he says he did not touch anything, but now it won't firenot a single pop. Here's the situation:
1. We confirmed we are getting spark by removing the plug and holding it against the case. Not having any way to measure the strength of the spark, we have also changed the plug (and gapped it) and change the ignition battery. No change.
2. The compression seems fine, based upon how it feels when turning the engine over by hand.
3. We have verified that the timing is at least roughly correct. By this I mean that the timing adjustment mechanism is tight and has not been changed and when we had the plug out we located TDC and looked at where the magnet is under the sensor, I can't say for sure that the magnet is exactly under the sensor 28 degrees before TDC, but it's at least very close.
4. We know it is getting fuel based upon visual inspection of the plug. I could also tell when we tried the 5-5-1 starting approach that the engine was primed, based upon the feel and sound of the engine. We also tried putting a small amount of gas directly into the carb with the butterfly open and still don't get a single pop.
5. We have tried both hand starting and a heavy duty starter that turns the engine over nicely and we cannot get a single pop, nada. If the engine was flooded, I would expect that the starter would at least give us a pop after 10 seconds or so. We get nothing.
6. The H and L needles were at 1.25 turns and 1.5 turns respectively when we started and we tried resetting them both at 1.5 turns out. We found a note on the RC Showcase Website that indicated the low needle should be 2.25 turns out (contrary to the instructions that came with the engine), so we have also tried that, but it made no difference.
At this point, I don't know what else to try. I suspect that something is wrong in the carb or perhaps internally in the engine. Is it possible that the engine ingested something at the end of the last run and a passage or port is completely blocked?
Any suggestions for things to try or look at would be greatly appreciated. This one has me stumped!
-Ed B.
09-16-2008, 01:03 PM
#2
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kalona,
IA
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RE: ZDZ 60 Won't Start Mystery
...did the ignition just toss a spark through the plug, against the cylinder upon powering it on....or did it also spark with each pass of the hall sensor?
09-16-2008, 01:14 PM
#3
RE: ZDZ 60 Won't Start Mystery
New engine?
the setting for the sensor is not 28 degrees BTDC
where did you get that info?
a tTDC the instructions on new engines did show : 7mm from magnet center to pickup center at TDC.
Isn't that what the instructions said? All my current ZDZs are that setting and starting is a simple wet the carb go to low idle and easily flip over the prop.
the setting for the sensor is not 28 degrees BTDC
where did you get that info?
a tTDC the instructions on new engines did show : 7mm from magnet center to pickup center at TDC.
Isn't that what the instructions said? All my current ZDZs are that setting and starting is a simple wet the carb go to low idle and easily flip over the prop.
09-16-2008, 02:03 PM
#4
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Location: Kalona,
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RE: ZDZ 60 Won't Start Mystery
Here you go!
40 RV-L - 6 mm
60 RV - 6,5 mm
80 RV - 6,5 mm
80RV-J - 7 mm
80 B2RV – 6,5 mm
100B2NG - 6,5 mm
120/160B2RV – 7 mm
160B2RV-J - 7 mm
210B2RV – 9 mm
40 RV-L - 6 mm
60 RV - 6,5 mm
80 RV - 6,5 mm
80RV-J - 7 mm
80 B2RV – 6,5 mm
100B2NG - 6,5 mm
120/160B2RV – 7 mm
160B2RV-J - 7 mm
210B2RV – 9 mm
09-16-2008, 03:42 PM
#5
RE: ZDZ 60 Won't Start Mystery
Yes, the plug does spark each time the magnet passes the sensor, not just when the ignition is first turned on. About the timing, yes it is per spec6.5mm from magnet center to pickup center at TDC. Forget what I said about 28 degrees. The engine ran fine a few months ago and the owner said he did not touch the timing or anything else, so it's a mystery.
I just received word that RCShowcase called back and they think it's something in the carb, so we will look at that tonight.
-Ed B.
I just received word that RCShowcase called back and they think it's something in the carb, so we will look at that tonight.
-Ed B.
