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Which Gasser

Old 12-28-2008, 11:54 AM
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kahn41
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Default Which Gasser

I'm looking for a second Gasser my first is a Brillelli 36cc. I have been reading a lot here and I'm at wits end on which to buy.. Does anyone have the following engines? let me know your experiences!! The one I'm kind of leaning toward is the xyz 50 because of the price. All comments welcome

1 aerovate 50cc
2 DL 50cc
3 RCS 50cc
4 XYZ 50cc
Old 12-28-2008, 12:03 PM
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Tired Old Man
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Default RE: Which Gasser

Any of the 4 noted you can afford.
Old 12-28-2008, 12:20 PM
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kahn41
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Default RE: Which Gasser

Yes I could... but the XYZ 50 is 259.00 compared to well over 300.00 for the others. Another contributing factor is how good are they? how do they run? against the other 3
Old 12-28-2008, 02:06 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

I'm not going to enter that discussion. You can find hundreds of pages devoted to which is better. The answer will always come back to the one you can afford the easiest. All of them are good, so pick the lightest one and be happy.
Old 12-28-2008, 06:38 PM
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georbeckha
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Default RE: Which Gasser

I have the XYZ 50 and so far am very impressed with it.
It's in a Nitroplanes Yak 54 50cc sized beasty, and while vertical is not out of site, it does haul it with authority.
Right out of the box, installed onto the Yak (But with no Cowl installed for easy tuning) I flipped it full choke etc until it popped, closed everything and opened the choke and it fired up first flip.
I'm using a 2800mah 6v NiMh pack on the ignition. I'm also turning an APC 20x10 using 32:1 oil mix.

They're also working on a 50cc HP (High Power version) they say will retail a little over $300 but they have not released it yet.

This is just my opinion on an engine I have used. I have not used any of the others so cannot comment on any of them.

George




ORIGINAL: kahn41

Yes I could... but the XYZ 50 is 259.00 compared to well over 300.00 for the others. Another contributing factor is how good are they? how do they run? against the other 3
Old 12-28-2008, 06:46 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

Here we go!
Old 12-28-2008, 06:53 PM
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kahn41
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Default RE: Which Gasser

georbeckha, that is the kind of response I am looking for. Its really not what I can afford. And to be truthfully honest I don't want to invest much more into this hobby. but buying a high priced engine you are not necessary getting your moneys worth. I'm finding out that some of your lower end engines are proving better that the high priced ones. Its just a hard decision without much experience in Gasser's.
I'm not looking for any kind of debate here. IMHO everyone's opinion will be respected by me as should be by others! Its just a forum for experience to be passed on..
Greg
Old 12-28-2008, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

I have no personal experiences here but as TOM alluded to and from all the reports I've read the XYZ is a fairly decent running engine, but is not only the cheapest of the lot you listed but also the least powerful.

Read the XYZ thread here and make your own judgement.

Karol
Old 12-28-2008, 07:31 PM
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georbeckha
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Default RE: Which Gasser


ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

Here we go!

Here we go what? What do ya mean by that? Did I say something inaccurate or wrong? Did I bash any manufacturer or model? (Or person for that matter?)
If anything I said above is wrong or offensive let me know and I'll respectfully edit the post.
Old 12-28-2008, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

No, you simply alluded that your particular engine was one of the better ones. That's the problem.

Many people responding to this type of thread only have experience with one relatively low budget engine (especially here on RCU) and if it ran it must be good. At that they have a very limited amount of time on the engine. Well under 50 hours. They've never taken one apart and didn't know what to look for if they did. So how the heck do they make a determination as to the quality of an engine? Is it based on a few posts made by other people that talked up how many rpm they got with ABC engine and how the "mid range" worked out? Was the peak torque found at an rpm level that was easily attained? What prop was used for determinations and why? Was that actually a "performance" prop or one that spun a lot of rpm without doing any work? How long did it take for the rings to seat and what was the condition of the cylinder and ring(s) after it did so? How have the bearings held up? How well is the crank made? How straight? Does the engine have roller bearings at all rotation points? What type of bearings? Can you obtain parts easily? Is repair service readily available? How well is warranty work handled? How many hours wil the engine last? Less than 300 and it's not worth having, and at that low a number it better have been real cheap and required no additional work in the time period.

So how does one decide what is or isn't a good engine?

I have experience with most all of them and the few that I have not "handled" can be counted on one hand while missing some fingers. Every engine that was noted would suit his purposes, especially since the notation that little additional expense was desired. If he desired long term durability then he needs to look at engines that have a proven long term life cycle. They cost more, btw. Only RCS on his list has been around for any length of time, while all the rest have hit the market in the last year and a half or less. Even with that the RCS 50 is a relatively new release.

If you want power and quality you will pay for it. It's that simple and it's been well proven over the past 10-15 years. Your other option is to go for what you can afford now and hope for the best. I have no problem buying "budget" engines but I can afford to replace them as needed, and frequently, if and when they fail. Can you do the same or will you be stuck at the hanger if and when an engines dies? The answer to that question will determine the quality level you should be willling to pay the first time. If you can't afford to replace or wait forever for parts and service, you better look to the good stuff the first time.

So again, any of the engines noted in the first thread will work just fine and for the most part should be considered about equal. From there the difference in general performance will be up to the user in how they tune, prop, and care for them. In the meantime let the debate begin and forever roll on in the quest for the engine Holy Grail. For me a 50 is a 50. You can make a Brison 3.2 run as good as a DA 50 while you can take a Taurus 3.2 and beat them both.

BTW, some 50's were omitted from the list. I'll presume it was because of a higher price. DA, 3mm, MT, BME, ZDZ, and 3w come to mind. Some great choices in the group previously omitted.
Old 12-28-2008, 11:24 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

No, you simply alluded that your particular engine was one of the better ones. That's the problem.
No I didn't in the least. All I did was to state exactly without exaggeration my experience with this particular motor. Yes, I know some people have problems with this motor. No, I have not yet (Yes, I said yet) had any problems with it. If I did then I would have said.

The original question states simply was
let me know your experiences!!
This I did. I did not knock any other engine because I have no experiences with any of the other mentioned engines.
Am I a newbie to Gas Engines? Yes
Have I had any problems with mine yet? No, Not yet.
Have I taken mine apart and put it back together yet? Yes. I do this with all my engines to flush them out and make sure there is no flashing/junk in the engines.

That being said I know there are a lot of people here on RCU that have a lot more experience with Gassers. Do I knock anyones opinion? No. Do I make smart comments about here we go again? No. I have not.

I have the utmost respect for people that have more knowledge than I do.

That being said, I am unsubscribing to this thread now because there is nothing more constructive I can add that hasn't already been said.
Old 12-28-2008, 11:48 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

You do more than most in disassembling your engines to assure a lack of foreign matter and eliminating the possibility of later renegade flashing. Kudos to you!
Old 12-29-2008, 12:21 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

You know, problems with the new DA85s were posted quickly...( NOT a budget motor )
This is mainly why I am on here is to head off problems for myself...
When I see posted gentleman replacing DA 50s with budget DL50s, my eyes are opened..
I now have SIX DL50s that run perfect..

Hope I am not in trouble now...
Old 12-29-2008, 12:44 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser


ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

No, you simply alluded that your particular engine was one of the better ones. That's the problem.

Many people responding to this type of thread only have experience with one relatively low budget engine (especially here on RCU) and if it ran it must be good. At that they have a very limited amount of time on the engine. Well under 50 hours. They've never taken one apart and didn't know what to look for if they did. So how the heck do they make a determination as to the quality of an engine? Is it based on a few posts made by other people that talked up how many rpm they got with ABC engine and how the "mid range" worked out? Was the peak torque found at an rpm level that was easily attained? What prop was used for determinations and why? Was that actually a "performance" prop or one that spun a lot of rpm without doing any work? How long did it take for the rings to seat and what was the condition of the cylinder and ring(s) after it did so? How have the bearings held up? How well is the crank made? How straight? Does the engine have roller bearings at all rotation points? What type of bearings? Can you obtain parts easily? Is repair service readily available? How well is warranty work handled? How many hours wil the engine last? Less than 300 and it's not worth having, and at that low a number it better have been real cheap and required no additional work in the time period.

So how does one decide what is or isn't a good engine?

I have experience with most all of them and the few that I have not "handled" can be counted on one hand while missing some fingers. Every engine that was noted would suit his purposes, especially since the notation that little additional expense was desired. If he desired long term durability then he needs to look at engines that have a proven long term life cycle. They cost more, btw. Only RCS on his list has been around for any length of time, while all the rest have hit the market in the last year and a half or less. Even with that the RCS 50 is a relatively new release.

If you want power and quality you will pay for it. It's that simple and it's been well proven over the past 10-15 years. Your other option is to go for what you can afford now and hope for the best. I have no problem buying "budget" engines but I can afford to replace them as needed, and frequently, if and when they fail. Can you do the same or will you be stuck at the hanger if and when an engines dies? The answer to that question will determine the quality level you should be willling to pay the first time. If you can't afford to replace or wait forever for parts and service, you better look to the good stuff the first time.

So again, any of the engines noted in the first thread will work just fine and for the most part should be considered about equal. From there the difference in general performance will be up to the user in how they tune, prop, and care for them. In the meantime let the debate begin and forever roll on in the quest for the engine Holy Grail. For me a 50 is a 50. You can make a Brison 3.2 run as good as a DA 50 while you can take a Taurus 3.2 and beat them both.

BTW, some 50's were omitted from the list. I'll presume it was because of a higher price. DA, 3mm, MT, BME, ZDZ, and 3w come to mind. Some great choices in the group previously omitted.
TOM ,Very well put. I recomend every engine buyer to read thid post about 5-10 times or untill it sinks in! Capt,n
Old 12-29-2008, 01:15 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

Unortunately I don't think it will ever sink in. Everyone wants a good engine but, at least in this forum, most want a cheap engine. The auguement then takes off about this or that budget engine and which will perform the best at the least expense. In this case any one of the listed engines will work just fine for a given period of time. How long that will be is not possible to detrmine because there is no timeline data available.

I have Brison, Taurus, DL, RCGF, 3w engines here at the house. I've worked with many, many others at various locations. Bottom line with some of the cheapies is that if they start you'll do fine for awhile. If you want to run them longer you need to pay for a better engine.
Old 12-29-2008, 04:21 PM
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kahn41
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Default RE: Which Gasser

T.O.M I'll be honest I never really looked at it that way as in post #10 Thanks for enlightening me with seeing the whole picture.. But I'm a believer that if you look hard enough you can have the best of both worlds, Meaning a cheaper engine that is a good runner for the duration is possible! I'm not saying the cheapest, but a little less expensive. Thanks for the post so far keep em coming
Greg
Old 12-29-2008, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

Just to narrow the playing field in the price bracket you may be interested in, I would consider the Aerovate/RCGF, the DL, and the XYZ. DL has the longest current type history, mostly good. The Aerovate engines are working out rather well. I have 2 of their 100cc engines and am generally pleased with them. A good friend, Al Lewis, has been testing the XYZ and is happy with it so far.

So price and weight will likely be your final considerations, but parts availability should also factor high. At the moment DL seems to hold the lead in that area.
Old 12-30-2008, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

Hi!
MVVS 45cc (Evolution in the USA).
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:59 PM
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kahn41
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Call me stupid.... The engine, whichever I choose will be going in a Jerry Bates hellcat 82" WS 19 pounds. I'm sure this will help you, help me make a decision!
Old 12-30-2008, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Which Gasser

In that case you want the heaviest one. Better to use a slightly heavier engine than lead. The additional mass of a heavier engine aids in cooling by handling heat better.
Old 12-30-2008, 08:21 PM
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kahn41
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Default RE: Which Gasser

TOM
I am now leaning towards the DL 50 sound to be a good engine. I have been reading the other thread on xyz engines sounds like they have a small issue on the crank shafts being bent. But there new hp 50 sound promising. I just wish I bought a bigger brillelli that is a strong runner not a lick of problems in my corsair.

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