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Saito FG-20 or 21

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Old 03-15-2009, 05:54 PM
  #51
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

ouch!
It's either spark or fuel, and since you primed it and it didn't start, it's not fuel. So, the plug is flooded or it's something else with the spark....

Let us know how Horizon handles it.
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:10 PM
  #52
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

I am having the same exact problems as you are. I am using evolution oil mixed at twenty to one. I can get mine to start with no problems. It has no mid range and it will not completly go to the top. I am about 6 1/2 turns out on the bottom and just a little over one turn on the top. If you adjust it a little either way, it dies and won't run. I bought my engine from a local hobby shop. The needle adjustments were not even close to where they were supposed to be by the manual. I am running a brand new 1500 mah 6 volt battery. The manual says to run a 15X6 prop and I am running a 15X8 prop with no luck.

The thing that I have noticed about the introduction of this engine that is different from the others is that you can not find reviews on it anywhere. Has anyone tested this engine? Is there anyone who has this engine and is not having problems with it? [:@]

If there is anyone from Saito that is monitoring this string, please help us.
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:30 PM
  #53
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Call me a coward but I try never to jump in on a new and relatively untried product especially engines. Did that once many years ago when Royal advertised their pretty .46 glow engine. After running the first tank of fuel the purple cyl. head colour disappeared and then so did the engine's ability to run. Ended up as a rather expensive paper weight. Saito has always offered good engines and it's unfortunate that you are having so much trouble with this new engine. I sure hope Horizon comes good for you one way or the other.
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Old 03-15-2009, 07:06 PM
  #54
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Quote:
ORIGINAL: modelflyer5

I am having the same exact problems as you are. I am using evolution oil mixed at twenty to one. I can get mine to start with no problems. It has no mid range and it will not completly go to the top. I am about 6 1/2 turns out on the bottom and just a little over one turn on the top. If you adjust it a little either way, it dies and won't run. I bought my engine from a local hobby shop. The needle adjustments were not even close to where they were supposed to be by the manual. I am running a brand new 1500 mah 6 volt battery. The manual says to run a 15X6 prop and I am running a 15X8 prop with no luck.

The thing that I have noticed about the introduction of this engine that is different from the others is that you can not find reviews on it anywhere. Has anyone tested this engine? Is there anyone who has this engine and is not having problems with it? [:@]

If there is anyone from Saito that is monitoring this string, please help us.

Call horizon hobby, they have techs on the payroll just to help customers like you.

I am not afraid to call them anytime I have a problem with my JR radio, they are a great help.

productsupport@horizonhobby.com

1-877-504-0233

Mike
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:49 PM
  #55
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Hey Guys,

I converted my FA-125A Saito to gas one year ago.
The oil gas mixture I used is 1:25 (synthetic oil).
It has burned about 20 litres gas now, and there was a lot of carbon in exhaust pipe and outlet valve.
The ignition is a "Runtronic mini" it has a weight of 50g + 1 Lipo cell 800mAh.
The engine mount was a square block of aluminium which I milled down to 58g.
It replaces the rear cover of the crankcase.
Fuel tank is 150ml. All over wheigt of plane is 3.9Kg.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:24 PM
  #56
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

About as nice of a first post as you'll ever see.

Nice, benr1014!
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:30 AM
  #57
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Well guys about all I can say is it seems everyone is having the same problems with this motor. Mine is at Horizon right now and as I said I will keep you all informed when I get it back and what they say. Pretty much it seems that we are going to have to band together to get our money back on this Five hundred dollar plus paper weight. I have come to the reality that if you fly 90 size aircraft you should just stick with YS's or any glow. I have now tried the 20 cc zenoah and 20cc saito and they just dont have the power needed for their weight. If you want to fly gas dont go less than the 50 cc engines. Anything less in my opinion stick with glow. Just my thoughts.
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:42 AM
  #58
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

I agree it is unfortunate.
I've heard a lot of good things about the FG-36, though.

And our new pal benr1014 seems to be doing pretty well with his saito gasser.

Let's see what happens. I remain optimistic for you!
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Old 03-17-2009, 08:16 AM
  #59
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Saillfish

Well guys about all I can say is it seems everyone is having the same problems with this motor. Mine is at Horizon right now and as I said I will keep you all informed when I get it back and what they say. Pretty much it seems that we are going to have to band together to get our money back on this Five hundred dollar plus paper weight. I have come to the reality that if you fly 90 size aircraft you should just stick with YS's or any glow. I have now tried the 20 cc zenoah and 20cc saito and they just dont have the power needed for their weight. If you want to fly gas dont go less than the 50 cc engines. Anything less in my opinion stick with glow. Just my thoughts.
I'm really sorry to hear of the problems you are experiencing with your new engine and do hope that the situation will be resovled in a manner that leaves you fairly satisfied, meaning your money back at the very least.

I beg to disagree with your opinion that gas engines below 50cc or the G20 in particular are not suitable power plants for our models, as there are many of us that have excellent performing models using the G20 and other engines well below 50cc . It is possible that unfortunately you choose a model that was just too much for your G20, as all .90 size models are not created equal, not to mention that flying styles and preferences differ from person to person.

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Old 03-17-2009, 08:57 AM
  #60
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

My FG20 is now on its way back to Horizon. On the phone, support just tried to say I had the needle settings wrong, I am not too hopeful.
I agree on there being many good gas motors under 50cc. I had the G20 in a Great Planes RV-4 and it was a perfect combination. I have a Brison 40cc in a Giant Super Sport that flies just perfect for my style. I also have a Carden Yak with a DA-50 and a Comp Arf Extra 330 with a DA-100, so there are all kinds of planes for all sizes of motors. I would not be too quick to generalize. I really hope Saito can square away my FG20 because that will open up a whole new range of planes to fly gas.

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Old 03-17-2009, 09:57 AM
  #61
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

I am still hoping that this is an issue that can be resolved. I want to put this into a 60 size warbird that will not be doing 3-D. I bought this engine so that I can get away from glow fuel. I have changed the battery to a2700 mah nmh battery and I am still trying to see if it needs to break in. It is starting easier and is running a little better. Horizon has posted new needle setttings that only change the bottom settiing. They want it to be changed to 4 1/2 turns from the adjusment screw being flush with the outter part of the hole screwed in. I think that ends up being around 6-7 turns out. I took it to my flying field yesterday, everyone seems to think that it just needs to be broke in more. I don't know. I think that Horizon or Saito should show us some test engines and tell us what they went through to make these run.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:14 AM
  #62
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Quote:
ORIGINAL: R/C Foolish

My FG20 is now on its way back to Horizon. On the phone, support just tried to say I had the needle settings wrong, I am not too hopeful.
I agree on there being many good gas motors under 50cc. I had the G20 in a Great Planes RV-4 and it was a perfect combination. I have a Brison 40cc in a Giant Super Sport that flies just perfect for my style. I also have a Carden Yak with a DA-50 and a Comp Arf Extra 330 with a DA-100, so there are all kinds of planes for all sizes of motors. I would not be too quick to generalize. I really hope Saito can square away my FG20 because that will open up a whole new range of planes to fly gas.

R/C Foolish
I agree with you on gas when you say it like that. I believe my style of flying does not go with these small gas motors. I can see them working very well in sport planes of many types. Just not 3D type aircraft. Just my opionion. But lets not keep off the subject of this post.
It seems another FG-20 owner Rcdude7 is sending his back to horizon now for pretty much the same reason. I am starting to feel the purpose made saito gas carb is not so good. Benr1014 sure built a nice setup. Maybe we should be sending them to him to Mod. and fix. Those Germans sure can build some nice stuff.
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:14 PM
  #63
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Thank you for your compliment Sailfish,

now the engine is running fine, but it was a bit tricky to find a suitable carburetor.
the first carb I used was a Walbro WA80-1.
With this carb the engine was running fine at full throttle and idle, midrange and acceleration was very poor.

Now I have a new carb with integrated acceleration pump system.
With this carb you can run the engine several minutes at idle and then flick the throttle stick to full open without any problem.

Another problem was the spark plug, it was a BRISK ZKM1-4, this one is no good.
The name of the new one can I tell you tomorrow.

I'm cleaning my plane only when it is black from the died mosquitoes and not because of oil pollution.


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Old 03-17-2009, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

I have also talked to Horizon and I will be sending my engine back to them tomorrow. I hope that they can figure it out. This engine will go nicely into a Mustang that I have spent a lot of time on. I hope that you guys will be able to tell me what to expect from Horizon.[&o]
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:16 PM
  #65
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Horizon has a very good reputation for standing by their products and taking care of their customers, hopefully it will be the same this time around .

Karol
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:02 PM
  #66
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Quote:
ORIGINAL: benr1014

Hey Guys,

I converted my FA-125A Saito to gas one year ago.
The oil gas mixture I used is 1:25 (synthetic oil).
It has burned about 20 litres gas now, and there was a lot of carbon in exhaust pipe and outlet valve.
The ignition is a "Runtronic mini" it has a weight of 50g + 1 Lipo cell 800mAh.
The engine mount was a square block of aluminium which I milled down to 58g.
It replaces the rear cover of the crankcase.
Fuel tank is 150ml. All over wheigt of plane is 3.9Kg.
Hey benr1014,
Congrats on your conversion! Hopefully Saito will get theirs worked out too! I know there's a lot of us scale flyers that would love to see this happen.
I, and others too I'm sure, would like to know more about your experience with your Saito 125 conversion to gas.
Would you mind answering a few questions for us?
Did you break your engine in on the synthetic oil, and at the same 1:25 ratio?
How have you dealt with the carbon build up? Would a product like Sea Foam help in keeping down the carbon build-up?
Are the parts to your conversion readily available, so that we could try your conversion on other engines? What kind of cost are we talking about?
And lastly, that's a very cool engine mount you fabricated, would you be interested in making a couple for me?
Thanks, J.
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Old 03-17-2009, 08:12 PM
  #67
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21


Quote:
ORIGINAL: benr1014

Hey Guys,

I converted my FA-125A Saito to gas one year ago.
The oil gas mixture I used is 1:25 (synthetic oil).
It has burned about 20 litres gas now, and there was a lot of carbon in exhaust pipe and outlet valve.
The ignition is a "Runtronic mini" it has a weight of 50g + 1 Lipo cell 800mAh.
The engine mount was a square block of aluminium which I milled down to 58g.
It replaces the rear cover of the crankcase.
Fuel tank is 150ml. All over wheigt of plane is 3.9Kg.

I was going to start up my FG 20 this past weekend but did not have everything ready and I am kind of delaying after reading about so much trouble people are having. It seems people are happy with the FG 36 which has the Walbro carb on it instead of the two needle Saito gas carb. So benr1014 I would be interested to know also what carb you ended up with and if it was much trouble attaching it to the FA 125? Great job on the engine mount by the way.
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:31 PM
  #68
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Well I just got off the phone with Horizon about my FG-20 they have right now. I told them in detail the problems we are all having with this engine at mid range and all. I was chatting with a supervisior and tomorrow when he calls me back I will get his name so I can post it on here so when you all call in we can chat with the same person everytime. I will post a update when I get one.
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:40 PM
  #69
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Mine was recieved by Horizon today, so I think that makes 3 or 4 FG20's they have in for the same problem. I bet they will say they are not having any other problems with these motors.

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Old 03-18-2009, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: R/C Foolish

Mine was recieved by Horizon today, so I think that makes 3 or 4 FG20's they have in for the same problem. I bet they will say they are not having any other problems with these motors.

R/C Foolish
I dont know if they will be able to say there are no problems. I have heard no one yet jump in on this post and say theirs is running fine. if you never pull the throttle to mid range the engine would be fine. No problem with idle or full power. It might be great in a RC top fuel drag racer
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Old 03-18-2009, 03:53 PM
  #71
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

On the FA-125, I usually take off and fly WOT until it's time to land. So, for me, I might not find too much difficulty with this engine, but I can certainly see where it's unacceptable for most folks.
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Old 03-18-2009, 04:47 PM
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

You know that is one of the functions of the left stick, why not just buy a control line motor if you are not going to manage your throttle.....

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Old 03-19-2009, 04:23 PM
  #73
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jai Williams

Hey benr1014,
Congrats on your conversion! Hopefully Saito will get theirs worked out too! I know there's a lot of us scale flyers that would love to see this happen.
I, and others too I'm sure, would like to know more about your experience with your Saito 125 conversion to gas.
Would you mind answering a few questions for us?
Did you break your engine in on the synthetic oil, and at the same 1:25 ratio?
How have you dealt with the carbon build up? Would a product like Sea Foam help in keeping down the carbon build-up?
Are the parts to your conversion readily available, so that we could try your conversion on other engines? What kind of cost are we talking about?
And lastly, that's a very cool engine mount you fabricated, would you be interested in making a couple for me?
Thanks, J.
OK for your first Question: This engine was first in Great Planes "Gee Bee" and it was running with glow fuel.
The plane was flying realy great but landing was always horrible now it is with a damaged wing and without engine.
I made the gas conversion when I bought the 69"QQ Yak, the engine was already broke in.

For your second Question: By the end of 2008 I opend the engine for inspecting carbon on outlet valve.
There was al lot of carbon, but it was not stucking in the head. Nevertheless I took it out of the head and removed carbon with sand paper.

The oil I used is "Mobil Racing 2T Fully Synthetic 2 Stroke Engine Oil"

The carburetor I found in Friedrichshafen on hobby fair it was used and cost me 5€.
Ther are some numbers on it: WT 251 623B

For your last question: The engine mount it is a lot work to do, and I'm busy with an selfmade 80ccm 4-Stroke twin.
I can send you the CAD models in native "Solid Edge V16" or parasolid file or step file.
On one of the pictures you can see the cylinder heads of 80ccm FS-engine.


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Old 03-19-2009, 04:55 PM
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

.. by the way,
the Walbro has a diameter of 11mm, Venturi size is 9mm.
Important thing is that it has acceleration system.
Look at the picture
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Old 03-19-2009, 05:59 PM
  #75
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Default RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

I bought one of these and put it in a Gee Bee R3 and will be test flying the airplane tomorrow .
I did have the same problems you guys are having and played with it about an hour then came in
and went right for my computer . Found this thread and read about the 4 1/2 turns on the low speed
needle which is also listed under support right below the engine manual on the product page .
Having enough light left I went back out and set the low speed and then the high speed and the
problem seems to be solved . I will post again after the test flight .

My experience with gas engines has told me that you always get the low speed needle right first
and then set the high speed . The instructions for this engine say the opposite . I paid very close
attention to getting the low speed exactly flush with the throttle linkage and then set the low speed
in 4 1/2 turns started the engine and then set the high speed . Runs great so far .Hope others find
this to be true .
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