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  1. #1576

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    Hi
    can you tell me wich carb can I use valbro and zama types how much rpm you would lose.
    thanks
    john

  2. #1577

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    Iv been running my fg20 for about 6 months until the con rod became fused to the crank shaft pin and locked the engine up. I ordered a new con rod and noticed that it has been modified , Im told its the same as the new FG21 .It appears that this has been a common problem.
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  3. #1578

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    I’m beginning to think I have a Friday or Monday assembled engine. Since Horizon Hobby sent me a replacement carburetor for the FG20, it has run very well, smooth, loads of power and sounded great until yesterday.

    I started the engine; let it fast idle for 40 to 50 seconds to allow warm up. I then advanced the throttle to check the maximum 8600rpm before I launched the Spitfire. At ½ throttle, the engine abruptly stopped, I went to do a restart and found that the prop/crankshaft would not turn, the engine is completely seized.

    The engine only has 2hrs 20 minutes of total run time, it has not been run lean. The low speed needle is set at 4 turns 10 minutes from flush with the throttle arm. The high speed needle is set at approximately 1 turn 25 minutes from closed and the engine had a slight burble at full throttle which indicates slightly rich.

    I am just glad the engine seized on the ground and not during thetake off and climb out of the Spitfire. I’ll send the FG20 back to HH for warranty work, hopefully they will let me know what actually failed and caused the engine to seize.

    Roger


  4. #1579

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    My fg20 did the same thing , I bought a new con rod and a drive shaft , the con rod has been re designed , it has fewer oil ways and a slightly different flange . It's seems its modification is an improvement as I've ran mine since without any problems so far. If I have anymore problems with this engine , I will sell it on . I've had a few saito engines (all glow) and really like them , very easy to work on and very reliable, it's a shame that the fg20 has so many faults. Lets hope that these problems are finally resolved .

  5. #1580

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21


    ORIGINAL: Biggles2

    My fg20 did the same thing , I bought a new con rod and a drive shaft , the con rod has been re designed , it has fewer oil ways and a slightly different flange . It's seems its modification is an improvement as I've ran mine since without any problems so far. If I have anymore problems with this engine , I will sell it on . I've had a few saito engines (all glow) and really like them , very easy to work on and very reliable, it's a shame that the fg20 has so many faults. Lets hope that these problems are finally resolved .

    This is very discouraging reading all these negative comments on the FG20CC, reason being i have this engine NIB that i purchased in 2011 at the Toledo show. I fired up an email to Horizon to-day to ask them if i can replace the EI with the one the FG21CC has and also change the carb to the one on the FG21. I'm hoping that they'll reply to my email, but i'm sure the response will be a few days. I've 6 Saito glow engines and the only time i had trouble with a new SAITO 125 seizing up on, and it was running rich in this case. It was sent back to Horizon and guess what they reported that they replaced the con rod. I have since put in more than a 1/2 gallon of fuel 20/20 Wildcat to further break in this engine. I followed all the instructions on the manual, not to run it more than 4000rpm for the first 10 mins., which i ran it for more than 30 mins @ 4000rpms. It is running quite nicely now and installed on a TF Hawker Sea Fury (kit).
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  6. #1581
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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    I have five Saito 125's and have never had any problem with them. A couple of them have several gallons of fuel through them.

    I also have two FG-20's and one of them has a few gallons through it.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  7. #1582
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    I have worked on a couple newer Saito's with seized connecting rods. In both cases I managed to free up the conrod and also to save the old conrod and return the engines to service..
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
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    Original AMA #31261

  8. #1583

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    Hello guys,

    It is anyone willing to send me a Saito FG21, I want to see what I can do as far as ignition replacement and maybe carb.
    If I am not mistaken ...I think that FG20 and 21 use the same part number for carb.

    Thanks
    Adrian
    www.ch-ignitions.com

  9. #1584

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21


    ORIGINAL: CH Ignitions

    Hello guys,

    It is anyone willing to send me a Saito FG21, I want to see what I can do as far as ignition replacement and maybe carb.
    If I am not mistaken ...I think that FG20 and 21 use the same part number for carb.

    Thanks
    Adrian

    I will find out if carb/ei are the same for both FG20 and FG21 when i receive a reply to my email from Horizon Hobby.
    WACO Brotherhood # 87
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  10. #1585

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21


    ORIGINAL: w8ye

    I have worked on a couple newer Saito's with seized connecting rods. In both cases I managed to free up the conrod and also to save the old conrod and return the engines to service..

    When it is still under a warranty i don't touch it but return it to Horizon. Here's a description of their report.

    "Upon inspection , it was found that the connecting rod was seized to the crankpin on the crankshaft. The rear bearing was found to be turning rough. Parts were replaced and the engine was tested. The engine ran great. It had an idle at 2000rpms and a top-end at 8800rpms, using a 16x6 prop "
    WACO Brotherhood # 87
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  11. #1586
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    The ones I worked on were new engines. The rear bearings were not bad.

    It is cheaper and faster to fix them youself than it is to mess around with Horizon and the shipping back and forth.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
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    Original AMA #31261

  12. #1587

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    The lubrication on four strokes model engines is poor. Worse in gas powered engines.
    But every four stroke engine has a crankcase vent.
    On glow engines we use it to inject after run oil after every flying day.
    I keep this practice with my Saito FG-14. This time not to avoid corrosion, but to assure that in the beginning of the day I have a well lubricated engine.
    I intend to do the same with my recently acquired FG-21, hopping to avoid the reported problems with the conrod/crackshaft bearing.


  13. #1588

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21



    After 4 weeks I was ready to contact HH to find out why it was taking so long to repair and send backmy FG-20. Before I made the phone call I decided to fire up the barbeque on the back sun deck. To my surprise, there on the rear deck was a box from HHwith my FG-20 inside. According to my neighbour, the UPSdelivery personplaced it there 6 days before. The UPS delivery person didn't leave a note or voice mail to indicate thatit had been delivered. Thank goodness it didn't rain for the past 6 days.

    I got to work and mounted it in the Spitfire and fired it up, let it run below 4000rpm for 20 minutes and then set the high speed needle and adjusted the low speed needle, rechecked the HS RPM's and now it's ready for the maiden flight. According to the invoice,the technicianreplaced the connecting rod and carburetor. Hopefully my troubles with the FG-20 have ended.

    Roger


  14. #1589

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21


    ORIGINAL: ForcesR



    After 4 weeks I was ready to contact HH to find out why it was taking so long to repair and send backΒ*my FG-20. Before I made the phone call I decided to fire up the barbeque on the back sun deck. To my surprise, there on the rear deck was a box from HHΒ*with my FG-20 inside. According to my neighbour, the UPSΒ*delivery personΒ*placed it there 6 days before. The UPS delivery person didn't leave a note or voice mail to indicate thatΒ*it had been delivered. Thank goodness it didn't rain for the past 6 days.

    I got to work and mounted it in the Spitfire and fired it up, let it run below 4000rpm for 20 minutes and then set the high speed needle and adjusted the low speed needle, rechecked the HS RPM's and now it's ready for the maiden flight. According to the invoice,Β*the technicianΒ*replaced the connecting rod and carburetor. Hopefully my troubles with the FG-20 have ended.

    Roger


    Good luck and let us know how it's performing. Mine it's still Nib (FG20CC) and no fuel went through it yet. Horizon informed me that the carb. on the new FG21 CC is the same as the one on the FG20CC, the only thing that is different on the new FG21CC is the electronic ignition. Is your FG20 has the original electronic ignition ?
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  15. #1590

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    Engine still dies(in air) when advancing from idle up, after flying for a while. Still too lean on low end?

  16. #1591

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    I would try to richen the low end, perhaps try half a turn or more. I trhink these engines generally run best richer on the low end. They are less likely to dead stick and you can get a few more clicks leaner on the top end.

  17. #1592
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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    Sure, open the bottom end up a tad and see if it quits dead sticking. You don't want to be overly rich though or it will vibrate and shake a lot more as well as get lousy fuel ecomomy. Does it hesitate and want to die when it is idling and you stab the thtottle quickly? That is the other indication it is too lean on the bottom. If it's too lean on the top end that can cause excessive heat and dead sticks as well which is not good at all. When you get the hang of this, it will be right on the money on the bottom end and just barely rich on the top end.

  18. #1593

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    G'day Garthwood,
    I think maybe HH has it wrong, If both carbys are the same on the FG20 & FG21, why does Saito supply a new carby for the older FG20.
    The carbys are different, & Saito changed a few things inside as well.
    I love my FG21.

    Cheers
    Good Flyin Mate. Keep Thyne Airspeed up, lest the ground arise & smite thee,
    Allan.

  19. #1594
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    The FG-21 has bronze valve seats and a different connecting rod as well as RCEXL ignition.

    The carb was changed before the FG-21 came out.

    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
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  20. #1595

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21


    ORIGINAL: alan0899

    G'day Garthwood,
    I think maybe HH has it wrong, If both carbys are the same on the FG20 & FG21, why does Saito supply a new carby for the older FG20.
    The carbys are different, & Saito changed a few things inside as well.
    I love my FG21.

    Cheers
    G'day to you too mate ! I'm going to call HH in the next few days and get to the bottom of this. I bought the FG20 in 2011 at the Toledo show, but not sure if the carb is the newer version.

    My question is; Is it possible to install in the FG20 the carb and the newer Electronic ignition of the FG21 ?

    HH never answered all my questions so i need to give them a buzz.

    Cheers
    WACO Brotherhood # 87
    Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood # 61
    SAITO MEMBER # 406

  21. #1596

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    G'day Mate,
    YES, the FG21 carby is a direct replacement for the carby on the FG20.
    Saito found a few problems with the throttle rotor hole size in the FG20 carby, so they supplied new carby's to fix the tuning problems.
    They also made a few changes inside the engine & released it as the FG21, & put a new RCEXL Ignition module, with a much smaller sensor.
    The new ignition is not required to get the engine running sweetly, it's just that the new sensor is much smaller.

    Cheers
    Good Flyin Mate. Keep Thyne Airspeed up, lest the ground arise & smite thee,
    Allan.

  22. #1597
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21


    ORIGINAL: Garthwood


    ORIGINAL: alan0899

    G'day Garthwood,
    I think maybe HH has it wrong, If both carbys are the same on the FG20 & FG21, why does Saito supply a new carby for the older FG20.
    The carbys are different, & Saito changed a few things inside as well.
    I love my FG21.

    Cheers
    G'day to you too mate ! I'm going to call HH in the next few days and get to the bottom of this. I bought the FG20 in 2011 at the Toledo show, but not sure if the carb is the newer version.

    My question is; Is it possible to install in the FG20 the carb and the newer Electronic ignition of the FG21 ?

    HH never answered all my questions so i need to give them a buzz.

    Cheers
    Your carb should already be the new one

    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  23. #1598

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    Thank you Allan and W8YE.

    Charles.
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  24. #1599

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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    Does anyone on this post have any significant time on the FG-21, in the air?

    I've been running the FG-20 since it came out in 2009. My big problems were the ignition system and burning out exhaust valve seats. Thanks to Horizon for always coming through and fixing the problems for me (even though it costs me $12 to ship it back each time)

    Anyways I have a new FG-21 to try now, haven't mounted it yet. I'm wondering if I should just bail at this point, or if I should give it a shot. I could sell the engine and buy a DLE-20 and probably just fly all Summer long without issues.

    Should I give the FG-21 a shot, hoping that the new pressed in valve seats, redesigned conrod, ignition system and carb will make this a solid engine?


  25. #1600
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Saito FG-20 or 21

    You need to give it a workout so you can tell us how it compares with the FG-20? There's no better qualified person to do this.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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