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  1. #5501

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    QUESTION

    I have an airplane motor (zenoah g26 EI) with a walboro wt-644 carb, it has a choke and a primer bulb, can an airplane engine be flown with a primer bulb?
    Why doe syssa remove the primer bulb on its carbs?

  2. #5502
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    It does not need the primer bulb. Just use the choke, if necessary. Pull choke, rock prop several times and it will start and run. Most primer bulbs only get the carb wet with fuel. They still have a choke that has to be used in some cases.
    John
    AMA 615755

  3. #5503
    Joystick TX's Avatar
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: hobby_man

    QUESTION

    I have an airplane motor (zenoah g26 EI) with a walboro wt-644 carb, it has a choke and a primer bulb, can an airplane engine be flown with a primer bulb?
    Why doe syssa remove the primer bulb on its carbs?
    The primer bulb would be hard to get to on a model plane with a cowl. A large finger hole would need to be cut to gain access and most people would'nt like that.
    Steve
    Check Six!

    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  4. #5504
    TexasSkyPilot's Avatar
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    I would liken the Syssa carb to the carbs from some of the better chain saws, which have no bulbs for priming. It might even be one of the carbs used for that.

    Since these carbs work with the engine to pump the fuel, using a primer device like a bulb isn't necessary. As John mentioned above, simply rocking the prop back and forth on the Syssa achieves the same thing. In fact, when I turn on my choke and rock the prop, I can soon hear the sound change as the carb and cylinder get wet with fuel.

    Good thing they start so easily, too. I tend to start mine with a starter on the first start of the day, but the other day at the field, the guys got their hands on my starter and were trying to start a stubborn glow motor. When I went to fly, it was so run down it wouldn't turn the Syssa over. So, I turned on the choke, rocked the prop until it started sounding gurgly (that's my best description of the sound), and then flipped on the switch. I gave the prop a couple of flips, and she fired. Turned the choke off again, and flipped the prop a few more times, and she was running.

    Love that Syssa!

    ~ Jim ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  5. #5505

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: Joystick TX


    ORIGINAL: hobby_man

    QUESTION

    I have an airplane motor (zenoah g26 EI) with a walboro wt-644 carb, it has a choke and a primer bulb, can an airplane engine be flown with a primer bulb?
    Why doe syssa remove the primer bulb on its carbs?
    The primer bulb would be hard to get to on a model plane with a cowl. A large finger hole would need to be cut to gain access and most people would'nt like that.
    are you saying I can use it?
    this is the carb, it apperas to be a pump carb
    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXYTD4&P=7
    I can get at the bulb, I cant get at the choke lever without adding a linkage or a servo

  6. #5506
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    I have a friend with a big Cub. His carb crapped out on him, and he went out back to his shed, and found an old weed whip with a carb that worked. It had the bulb too.

    So, it'll work just fine, if you don't mind pumping the bulb. Some of the early gassers had them when they came out, and a lot of conversions have them, of course. I haven't had a Zenoah G-26 EI, so for all I know it might be standard equipment on them.

    Those bulbs crack and leak at times, especially as they get some age to them. The bulbs are simple one-way pumps, so I think that you could ignore them, as long as you are willing to choke and pump it by way of turning or rocking the prop.

    Can you get at the venturi (the open mouth) of the carb? You can put your hand over it, or use something to stop it up and create a choke effect. Joystick once had a setup that moved forward from the firewall, and just sealed the mouth and choked it. Very imaginative.

    ~ Jim ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  7. #5507
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: hobby_man


    ORIGINAL: Joystick TX


    ORIGINAL: hobby_man

    QUESTION

    I have an airplane motor (zenoah g26 EI) with a walboro wt-644 carb, it has a choke and a primer bulb, can an airplane engine be flown with a primer bulb?
    Why doe syssa remove the primer bulb on its carbs?
    The primer bulb would be hard to get to on a model plane with a cowl. A large finger hole would need to be cut to gain access and most people would'nt like that.
    are you saying I can use it?
    this is the carb, it apperas to be a pump carb
    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXYTD4&P=7
    I can get at the bulb, I cant get at the choke lever without adding a linkage or a servo
    If you use a carb other than the 813, you won't have the accelerator pump which will cause your Syssa to not be as responsive to the throttle. Also, with a fuel bulb you would need to run a fuel return line back to the fuel tank. More parts and connections = decreased reliablility and more problems. I would stick with the original carb that comes with the engine. Rigging a choke or using your fingerwould not seem to be that big of a problem, especially if you have access to the carb.
    Steve
    Check Six!

    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  8. #5508
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    I'm sorry, I thought the question was being asked about some OTHER gas engine. I guess I missed that it was being asked about the Syssa.

    I can't imagine why you'd want to do that. The carbs that come with them are awesome. I guess I'll read back and see what brought this on.

    ~ Jim ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  9. #5509
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    I may be wrong, but this is the Syssa forum, and the question was why the Syssa does not have a fuel bulb. Seems like there was an attempt to add one by changing the carb. I know others have changed the carb to get "better" performance.I don't thinkthey were successful. There has been no big push to change carbs, so I don't think they were.
    Steve
    Check Six!

    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  10. #5510

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Just tossing this out here?
    There was another conversation not too long ago about the relative merits of a primer bulb. Turns out there's some pretty good reasons why you might want to run one? You can see them listed in the rookie sticky at the top of the engine forum, last post (page 2).

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_86...m.htm#10327290

    While not so stoked on the plan I'm going try a conversion right away, I do agree on it's merit.

    With the Syssa engine/carb being so different, it may take some serious messing around to come up with something that might give similar performance? If I were to attempt a primer bulb conversion, thinking it would be on an engine using a more conventional carb.
    FWIW, -Al

  11. #5511
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    The WT-813-1 from other sources than Syssa typically has a primer bulb assembly mounted on the metering valve side of the carb.

    http://www.davesmotors.com/s.nl/c.88...t.A/id.4103/.f
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  12. #5512
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Since priming and starting my Syssas is such a breeze, I guess I can't imagine wanting to change the formula.

    Here are my thoughts on this:

    If somebody is considering changing it, my big question is. . . why? It's made to work beautifully from the factory. When somebody calls most gas engines 'stock,' that's just what they are, a basic stock engine from the factory that certainly could be modified to some benefit. But a Syssa engine comes from the factory as a custom, highly engineered, finely tuned thoroughbred.

    If it's NOT working well, that should be addressed long before considering modifying the engine. There is more than likely an underlying problem that's being skipped over in the rush to modify the engine. If it won't prime, then there's a good chance of an air leak in the system, and it's pulling air and not fuel. As we've seen here over the past couple of weeks, if the mixture screws are nowhere near where they belong, then something is very likely amiss in the fuel system, and air might be getting in.

    Hopefully there's something here that will help.

    ~ Jim ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  13. #5513

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: Joystick TX

    I may be wrong, but this is the Syssa forum, and the question was why the Syssa does not have a fuel bulb. Seems like there was an attempt to add one by changing the carb. I know others have changed the carb to get ''better'' performance.Β*I don't thinkΒ*they were successful. There has been no big push to change carbs, so I don't think they were.
    When you buy a wt-813 from syssa, syssa takes the bulb off. I was reading a walbro manual and from what I read there is an advantage to leaving the bulb on the carb.

  14. #5514
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    I think I have finally solved one of my problems of the SYSSA engine not choking or drawing fuel. Have had to use an electric starter for some time now. I removed the engine and found that the choke plate had been bent. I probably did that when I originally installed the engine. However, after removeing the choke plate and getting it streight, re-installed it and moved the plate to the choke position and it fully closed. Also noticed that the hook on the choke plate was hanging on the back side of the fire wall. So, I closed it a little so it will clear everything. Remounted the engine, pulled the choke and could see fuel being pulled to the carb when rocking the prop. On the RPM drop issue, I leaned the HS needle about a blade width. This seems to have stopped the hanging of the idle when lowering the throttle. I am happier now.
    John
    AMA 615755

  15. #5515
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Those two posts pretty well cover each other!

    ~ Jim ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  16. #5516
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Here's a question for you Stssa 30cc users out there.

    I am awaiting one of Todd's Voltage Regulator and Opto Isolated Ignition Kill Switch units today.  I would like to use 2 battery packs, each one a 2 cell A123 2300 maH version.  I will use 2 switches, one fron each battery and ultimately hook up each switch to a separate jack on my receiver.

    Why 2 batteries?  Two reasons.  1- safety factor  2- I need a bit more nose weight.

    Anyway, what would be the problem hooking up one battery through one switch and into the receiver and then hooking up the other battery through the other switch then to the regulator board (used for ignition only) with its receiver output going to the receiver as a second battery input.

    OK, have at it.  I can take it.....

    Dick Pettit
    WACO Brotherhood #168
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    If You Can Not Stand Behind Our Troops, please Feel Free To Stand In Front Of Them!!!!!

  17. #5517
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    If I understand what you're proposing, Dick, the second battery, after its switch but pre-regulator, would send the still-unregulated (full) supplemental voltage to the receiver. Tapping that voltage, the voltage regulator would send regulated voltage out to the ignition module. Is that right? If it is, then it sounds just fine to me.

    Does your voltage regulator have a tap for accessing the pre-regulated voltage for the RX, or are you just using a "Y" between the switch and the Rx? (Just curious).

    ~ Jim ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  18. #5518
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: hobby_man


    ORIGINAL: Joystick TX

    I may be wrong, but this is the Syssa forum, and the question was why the Syssa does not have a fuel bulb. Seems like there was an attempt to add one by changing the carb. I know others have changed the carb to get ''better'' performance.I don't thinkthey were successful. There has been no big push to change carbs, so I don't think they were.
    When you buy a wt-813 from syssa, syssa takes the bulb off. I was reading a walbro manual and from what I read there is an advantage to leaving the bulb on the carb.
    IMO all of the "advantages" to having the primer bulb on the carb are totally outweighed by the "disadvantages" of more parts, more fuel connections, etc. which is justmore stuff and places for thingsto go wrong. If you follow this, or any other gas engine forum, you willsee a ton of problems dueto leaks in the fuel system.Adding anything to it is just asking for trouble.

    Most of the reasons for the use of the fuel bulb are to fix problems that should not exist if proper care and feeding of the engine and fuel system is taken.

    I also believe that he golden rule of aviation engineering is "the best part is no part." There are some exceptions to that of course, for example: redundancy, but that also comes at a cost and needs to be well thought out. There is always the "law of diminishing returns" to consider.
    Steve
    Check Six!

    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  19. #5519
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    This is one of the Syssa Ignition Regulators with a non-regulated output to the receiver. It also has an opto coupled kill switch that a receiver channel can be used to control the ignition box.

    It's designed so you can use only one battery to power receiver and ignition, but the ignition output is regulated at something like 5.2 volts. Ibelieve the receiver is straight through from the battery.

    That should not cause a problem. The receiver output merely turns a circuit on the regulator board on and off and that is then opto coupled to control the 5.2 volts that goes to the ignition box.

    Has anyone used one of these this way?


    Dick Pettit
    WACO Brotherhood #168
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    If You Can Not Stand Behind Our Troops, please Feel Free To Stand In Front Of Them!!!!!

  20. #5520
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: pettit

    This is one of the Syssa Ignition Regulators with a non-regulated output to the receiver. It also has an opto coupled kill switch that a receiver channel can be used to control the ignition box.

    It's designed so you can use only one battery to power receiver and ignition, but the ignition output is regulated at something like 5.2 volts. Ibelieve the receiver is straight through from the battery.

    That should not cause a problem. The receiver output merely turns a circuit on the regulator board on and off and that is then opto coupled to control the 5.2 volts that goes to the ignition box.

    Has anyone used one of these this way?
    I have been using an IBEC from Syssa for almost two years. I love it.

    I use two batteries, two switches,andthey plug into the receiver using separate jacks. The IBEC is plugged into a Channel 5 so I have an ignitionON/OFF switch on the transmitter.
    Steve
    Check Six!

    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  21. #5521
    pettit's Avatar
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    That's exactly how I want to use it.

    I take it that the IBEChas the following:

    One battery input (from a battery through a switch)
    One regulated output (5 volts or so) to the ignition box, that will be controlled by the transmitter
    One battery output (unregulated, just battery voltage) that goes to an unused channel on the receiver
    One reciever input (like from channel 5) to turn ignition on and off from transnitter

    I want to use a second battery and switch, just like Joystick.

    Sounds like we're singing from the same page, right?

    BTW, it didn't show in today's mail. Hopefully tomorrow


    Dick Pettit
    WACO Brotherhood #168
    Balsa USA Brotherhood #41

    If You Can Not Stand Behind Our Troops, please Feel Free To Stand In Front Of Them!!!!!

  22. #5522
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    It does sound right. Hope you get it tomorrow!

    ~ Jim ~[8D]
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  23. #5523

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: pettit

    That's exactly how I want to use it.Β*

    I take it that the IBECΒ*has the following:

    One battery input (from a battery through a switch)
    One regulated output (5 volts or so) to the ignition box, that will be controlled by the transmitter
    One battery output (unregulated, just battery voltage) that goes to an unused channel on the receiver
    One reciever input (like from channel 5) to turn ignition on and off from transnitter

    I want to use a second battery and switch, just like Joystick.

    Sounds like we're singing from the same page, right?

    BTW, it didn't show in today's mail.Β* Hopefully tomorrow


    Your IBEC leads are as follows:

    Power in (from wherever, it doesn't care)
    Control (ign power, on/off, I use my LG channel)
    Regulated power to ign.
    LED

    That's it, there are no more?

    It is not designed to power the receiver?

    2 batteries, power going through 2 switches. If you have room on the receiver, power from switches go there. If not, one switch leads there, the other switch to a Y in the rudder servo. That'll do the same thing plugging both into the receiver will do, with the bonus being the rudder servo has a straight shot to a battery, bypassing the reciever buss.

    Power for (to) the IBEC can come from the receiver (that would be it's second connection, in addition to the control connection).
    An option might be a Y harness located anywhere.

    Hope this helps?
    -Al



  24. #5524

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: pettit

    That's exactly how I want to use it.

    I take it that the IBEChas the following:

    One battery input (from a battery through a switch)
    One regulated output (5 volts or so) to the ignition box, that will be controlled by the transmitter
    One battery output (unregulated, just battery voltage) that goes to an unused channel on the receiver
    One reciever input (like from channel 5) to turn ignition on and off from transnitter

    I want to use a second battery and switch, just like Joystick.

    Sounds like we're singing from the same page, right?

    BTW, it didn't show in today's mail. Hopefully tomorrow


    The Ultra IBEC has two connections. One goes to an auxiliary channel on the receiver, where it taps into the receiver foritson/off control signal andas its power supply to deliver to the CDI unit. The other connection is the filtered power output lead to the CDI. There is no provision nor is there any need for a separate ignition battery. If you want dual battery supplies to the receiver, there are various ways to do that, and whatever you choose (dual unregulated LiFe packs, dual regulated LiPo's etc), the IBEC won't care. It's just hanging on the receiver bus, much as if it were just another servo, waiting for power and a signal to tell it what to do.
    Ed Alt
    Tech-Aero Designs LLC

  25. #5525

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Ed, others,
    Many apologies, I was stuck, thinking Rcexl. With the IBEC there would be no point having 2 leads plugged in to the battery bus. My bad. -Al


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