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  1. #5626
    opjose's Avatar
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    I've never heard of the beam mount version of this engine.

    Does anyone else own one or has anyone else ever seen one?

    Please post if you have.

    I'm curious as to how unique this beam mount engine is.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  2. #5627
    TexasSkyPilot's Avatar
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    I appreciate everything Red Raider said.

    When somebody comes in here, we all try to help. Those issues are typically "It won't start," or "It won't run right," or "It runs too hot," that sort of thing.

    If they come in here saying that they can't figure out how to get their wife to let them fly every Saturday, I'm married, so I can offer advice. It might get them in trouble, but at least I'm speaking from a position of familiarity with the subject.

    If they come here wanting Todd to move faster, I haven't a clue what to say to them, so I tell them to talk to Todd. It's not my fault (or my problem) that they can't seem to contact Todd, and my statements that I talk to Todd and email with him regularly DO NOT in any way imply I'm close with Todd. They're simply statements to let the guy know, "Hey, dude, if I can reach him by both phone and email, then so can you."

    He then has the information he needs to go and FIGURE IT OUT, what might he be doing wrong, because the rest of us can reach him. The best I could do in that case (and I believe I DID offer this) was to say I'd mention this problem to Todd. I thought that, under most circumstances, that might be considered a gesture of help.

    I've talked to NO LESS THAN four people since last night, all of whom have either spoken with or exchanged emails with Todd in the past DAY. Does that make us ALL unhelpful jerks, or does that make Bob hopeless?

    I'm a writer, and for me, thinking ahead through an entire chess game is short-term. I have to think through every aspect of a story, make twenty characters do everything they're supposed to do, and not allow a single one of them to do anything stupid, unless they're supposed to, and I must do it for over a hundred thousand words, or four hundred pages. I can smell when something's not right about a scene, a scenario, or a situation. I HAVE to be able to do that.

    So when I say something's not right here, then something's not right here, and when I say something is missing, then you can take it to the bank that something's missing. Perhaps it is an IP problem. Sure. Okay.

    That being said, I can't imagine blindly sending 5 emails a day for months on end, with no response, and never suspecting that something might be amiss. If one of my "trusted readers" like my buddy Al was asked to read something I wrote along those lines, I'd get a mail saying, "This scene doesn't work, it doesn't wash. The guy would just get a restraining order against this stalker dude."

    This isn't an insult. This really is what Al would say. I think somebody else already mentioned the same thing. I wouldn't write anything like this anyway, because I wouldn't insult my readers' by trying to put something that weak in front of them. You can make readers believe a lot, but there are limits.

    So, I'm seeing (and saying) that something is missing from this picture. I don't know WHAT is missing, but I can tell it is. That shouldn't earn me an insult, or an attack. My apologies to everybody that they had to watch me bite back. I'm infamous for my ability to shred those who have crossed me in here, and I know I'm not supposed to do it.

    That being said, I think that Bob needs to figure out what he's doing wrong, because a whole MESS of us can reach Syssa easily, even if we have to wait a few days.

    For those who have stated that I have an agenda:

    I don't have an agenda, other than my unflinching loyalty to somebody who has treated ME consistently well. If that's something you think I should be demeaned for, go ahead and try. I'm not backing down. Todd has earned every bit of loyalty I show him. Period.

    I'm a happy Syssa customer. I find myself at this moment hoping that it really rubs certain people the wrong way. Does that make me a bad person?

    I'm okay with that.

    Back to my writing. I just got back from having my ears lowered, and I needed a warm-up first.

    ~ Jim ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  3. #5628

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    I never heard of one either. That's not to say that there wasn't one in the beginning. I've got 2 CRRC 26 Pros that are beam mount but these are the only ones that I have working knowledge of. Oh, and that's Red Raider as in Texas Tech, the masked rider, the double T, Horn buster, Sooner beater, etc., etc.
    Steve
    Fly it like you stole it

  4. #5629
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: Red Raider

    I never heard of one either. That's not to say that there wasn't one in the beginning. I've got 2 CRRC 26 Pros that are beam mount but these are the only ones that I have working knowledge of. Oh, and that's Red Raider as in Texas Tech, the masked rider, the double T, Horn buster, Sooner beater, etc., etc.
    Steve

    That's what I wrote (or THOUGHT it was), but it came out without the A.

    I type really fast, and sometimes a letter gets past me. My apologies; it has been corrected.


    ~ J ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  5. #5630

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: opjose

    I've never heard of the beam mount version of this engine.

    Does anyone else own one or has anyone else ever seen one?

    Please post if you have.

    I'm curious as to how unique this beam mount engine is.

    I have seen one, last year on this site (RCU) in the classifieds, it was on a profile plane


  6. #5631
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    AFAIK

    The beam mount Syssa 30 is special order.

    If you look at the sides of the crankcase you can see the bosses where they were as the beams are apparently part of the manufacturing process but get removed in the end?

    But you can get them left on and drilled for mounting bolts if you so desire?

    Here in this picture of crankcases "in process" you can see the beam mounts on every crankcase . . .



    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  7. #5632
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    What a cool photo, W8YE.

    I suppose the obvious question would be; what processes are employed in the creation of those? If it requires multiple machining processes, then it could very well be a while in between batches. Probably not very cost-effective to walk a single case through the process, unless it's one of those totally-CNC-cut jobs.

    I'm wondering how popular these are, how many batches were sold, whether any cases are typically put aside, and /or when another batch will be run.

    I didn't really know what a rail-mount was before. Now I see it's the same as most glow engines. Makes perfect sense.

    Oops. This isn't writing.

    Seeya.

    ~ J ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  8. #5633
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: w8ye

    AFAIK

    The beam mount Syssa 30 is special order.

    If you look at the sides of the crankcase you can see the bosses where they were as the beams are apparently part of the manufacturing process but get removed in the end?


    Yup, those mounting bosses on the crankcase blanks are used to fixture the crankcases during machining. Todd removes them for lightness but they are definitely strong enough to hold the engine with. They are thinner than what we normally see but then again the crankcase is machined from an extruded billet, not a casting. It makes an extremely strong part. It's a little less work to actually do an engine this way.

    You can see where the bosses were machined on your engine since the rest of the crankcase was anodized black. Those two silver lines on both sides of the case are the removed bosses

    I'm waiting for the pattern version of the engine and I think on those, the mounting bosses will have to stay. It's bound to be lighter than stand offs
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  9. #5634

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Thanks Matt - of course I have followed your many detailed and constructive postings concerning how to get the best out of this engine with a pipe in a variety of contexts. I am using those two props because they are the ones recommended by Todd (and he has published some thrust numbers +/- pipe), and I believe that the Vess 18.5 x 5.5 was developed as a specific match to this engine, especially for 3D. I will try a few other props with a bit more "meat", perhaps Vess 19A and 18 x 7 .......

    Many thanks for your comment and all of your ongoing contributions.

    Beej


    ORIGINAL: MTK


    ORIGINAL: Beej

    Well, this thread seems to have moved to the Twilight Zone at the moment so let me ask a straightforward question to get us temporarily (no doubt) back on track. It has been noted that the SAP is loud - even with inserts. There are a few DLE 30s at my club and I think they are actually much louder but perhaps as a combination of being a lower-revving engine and a deeper note ( with that pop-pop-pop-pop sound) people rarely complain about them. I get a few complaints about my SAP but it is on an ES 30 pipe, with a Vess 18.5 x 5.5 spinning 9500+ rpm so it's going to make a lot of noise. I also have the Falcon 18 x 6 CF and it's also noisy. On the basis that this is perhaps part prop rip and part a function of the high revs per se I was wondering whether anyone has tried the Falcon 18 x 6.5? That might quieten it down a bit without compromising 3D performance?

    Comments?

    Thanks

    Beej



    Geez Beej.... why run a pipe on a toothpick prop? The piped SAP will turn an 18.1x10 apc pattern prop just great and be very quiet. I'd suggest to lose the toothpick and put a real prop on that engine

  10. #5635
    Joystick TX's Avatar
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: bob_nj

    Not sure why the reason my engine went in is important? . . . . . . .
    The reason I askedwas to see if your problem was unique since it was taking so long.

    Several of us had a problem with the "soft" keys a couple of years ago and have had our engines repaired and back in service. That was an irritating problem, but it was not caused by a bad design, or faulton Todd's part; the vendor quality control was not good and some of the parts sent to Syssa were not up to specs.That is partof the reason I have a rule not to be in a hurry to get the "first" of almost anything. It takes any company time to get the million things ironed out in a new product. GPS problems anyone?

    I can't speak for Todd, but if you were a customer of mine I would ask you"What would it take to make you happy?" If your answer was within reason, I would grant it, if you were a nut job and wanted something insane, I would tell you the name and address of my nearest competitor and invite you to give them all your future business. My family has four companies and that is what we do in all of them. Ilearned a long time ago that you can't please everyone. It is interesting how many people came back after they went somewhere else. We keep track.

    Steve
    Check Six!

    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  11. #5636

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Customer service can make or break a company. Third party personal attacks don't help either. Red Raider, I appreciate the quote you added to this discussion. I for one intend to read it again.

  12. #5637
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Yeah, they don't help. So you should probably quit making them now.



    Funny thing. I've only known TWO people in my entire life who came from Hollywood, FL, and BOTH of them have a great deal of trouble resisting the urge to stir up trouble. Some people just gotta generate some hate and discontent every day, it seems.

    I think people like that are of little use.

    I was able to get rid of the first one by divorcing her.

    I talked to Todd today.

    Cool. My show is on.

    ~ Jim ~[8D]
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  13. #5638
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: Slow and Steady

    Customer service can make or break a company. Third party personal attacks don't help either.
    My advice on customer service is based on solid management principles. That is alsothe first thing we discuss when starting up new companies.

    Honestly, I don't see where Ihave personally attacked anyone, I'm just stating what happens in real life. I'm trying to geta problem resolved so we can get back to the fun part of the hobby.Bickering and finger pointing makes me sick.My offer to pay part of the cost of a new motor is not a joke.

    Don't read this if you are a purist and can't stand anything that is not100% related to the forum topic, this is RELATED to customer service:

    This is an extreme example, butsimilar events like thishappen every two or three monthsat one of our companies. Werecentlyhad a complaint about $200 ofproductdamage on a $1500 order. We have hada product damage rate of less than 1% for over five years and we are very proud of that.Our employeespackage andload the product on theFed Ex truck, we have video in the shipping and receiving area and saw no mishandling on our end, sowere surethe damage was done in transit, or at the customers location. The customer did not notify Fed Ex of any damage at the time the package was received. One month after receipt of the product, the customer posted a complaint onan Internet feedback board. We contacted him and asked the usual "what it would take to make him happy" IAW our policy. He said he wanteda 100% refund of the entire order plus shipping. We said we didn't think that was reasonable and offered to replace the damaged product free of charge, in two days,ANDwith free high-priority shipping. He said it would be all or nothing. We discussed why the damage was not reported to Fed Ex, why he waited so long to complain, why he didn't let us know about it before going public, etc. He had no valid reasons for not doing any of that.

    If you owned the company, what would you do with this customer? What if this was the third time he has done this over a four year period?
    Steve
    Check Six!

    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  14. #5639
    Joystick TX's Avatar
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA



    Jim, I hate to see all this time from your book writing go to waste, is there some way you can use some of this in one of your books?

    I'm going to take a break from all this "fun" and go flying tomorrow if the winds will get down below thirty or forty MPH. Putting stuff on the charger just in case I get lucky. Backup plan is to paint the trim on my GSS wing. Win-Lose for me.

    Steve
    Check Six!

    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  15. #5640

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    JoyStick,

    My comments weren't directed at you and I whole heartedly agree with what you have noted. Unfortunately, some folks can never be satisfied, but by and large most people are reasonable and appreciate good service. It is unfortunate that the incident you described is totally believable in todays society. I have also owned and operated companies and my policy has always been predicated on delivering at a level that I would want provided to me, or better - the Golden Rule. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

  16. #5641
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: Beej

    Thanks Matt - of course I have followed your many detailed and constructive postings concerning how to get the best out of this engine with a pipe in a variety of contexts. I am using those two props because they are the ones recommended by Todd (and he has published some thrust numbers +/- pipe), and I believe that the Vess 18.5 x 5.5 was developed as a specific match to this engine, especially for 3D. I will try a few other props with a bit more ''meat'', perhaps Vess 19A and 18 x 7 .......

    Many thanks for your comment and all of your ongoing contributions.

    Beej
    Gotya...you want to 3D. Lower pitch is definitely warranted then, but, as you've found out, even piped, it will tend to be loud. You might consider building a soft mount for it. For real quiet, soft mounting with a full rubber isolator is a must along with higher pitched props. There's quite a bit of detail of course, but will not hijack the thread any more. Besides, I have a whole nother thread that speaks to all of that in the pattern Forum

    BTW- we ran a whole bunch of props when I went to his shop some 3 years ago now...all were pattern sized props and we got a bunch of thrust numbers. As I recall, we were in the low 20's # on pipe (ESComposites 40G pipe, OS140RX header from Tower), with props like 17x12, 18x10, 18.1x10
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  17. #5642
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


    ORIGINAL: w8ye

    AFAIK

    The beam mount Syssa 30 is special order.

    If you look at the sides of the crankcase you can see the bosses where they were as the beams are apparently part of the manufacturing process but get removed in the end?

    But you can get them left on and drilled for mounting bolts if you so desire?

    Here in this picture of crankcases ''in process'' you can see the beam mounts on every crankcase . . .
    Neat. I did not see them advertized.
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  18. #5643

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    You probably won't? It came up in a conversation early on when somebody brought it up. Todd replied that the engines started out that way, but he was machining them off as part of the manf. process. I think he mentioned then he would be willing to leave them on if requested?

    I can't imagine him building many like that....

    -Al

  19. #5644
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Slow and Steady, I got confused since your reply was directedto me, I thought you were saying that I was causing trouble. Sorry about that.

    I suspect Jim is right inthat there may be more to the story than we see on here. Afterover 60years of dealing with customers, I have "almost" seen it all.
    Steve
    Check Six!

    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  20. #5645
    Joystick TX's Avatar
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    MTK, I need to stop being so lazy and make a soft mount for my engine while my plane is down for remodeling. I don't need it for the noise reduction, but it would be wise to cut down on the vibration.
    Steve
    Check Six!

    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  21. #5646
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    ORIGINAL: Joystick TX

    MTK, I need to stop being so lazy and make a soft mount for my engine while my plane is down for remodeling. I don't need it for the noise reduction, but it would be wise to cut down on the vibration.
    Steve,

    The soft mounts for the SAP weigh less than 2 1/2 ounces excluding the stand offs. I used 3/32" aircraft ply for the front and back plates, 1/4" thick x 1/2" round aircraft ply rings for the 3 studs and cross grained balsa for spacing the two plates. The rubber is standard fare from a motorcycle inner tube. The whole thing is medium CA'd together; plenty strong enough

    The soft mount doesn't need 10-32 bolts either (heavy). I use 8-32; 6-32's mount the back plate to the firewall. Of course that means getting another set of stand offs. I use McMaster Carr hex aluminum stand offs. Or if you ask Todd, he would make you a set with the right threads...around 30$ as I recall.

    Soft mounting allows one to open the firewall center, shaving some more weight and allowing easier, more consistent carb breathing.
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  22. #5647

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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Joystick, Since reading about your experience with customer service, two things came to my mind this weekend that I thought should be included in this thread.

    First, I neglected to note in my previous post, my experience with Syssa's service, and I have amended my original post to include the following: I have sent my engine in 2 to 3 times for service related to the rear bearing; and while I suggested to Todd that some of the damage may have been accident related and I would expect to pay for the repair, all work was done without charge under warranty, in addition to free upgrades.

    Secondly, In regard to anyone from Texas on this thread, while I don't particularly care for the Hollywood comment which I think is exagerated (at least a little), it dawned on me this past weekend that having visited Dallas, Texas at least six times in the last 3 years, I can say without hesitation, every business I visited provided a level of customer service that caused me to consider relocating - it was that good! I was really surprised by the warmth and hospitality from everyone I met. For example, I took my mother to the Corner Bakery, a restaurant that, you may know, requires you to order and pay at the front counter before seating. After order and charge transaction was completed, I decided to change my order. The cashier immediately voided the transaction and actually encouraged me to make any changes I desired. My experience at this restaurant was not unique. Maybe there is something in the water.


  23. #5648
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Well. . .

    I'll admit, my ex was WAY, WAY worse than you.

    Glad you liked Dallas.

    ~ Jim ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  24. #5649
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    Gotta say, I'm getting very disappointed in the lack of customer service...and I don't even own a motor!

    I've called probby a dozen different times over the last 3 weeks & left 2-3 polite messages asking for a return call because I had some questions.

    No reply. So much for trying to talk myself into spending the extra $$ for this engine...DLE or PTE it is, I guess.

    \"I feel like I\'m taking CRAZY PILLS!!\" Mugatu

  25. #5650
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    RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

    My new SAP180 just arrived today.

    ~ Jim ~
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .


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