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SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Old 06-21-2009, 11:05 AM
  #51  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

believe me...I wish I could make them less expensive...
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:24 AM
  #52  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

So….I guess we’re at that “The proof is in the pudding” part now….. As I mentioned, I’m interested.

The things I mentioned above are the legitimate business concerns which I would have were I to open another factory in the USA right now….which I’m not doing.

I’ll leave the business concerns to you.

The concern I have from this point is whether you’ll be one of the 5% in this industry who do not disappear within the first 2 years.

I’ll only leave you with one piece of advice. DO NOT sign any contracts with the big boys (Horizon, Great Planes) without a lawyer being involved. They are NOT always contacting you to buy and sell your product. If you’re getting in their way,I would not put it past them tosign an exclusive with you and then sell nothing and put you out of business. Not that I have any knowledge of their workings (that's my disclaimer).

I’ll be watching. I’d like to see how good these are. I’m a motorhead myself and it takes a real motorhead to make an engine that’s a step above all the others.

Jim

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Old 06-21-2009, 11:29 AM
  #53  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

rc11...do you compete regularly?  If so...let me know.  I am sure the engine will satisfy your goals.  I am toying with the idea of offering another porting scheme for a pipe...for a reasonable charge.  These are things you can do when you make your own parts and know them well.

The way it is stock...you will surely see a performace gain on a pipe...but with some more aggressive porting...it will be a bit unreal.   As you know...you usually cannot have it all and there are some compromises with crazy porting.  These compromises may be outweighed by another 200 rpm though at top end.

I will try with an 18x10 as soon as I get one.  Problem is I dont have any planes that use a 10 pitch yet....well...I have an H9 150 Mustang test plane that is almost ready...but I could always throw a prop on an engine and put it on the test stand.   I hope it will do an honest 120 mph with the SAP180hp...it does fit in there really easily though without any hacking and the exhaust pipes just protrude slightly from the bottom.

 What prop do you use normally?

Yes...the throttle is linear...you will like it.  Very little, if any, "recurving" of the throttle is needed to make it absolutely perfect.  The carb has an accelerator pump and high speed check valve, as well as the standard, built in walbro pump and regulator...so you can tune the low needle to exactly where it needs to be and still have great throttle response.  No need to make the low needle "fat" and gurgly to have great throttle response.  This is just another thing that separates the SAP-180HP from others.  Its one of those things that...yes of course it costs more, but it is clearly better in many ways. Once modelers start seeing our engines first hand and using them in their planes...I will let them write about everything else...it's far easier for me...and unbiased testimonies are better anyway...
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:32 AM
  #54  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

tsyssa,
you can build a simple test stand using a decent fish scale to measure pulling power, which is where it's at anyway.
Jim
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:44 AM
  #55  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

This engine may not be targeted to guys who simply want the cheapest thing going It is, however, targeted at me, and the price of $429 is quite good, considering it really doesn't cost must less to make this than a DA50, and it comes more complete than the DA does.

The businesses that survive poor economies are those with a unique value proposition. For some, it's price. Thank goodness that's only one form of value. Frankly, low price is the hardest business model to protect, since there will always be a cheaper guy around the corner. American products will not survive if we intend to compete on price. It's not practical given the standard of living we all want. We want to live in nice houses and have nice cars, but pay cheap prices. There will be many, many other retailers besides WalMart who survive. I don't expect to see decent quality shoes or business clothes at WalMart any time soon. Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Ferrari, BMW, Harley Davidson have all survived historically poor economies. But admittedly, those products are not intended for everyone.

America must compete on technology, as the Germans and others have done successfully for years. For America to survive as a manufacturer, the value proposition must be performance, quality, service, or something else besides price. I'm truly glad that Todd is aimed at producing a unique small gas engine with the best power to weight ratio, with excellent quality components, rather than chasing the the cheapest product possible.
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:00 PM
  #56  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Todd,just left you a phone message to put me on the list for one of these 30cc engines.You can call back anytime,retired,and we can gIve Gov. Rell a little bonus. Rich Mathews,Thomaston,CT.
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:54 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

It does look like a jewel, and being in CT, I guess I could visit and check them out, customer service should be real easy to do as well. Where you guy's doing the testing, in rocky hill, ct? or northford,ct?
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:06 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Looks likethis justmight be the ticket for my H9 1.50 P-51 engine replacement. Now I would have to decide if I want to wait for it.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:20 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA



The problem with competing in the US on price is that the middleman/distributors place a premium on American made Goods artificially jacking up the price so the cheap imported stuff looks better priced so they sell more volume of the cheap junk.( been through this with a product so don't tell me otherwise)

If there is enough volume any US made product can be made economicaly enough to be competitive in the price rangewith the imports.If the feds required goods made offshore to be madein accordance tosame requirements that a US manufacturer is required to meet the pacific rim stuff would disappear off the market.
They don't have to meet OSHA regs, EPA regs, meet insurance and wage standards.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:21 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Noise rules for pattern can be found at www.modelaircraft.org. Go to rules then to radio controlled aerobatics.
                    RC11
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:23 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Nosedragger.... Right On!!!
                     RC11
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:24 PM
  #62  
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Thanks for the advice skypilot..we do have quite a decent test stand...complete with linear bearings, voltage and current measuring on the ignition system and just about everything else you would need for an engine.  A majority of the testing is done in an airplane...as the loads are much greater and there is so much more to be learned in the air.  Not too many people realize the loads you can generate in a capable 3D model on the crankshaft bearings as compared to running on a static mount.

Also, any thrust figures that you will ever see with us will be from a typical airplane restrained on the ground with a digital gauge...a test stand is cheating a bit as it has less frontal area and gives slightly higher numbers.

If any of you are in CT and want to see a demo...give me an email or call...I'm usually flying on the weekends at some point at the field in Farmington.  It's the CCRCC.  

Nosedragger...that is why it will be tough for us to sell through distributors...the margin is not high and we would like to deal directly with the customers to give them the best possible advice and convey the most value. 

If we do sell through distributors...it will be quite controlled.  When someone puts an engine of ours in their plane...they want advice as well as a great product...and I have to know they are getting the best possible advice on props, what they want out of the plane, etc.  We know exactly the performance of the engine, how it should be setup and can answer any questions people may have. 

Helping people decide on certain things is very important and can make or break an airplane (literally).  Ultimately it's our engine in the plane and I just want to make sure everything possible is done so that the installation should go smoothly and the person should be nothing less than thrilled with the end result.  Over the last 3 years I have been actively flying...I have seen some planes that could fly so much better by simply changing the prop size.
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:12 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

You say that you have a hanger 9 P51, A trial in that model would be of interest to a lot of people I am sure .
Can you do that for us and let us know the results please
regards
G

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Old 06-21-2009, 03:30 PM
  #64  
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No problem...I'll get some photos and a video as soon as possible...
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:53 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Todd,

Wishing you all the best. This is an exciting (and scarey) time for you, I hope you stay going in that one direction!

There are things I could never hope to explain here, not enough time or space for all of it! But time will explain them to you better than I could ever hope to. That's where that flexibility I was talking about comes into play.

Carry on bravely!

Jim
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:12 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Personally I think the price is fine. Many of us will pay for quality and performance any day.

If it's too expensive for you, buy the cheaper options, but I don't see the point in trying to tell someone what price they should put on their product. I am very sure he is aware of the compeition and didn't blindly set the price.

If it performs well and has the quality to match it will sell itself.


Personally I would like to hear some numbers on a Mejzlik 18x6.
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:31 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot

I’m not saying that the value isn’t there. And it’s great that a certain portion of the flying population will beat a path to his door. That also means that rest of the population pretty much WON’T. The American economy and the world economy are in flux right now, that means that the last man standing will be the one with a realistic and flexible game plan. American products are going to have to sell for less by the time all the adjustments have been made, that’s why everything is in flux right now. I doubt that tsyssa will find things to be any different. Wal-Mart hasn’t done what it has done by offering only expensive American products, and that has taken away from the American workers.

Only by adjusting prices can we compete. Not blow-for-blow, foreign labor like Chinese labor is far too cheap. It’s great to be able to extol the virtues of good American craftsmanship, but that alone won’t convince many folks. Bring the price just a LITTLE closer AND extol the virtues and benefits of solid American craftsmanship, and MANY more folks will be able to rationalize spending some more for an engine.

Let’s not kid each other. We all know that pretty much every one of us has gone and shopped at Wal-Mart, knowing that somewhere your basket full of goods just unseated an American worker from his job. We’ve all gone to that cheap tool store and bought something made inChina.

We’ve all got families and budgets and kids in college and you-name-it waiting to eat up our money. If we’re going to rationalize spending more on a 30CC engine it’s got to be giving us enough reason to make that decision. I can pick up a CRRC engine for 200 bucks. I want something with American quality, and that’s worth more, but $429.00 plus shipping ??? That’s more than twice as much! Yes, it’s beautiful, and I feel like I want one. But most guys also have wives who will want to know what they want to spend the money on and why. Now, my wife is great. She’ll say sure, go ahead. My last wife and the three before that HATED my planes, and I had to play hell getting a few bucks here and there out of the budget. THAT is the norm out there, and in this economy with savings being lost in the market and all that I would bet that things are even worse that way for most guys. $389.00 and I stand a chance of being able to convince her that the value is there compared to the others. I’m not speaking about my present wife, I’m speaking for the other regular guys out there. Or say $399.00 delivered. Something like that.

That’s just my take on it, and as I said, it’s not just the value, because the value is there. It’s what the average Joe is going to be willing (or able) to spend to have that. The big money in this industry, except in very rare cases, is not made from the specialized market, it’s from the average guys, and 10 times as many of them are scrutinizing what is available and more often are spending money on more modestly priced items. Striking a balance between the very best and the very most expensive.

That’s my 2 cents worth!

And I still think I’d want one.

Jim


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Old 06-21-2009, 05:02 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Thanks, flaminheli!
Jim
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Old 06-21-2009, 05:29 PM
  #69  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

I know of a couple of people that have gotten great customer support from those china engine importers. Along with a great priced engine that produces great power. It boils down to price and demand. If the price is higher than the demand of the market that is already flooded with high quality low priced import engines such as *L and R**F then eventually that leads to what we call bankrupt. It is a sad fact that there are alot more people buying low priced import engines than high priced domestic engines. For the simple fact that the performance and aftersale service is there with the two above mentioned companies. I have to hand it to you though, it takes big ba**s to try and enter an already flooded market right now. Good Luck with the engine.
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Old 06-21-2009, 05:55 PM
  #70  
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ORIGINAL: tsyssa

No problem...I'll get some photos and a video as soon as possible...
That would be Great ,as you know from the P51 forum there is much discussion on suitable motors for that model .
If that motor will swing an 18x 10 prop at 8000 revs it should have eneough power to do the job , also
can you tell us what the dimensions are please ,plus can it be hand started?

Thanks
G

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Old 06-21-2009, 07:38 PM
  #71  
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So, the regular Joe who just needs standard gas engine power is not who this brand of engine is intended for. This should be interesting. Starting a business that ignores a HUGE portion of the modeling population. What’s the percentage of guys doing 3-D? I’m going to venture a guess that right now 70% of them are using Chinese engines.





NOTHING sells itself. Even QUALITY has to be advertised just right. And even if some DO sell themselves, that doesn’t mean ENOUGH of them will sell to stay solvent. Especially when your target is a limited portion of an already limited industry. DOUBLE especially when the market is already flooded (and getting worse) with viable (and getting better) engines by your competitors. Arguing existing potential problems or even arguing against them does not make them disappear. Business is business, and sticking your head in the sand is a sure recipe for disaster.





Take care.





Jim

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Old 06-21-2009, 08:30 PM
  #72  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Jim,
I am sorry you are not happy about something...but I did design this for the average modeler...I mean if you look at many quality gas 26cc gas engines...they cost more than mine and quite a few of them are out there.  Even quite a few performance glow engines that are 1.80 cu in are costing more than mine.  I'm not sure how often you fly..but if you do some quick calculations and realize the SAP180HP burns fuel at about half the rate of an equivalent power glow engine...and 87 octane is almost 10 times less expensive...it is actually quite a bit better.

I'm really sorry you are upset..but I don't know what to say.

Believe me...I am rich in the fact that I have a great wife and kid..and a wonderful family with great values....but I am no silver spooner...when I started my shop I was a broke college kid working 100 hours a week starting off with $3000 in credit card debt (which of course was paid back) plus student loans.  I worked for almost 2 years for nearly free to build the business...I know what determination is....I'm not new to manufacturing and business. My parents were not poor, but they were not oil tycoons.  I grew up in a small farm type town in Connecticut in a 1300 sq ft house with well water and a single bathroom.  It  that was not the typical, yuppie, 3 million dollar mansion that so many people think Connecticut is full of (only in the southwest corner - which is really part of New York City anyway - grin)

I put myself through college, fought and worked hard for every penny I made, every contract I won, and to get where I am and have been through some really tough stuff.   I am 32 now...and all the investment for the engine I did on my own....and I don't owe anyone anything right now.  My regular CNC and R&D business is doing well...I have not advertised in about 6 to 7 years and am not new developing products.

...not sure what else to say...but I just think that some might have a pre-conceived picture of the type of person I am...

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Old 06-21-2009, 08:44 PM
  #73  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

TexasSkyPilot

Your like or dislike of Jake has no place here.

tsyssa

There is a market for a engine that runs without tinkering, many guys don't want to tinker with their engines, they just want to fly a dead nuts reliable engine. Build it, they will buy it. I bought a Brillelli for that reason, unfortunaltly his suppliers brought him down, but it looks like you're doing it all so your fate will be in your hands, good luck and wishing you success.
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:10 PM
  #74  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


ORIGINAL: soarrich

TexasSkyPilot

Your like or dislike of Jake has no place here.

tsyssa

There is a market for a engine that runs without tinkering, many guys don't want to tinker with their engines, they just want to fly a dead nuts reliable engine. Build it, they will buy it. I bought a Brillelli for that reason, unfortunaltly his suppliers brought him down, but it looks like you're doing it all so your fate will be in your hands, good luck and wishing you success.

agreed. Let's move on.

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Old 06-21-2009, 09:19 PM
  #75  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot

So, the regular Joe who just needs standard gas engine power is not who this brand of engine is intended for. This should be interesting. Starting a business that ignores a HUGE portion of the modeling population. What’s the percentage of guys doing 3-D? I’m going to venture a guess that right now 70% of them are using Chinese engines.


NOTHING sells itself. Even QUALITY has to be advertised just right. And even if some DO sell themselves, that doesn’t mean ENOUGH of them will sell to stay solvent. Especially when your target is a limited portion of an already limited industry. DOUBLE especially when the market is already flooded (and getting worse) with viable (and getting better) engines by your competitors. Arguing existing potential problems or even arguing against them does not make them disappear. Business is business, and sticking your head in the sand is a sure recipe for disaster.

Take care.


Jim

There is no gauruntee that the cheap stuff from china is always going to be cheap either

I guess you never saw what the boat guys pay for billet engines, that market is flooded with cheap crap too, what do they buy? not the $250 chinese zen copy, but the 800-1000 dollar billet engines. and that segment of the rc market is even smaller than the smallest segment of rc aircraft.
Or better yet, lets look at fly fishing, fly fishing is hobby whereby people with diposable income can find an easyway to dispose of it. Fly reels from taiwan,china etc are all over the place for $50 but what do people buy? the 300+ dollar units made in the USA and England. Why do they sell? features, different style etc.

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