DLA 112 ???
12-21-2009, 03:24 PM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Not yet, but about $150.00 US would be fair for the 50cc class. My opinion only though.
Not yet, but about $150.00 US would be fair for the 50cc class. My opinion only though.
Although as you can see,this major Europian vendor is positioning the price of the DLA above the DLE,at least as for the DLA 56vs.DLE55...
The prices are in Euro
http://shop.lindinger.at/product_inf...7cf6b485e3a0de
http://shop.lindinger.at/product_inf...ducts_id=78866
DLA 112 vs DLE111
http://shop.lindinger.at/product_inf...ducts_id=83579
http://shop.lindinger.at/product_inf...ducts_id=78867
You can also see,that these prices are ludicrous to compare with the Europian brand name engines, so the success is guarantied.
Georgee
12-22-2009, 10:41 PM
#29
RE: DLA 112 ???
As an expat and rc flyer living in China I have seen some interesting things passing by and this is one of them.....;-)
To my experience DLE (Dong Ling Engines) is a sincere company, trying to offer reasonable priced engines with decent quality, technical backup and support.
DLA, which is based in the same city I am living in, is nothing of that at all. The owner has no single clue of rc planes or combustion engines and is relying on some locals for "advise" and "testing".
The more serious local flyers do not even want to put his stuff in their planes for testing, even when it is offered for free.
By the way, the two companies are more than 1800 km separated.....
I would stay away from it and stick to DA, DLE
Just my two cents
Roald
To my experience DLE (Dong Ling Engines) is a sincere company, trying to offer reasonable priced engines with decent quality, technical backup and support.
DLA, which is based in the same city I am living in, is nothing of that at all. The owner has no single clue of rc planes or combustion engines and is relying on some locals for "advise" and "testing".
The more serious local flyers do not even want to put his stuff in their planes for testing, even when it is offered for free.
By the way, the two companies are more than 1800 km separated.....
I would stay away from it and stick to DA, DLE
Just my two cents
Roald
12-23-2009, 05:48 AM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
I am the sales manager of DLA engines,first, thanks for your attention on DLA engines, I think it is necessary for me to clear something up:
1.DLA is a brand which had already registered in China Trademark Office, it is protected by Trade Mark Law.
2.DLA engines are not copies of any other engines, our purpose is to make outstanding engines for our customers.
3.The profits of every DLA dealer will be well protected and life-long warranty will be offered, the specific items is referred to DLA website.
4.We have no intension to knock off other engine brands, competition should be fair all the time.
5.Action speaks louder than words, the comments from the people who never tested DLA engines are meaningless and groundless.
6. We have professional test team, the results from them are very reliable.we do not need anyone who has prejudice towards us to test DLA engines, we only welcome customers who have interest in DLA engines to test.
7.DLA have alreay booked the booths in Beijing model exhibition, we welcome customers to visit.
8.We sincerely invite you to visit our new website: www.dlaengine.com and enjoy your staying there.
We will realease some other size of engines constantly to meet our customers needs.
Merry christmas and happy new year!
The sales manager of DLA engines
12-23-2009, 12:36 PM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
ORIGINAL: roalddogge
As an expat and rc flyer living in China I have seen some interesting things passing by and this is one of them.....;-)
To my experience DLE (Dong Ling Engines) is a sincere company, trying to offer reasonable priced engines with decent quality, technical backup and support.
DLA, which is based in the same city I am living in, is nothing of that at all. The owner has no single clue of rc planes or combustion engines and is relying on some locals for ''advise'' and ''testing''.
The more serious local flyers do not even want to put his stuff in their planes for testing, even when it is offered for free.
By the way, the two companies are more than 1800 km separated.....
I would stay away from it and stick to DA, DLE
Just my two cents
Roald
As an expat and rc flyer living in China I have seen some interesting things passing by and this is one of them.....;-)
To my experience DLE (Dong Ling Engines) is a sincere company, trying to offer reasonable priced engines with decent quality, technical backup and support.
DLA, which is based in the same city I am living in, is nothing of that at all. The owner has no single clue of rc planes or combustion engines and is relying on some locals for ''advise'' and ''testing''.
The more serious local flyers do not even want to put his stuff in their planes for testing, even when it is offered for free.
By the way, the two companies are more than 1800 km separated.....
I would stay away from it and stick to DA, DLE
Just my two cents
Roald
Well,as you can see on the links below,theyre promoting their engines as DLA/DL/
It would be a good starting point to sue them,if the DLE would be interested in it,right?
Anyway,those DLA engines are perfect copies of the DL s,although the quality is still questionable,the time will tell.
12-23-2009, 01:11 PM
#32
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RE: DLA 112 ???
Better if they might offer to send me one of their twins for a full inspection and public report. However, they would need to be prepared to accept an honest and accurate report on their product. Since I don't sell anyone's product I don't pull punches. They might also consider sending an engine that didn't have a used piston and ring in it
Having an unknown "test team" in Bejing does nothing for U.S. flyers. To place faith in the results means you need to have some idea of who is providing the information. They would need to have a known and established track record. A Bejing source of test people nobody has never met or communicated with is like trusting someone you've never met to hold your money for you. That don't happen.
Pictures, internal or external, of a new product tell the consumer absolutely nothing aside from how pretty a manufacturer makes it. That has zero bearing on actual performance or quality.
We should grant the same amount of trust to a new product that the manufacturers grant to the purchasers of their products. You don't get the product until the money hits their bank account, and even then you have no guarantee of delivery after they have the money. So we don't buy until the quality of the product is established. Sound fair?
So DLA, are you up to the challenge? I already know what needs to be known about your 56 so a look at the twin might benefit your cause.
Having an unknown "test team" in Bejing does nothing for U.S. flyers. To place faith in the results means you need to have some idea of who is providing the information. They would need to have a known and established track record. A Bejing source of test people nobody has never met or communicated with is like trusting someone you've never met to hold your money for you. That don't happen.
Pictures, internal or external, of a new product tell the consumer absolutely nothing aside from how pretty a manufacturer makes it. That has zero bearing on actual performance or quality.
We should grant the same amount of trust to a new product that the manufacturers grant to the purchasers of their products. You don't get the product until the money hits their bank account, and even then you have no guarantee of delivery after they have the money. So we don't buy until the quality of the product is established. Sound fair?
So DLA, are you up to the challenge? I already know what needs to be known about your 56 so a look at the twin might benefit your cause.
12-23-2009, 01:14 PM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
ORIGINAL: georgee
Anyway,those DLA engines are perfect copies of the DL s,although the quality is still questionable,the time will tell.
Anyway,those DLA engines are perfect copies of the DL s,although the quality is still questionable,the time will tell.
DL Engines make a 55cc and a 111cc
DLA Engines advertise a 56cc and a 112cc
I agree that DLA Engines don't do themselves too many favours by having their engines look strikingly similar to DL and their choise of a company name is probably no coincidence either but we cannot make statements about "perfect copies" unless we have something to substantiate that claim with. Wasn't DL also beaten up in the early days for being a "perfect copy" of DA?
Have you done a part by part comparison between those two engines?
Do you even have one of the DLA units?
Just my 2c worth
12-23-2009, 01:55 PM
#34
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RE: DLA 112 ???
Lets just say the difference between a 55 and a 56 or a 111 and a 112 can be a meaningful as the addition of a couple of cylinder base gaskets, or as meaningless as a simple math error in a volume calculation. One needs to keep in mind how the BME 105 came about. Base gaskets.
Have you ever seen a DLA engine? I know of one on the west coast of the U.S. right now, and what it is about. I will agree with your statement about being a "perfect copy", but it's close enough. That in and of itself is not a bad thing because the DLE is close enough to being a copy of a DA, which internally is close enough to being a copy of something else. That's why I stated that all two strokes are copies of something at some point in their "design".
Have you ever seen a DLA engine? I know of one on the west coast of the U.S. right now, and what it is about. I will agree with your statement about being a "perfect copy", but it's close enough. That in and of itself is not a bad thing because the DLE is close enough to being a copy of a DA, which internally is close enough to being a copy of something else. That's why I stated that all two strokes are copies of something at some point in their "design".
12-23-2009, 02:05 PM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Have you ever seen a DLA engine? I know of one on the west coast of the U.S. right now, and what it is about. I will agree with your statement about being a ''perfect copy'', but it's close enough. That in and of itself is not a bad thing because the DLE is close enough to being a copy of a DA, which internally is close enough to being a copy of something else. That's why I stated that all two strokes are copies of something at some point in their ''design''.
Have you ever seen a DLA engine? I know of one on the west coast of the U.S. right now, and what it is about. I will agree with your statement about being a ''perfect copy'', but it's close enough. That in and of itself is not a bad thing because the DLE is close enough to being a copy of a DA, which internally is close enough to being a copy of something else. That's why I stated that all two strokes are copies of something at some point in their ''design''.
And no, I haven't seen them either and the only information I have is the same as most here, photos and numbers from the DLA website. That's why I have made no comments about them, neither positive nor negative.
How can we either slam or praise an engine we haven't seen?
I remember very well the storm of condemnation over DL when they first came out for being "ruthless copies of DA" and other similar statements. Now, they are the de-facto standard others compare with?
My point is that we have short memories and tend to be trigger happy. If it was OK for DL to copy DA, why is it a crime for DLA to copy DLE?
Funny world we live in!
From all I know, DLA can be anything from a complete lemon to an excellent little engine. Nobody knows that for a fact until they have actually tested the motor.
12-23-2009, 02:35 PM
#37
RE: DLA 112 ???
ORIGINAL: dla_engine
I am the sales manager of DLA engines,first, thanks for your attention on DLA engines, I think it is necessary for me to clear something up:
1.DLA is a brand which had already registered in China Trademark Office, it is protected by Trade Mark Law.
2.DLA engines are not copies of any other engines, our purpose is to make outstanding engines for our customers.
3.The profits of every DLA dealer will be well protected and life-long warranty will be offered, the specific items is referred to DLA website.
4.We have no intension to knock off other engine brands, competition should be fair all the time.
5.Action speaks louder than words, the comments from the people who never tested DLA engines are meaningless and groundless.
6. We have professional test team, the results from them are very reliable.we do not need anyone who has prejudice towards us to test DLA engines, we only welcome customers who have interest in DLA engines to test.
7.DLA have alreay booked the booths in Beijing model exhibition, we welcome customers to visit.
We will realease some other size of engines constantly to meet our customers needs.
Merry christmas and happy new year!
The sales manager of DLA engines
12-23-2009, 03:59 PM
#39
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RE: DLA 112 ???
Told ya there was one on the west coast.
The amount of stuff that isn't posted in threads is enormous. There a great many engine secrets being held between various individuals that is not being released to the public for various reasons. We learned that lesson with another engine and size, plus there's another engine where lot's of secrets are being witheld.
A very good reason for people that post about engines to represent products with honesty and accuracy[8D]
So DLA, now that the cat's out of the bag and you've been called on the carpet, are you ready to submit an engine for another review? The last one didn't work out too well.
apalsson,
Your quote: "From all I know, DLA can be anything from a complete lemon to an excellent little engine. Nobody knows that for a fact until they have actually tested the motor."
is accurate from your position, but a couple of people are well aware of DLA quality and performance. Jody posted from hands on experience. He wasn't going to because he's a DLE dealer, but sometimes you have to let things out you didn't want to. I've been cryptic all this time and generally alluded to things instead of posting experience references for that reason.
There is enough factual information to make the call at this time. An engine has been examined and tested. However, I'm comfortable with giving them another chance to substantiate their published statements. Until then they are on my "don't buy" list along with a couple of other engines.
The amount of stuff that isn't posted in threads is enormous. There a great many engine secrets being held between various individuals that is not being released to the public for various reasons. We learned that lesson with another engine and size, plus there's another engine where lot's of secrets are being witheld.
A very good reason for people that post about engines to represent products with honesty and accuracy[8D]
So DLA, now that the cat's out of the bag and you've been called on the carpet, are you ready to submit an engine for another review? The last one didn't work out too well.
apalsson,
Your quote: "From all I know, DLA can be anything from a complete lemon to an excellent little engine. Nobody knows that for a fact until they have actually tested the motor."
is accurate from your position, but a couple of people are well aware of DLA quality and performance. Jody posted from hands on experience. He wasn't going to because he's a DLE dealer, but sometimes you have to let things out you didn't want to. I've been cryptic all this time and generally alluded to things instead of posting experience references for that reason.
There is enough factual information to make the call at this time. An engine has been examined and tested. However, I'm comfortable with giving them another chance to substantiate their published statements. Until then they are on my "don't buy" list along with a couple of other engines.
12-23-2009, 05:01 PM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Your quote: ''From all I know, DLA can be anything from a complete lemon to an excellent little engine. Nobody knows that for a fact until they have actually tested the motor.''
is accurate from your position, but a couple of people are well aware of DLA quality and performance. Jody posted from hands on experience. He wasn't going to because he's a DLE dealer, but sometimes you have to let things out you didn't want to. I've been cryptic all this time and generally alluded to things instead of posting experience references for that reason.
Your quote: ''From all I know, DLA can be anything from a complete lemon to an excellent little engine. Nobody knows that for a fact until they have actually tested the motor.''
is accurate from your position, but a couple of people are well aware of DLA quality and performance. Jody posted from hands on experience. He wasn't going to because he's a DLE dealer, but sometimes you have to let things out you didn't want to. I've been cryptic all this time and generally alluded to things instead of posting experience references for that reason.
I can well understand any reluctance by Jodi to post anything re the engine, given how quickly you get shot if you are flagged as an engine dealer, regardless of the merits of what you have to say (as I very much experienced during the last couple of weeks in another thread).
Regarding the "who copies what" bit, I stick to previous statements that because DL/DLE came about in exactly that way, I find struggle with judging anyone who then in turn copies them. Generally speaking, I tend to frown upon anyone trying to build their business by using other people's research or intellectual property but again, DA copied someone, DL copied DA, DLA copied DL etc etc.
Not a very innovative world we live in huh?
12-23-2009, 06:12 PM
#41
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RE: DLA 112 ???
Not really. But it clearly indicates why a lot of high end, high performance engine innovations don't make it to the public sector. If you open to view or sell just one on the public market it will only be a matter of weeks before someone else is selling your design if it was a good one. In that respect the public is decades behind what could have been available, and there is soooooo much more.
A lack of honor actively punishes the public and stops them from having better than they do.
A lack of honor actively punishes the public and stops them from having better than they do.
12-24-2009, 03:48 AM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Better if they might offer to send me one of their twins for a full inspection and public report. However, they would need to be prepared to accept an honest and accurate report on their product. Since I don't sell anyone's product I don't pull punches. They might also consider sending an engine that didn't have a used piston and ring in it
Having an unknown ''test team'' in Bejing does nothing for U.S. flyers. To place faith in the results means you need to have some idea of who is providing the information. They would need to have a known and established track record. A Bejing source of test people nobody has never met or communicated with is like trusting someone you've never met to hold your money for you. That don't happen.
Pictures, internal or external, of a new product tell the consumer absolutely nothing aside from how pretty a manufacturer makes it. That has zero bearing on actual performance or quality.
We should grant the same amount of trust to a new product that the manufacturers grant to the purchasers of their products. You don't get the product until the money hits their bank account, and even then you have no guarantee of delivery after they have the money. So we don't buy until the quality of the product is established. Sound fair?
So DLA, are you up to the challenge? I already know what needs to be known about your 56 so a look at the twin might benefit your cause.
Better if they might offer to send me one of their twins for a full inspection and public report. However, they would need to be prepared to accept an honest and accurate report on their product. Since I don't sell anyone's product I don't pull punches. They might also consider sending an engine that didn't have a used piston and ring in it
Having an unknown ''test team'' in Bejing does nothing for U.S. flyers. To place faith in the results means you need to have some idea of who is providing the information. They would need to have a known and established track record. A Bejing source of test people nobody has never met or communicated with is like trusting someone you've never met to hold your money for you. That don't happen.
Pictures, internal or external, of a new product tell the consumer absolutely nothing aside from how pretty a manufacturer makes it. That has zero bearing on actual performance or quality.
We should grant the same amount of trust to a new product that the manufacturers grant to the purchasers of their products. You don't get the product until the money hits their bank account, and even then you have no guarantee of delivery after they have the money. So we don't buy until the quality of the product is established. Sound fair?
So DLA, are you up to the challenge? I already know what needs to be known about your 56 so a look at the twin might benefit your cause.
02-05-2010, 01:30 PM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
Ok, my 5cents worth! I have the engine that Jody had for evaluation! I don't give a rat if it says Santa Claus on the inside of the ports, I want a product that will run, perform as advertised, be reliable, and give me the bang for the buck. I am so tired of hearing everyone say, "I got a DA, I got a DL, I got.....". If someone else has it its worth a fortune, if it belongs to me its worthless if I try to trade or sell it. Everyone is hung up on names, look at the product, IF you are satisified with it then it is good, if it does what you want, it is great, if it lasts a long time and you feel you got your money's worth it's fantastic. Products come out everyday, some good, some bad, however until you have one in your hands, check it out, and evaluate it, until then your statement is worthless!
I plan on doing a thorough review of this engine and an Ultimate 50cc. Not for the name of the product but if I get what I consider my moneys worth. I talked to the seller in the US, 2 year warranty, will it be honored, we will see. Will the engine perform, we will see. Will I like it? I like the looks, I like the insides, will it perform? That is to be seen!
What I am trying to say, does it have to say Harley on the side to be a motorcycle? Is it better than yours? Does yours start, get you where you are going, do you like the way it looks, did you feel over the barrel when you paid for it, are you satisified with the way it performs?????? It might have a few more bells and whistles, but are you perpared to pay for those bells and whistles, do you actually need them??? That is what everyone should be asking themselves! Names are just names! What you percieve to be good is good, if you are so concerned about what others think, then I guess you need to take out a mortgage and get that Harley.
Ed
I plan on doing a thorough review of this engine and an Ultimate 50cc. Not for the name of the product but if I get what I consider my moneys worth. I talked to the seller in the US, 2 year warranty, will it be honored, we will see. Will the engine perform, we will see. Will I like it? I like the looks, I like the insides, will it perform? That is to be seen!
What I am trying to say, does it have to say Harley on the side to be a motorcycle? Is it better than yours? Does yours start, get you where you are going, do you like the way it looks, did you feel over the barrel when you paid for it, are you satisified with the way it performs?????? It might have a few more bells and whistles, but are you perpared to pay for those bells and whistles, do you actually need them??? That is what everyone should be asking themselves! Names are just names! What you percieve to be good is good, if you are so concerned about what others think, then I guess you need to take out a mortgage and get that Harley.
Ed
02-05-2010, 01:39 PM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
ORIGINAL: edwal07
Ok, my 5cents worth! I have the engine that Jody had for evaluation! I don't give a rat if it says Santa Claus on the inside of the ports, I want a product that will run, perform as advertised, be reliable, and give me the bang for the buck. I am so tired of hearing everyone say, ''I got a DA, I got a DL, I got.....''. If someone else has it its worth a fortune, if it belongs to me its worthless if I try to trade or sell it. Everyone is hung up on names, look at the product, IF you are satisified with it then it is good, if it does what you want, it is great, if it lasts a long time and you feel you got your money's worth it's fantastic. Products come out everyday, some good, some bad, however until you have one in your hands, check it out, and evaluate it, until then your statement is worthless!
I plan on doing a thorough review of this engine and an Ultimate 50cc. Not for the name of the product but if I get what I consider my moneys worth. I talked to the seller in the US, 2 year warranty, will it be honored, we will see. Will the engine perform, we will see. Will I like it? I like the looks, I like the insides, will it perform? That is to be seen!
What I am trying to say, does it have to say Harley on the side to be a motorcycle? Is it better than yours? Does yours start, get you where you are going, do you like the way it looks, did you feel over the barrel when you paid for it, are you satisified with the way it performs?????? It might have a few more bells and whistles, but are you perpared to pay for those bells and whistles, do you actually need them??? That is what everyone should be asking themselves! Names are just names! What you percieve to be good is good, if you are so concerned about what others think, then I guess you need to take out a mortgage and get that Harley.
Ed
Ok, my 5cents worth! I have the engine that Jody had for evaluation! I don't give a rat if it says Santa Claus on the inside of the ports, I want a product that will run, perform as advertised, be reliable, and give me the bang for the buck. I am so tired of hearing everyone say, ''I got a DA, I got a DL, I got.....''. If someone else has it its worth a fortune, if it belongs to me its worthless if I try to trade or sell it. Everyone is hung up on names, look at the product, IF you are satisified with it then it is good, if it does what you want, it is great, if it lasts a long time and you feel you got your money's worth it's fantastic. Products come out everyday, some good, some bad, however until you have one in your hands, check it out, and evaluate it, until then your statement is worthless!
I plan on doing a thorough review of this engine and an Ultimate 50cc. Not for the name of the product but if I get what I consider my moneys worth. I talked to the seller in the US, 2 year warranty, will it be honored, we will see. Will the engine perform, we will see. Will I like it? I like the looks, I like the insides, will it perform? That is to be seen!
What I am trying to say, does it have to say Harley on the side to be a motorcycle? Is it better than yours? Does yours start, get you where you are going, do you like the way it looks, did you feel over the barrel when you paid for it, are you satisified with the way it performs?????? It might have a few more bells and whistles, but are you perpared to pay for those bells and whistles, do you actually need them??? That is what everyone should be asking themselves! Names are just names! What you percieve to be good is good, if you are so concerned about what others think, then I guess you need to take out a mortgage and get that Harley.
Ed
Well said.
I'm also tired of the "who copied what" argument. DLE make good engines by now. In the beginning, they weren't all that crash hot. They came about as copies of DA who also had a rocky start with their copies of someone else (3W?) ... etc etc
Does the engine work? Will it be sold at commercially reasonable pricing?
If they work well first up, I'd say well done DLA
02-05-2010, 01:55 PM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
I agree! I have been a Master Heavy Equipment/Heavy truck mechanic for over 30 years. I see the new up and comers lining up at the SnapOn, Matco, etc... tool trucks buying new tools. Why? Fast credit! Are they better than Craftsman, NAPA, Harbor Freight, or Blue Point. Not in my book! I have a multitude of name brands in my box. However, I will only pay more if it is a specialty tool. For instance, Craftsman allen head socket head set 24.95 on sale, SnapOn 124.00. How many could you wear out and break(and have replaced) for the difference. Same with RC, I look, evaluate, test, and if I like it, hey......
Nuf Said
Ed
02-05-2010, 06:39 PM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
Historically, the big Hondas and Yamahas have proven to be more reliable and having longer service life cycles over a Harley. For those that are going to become irate over that statement, I've had four Harleys over the years, a couple of Triumphs, a Matchless, and a Yamaha. My brother had a Honda. I don't care what name is on the side either, but the darn thing better work as advertised.
02-06-2010, 08:37 AM
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RE: DLA 112 ???
i agree with the "historically" part to that, especially in the late 70's when AMF owned harley, but in the mid 80's when harley took back over and they came out with the evo motor, things changed, became much more reliable, and the days of it sitting the garage leaking oil or driving down the road and having your lights short out all went away, ive had a early 90's sporty and a 2000 low rider, both have been extremely reliable, no problems what so ever, had the low rider for 10 years and just recently sold it still with no issues at all, (needed money but thats the governments fault and a whole nother topic
)...anyway that brings me to my point(eventually) sometimes it takes some time to get things right, even now i wouldnt buy a brand new motor out on the market, even from reputable place like DA, they've had issues with the 85 and 170 when they 1st came out, they had to do "updates" from everything from crank shims to decompressioning, they are planning a 120 in the spring, i wouldnt buy it right away for the same reasons...so id like to hear from people with the 112 after its been on the market for a while.....
)...anyway that brings me to my point(eventually) sometimes it takes some time to get things right, even now i wouldnt buy a brand new motor out on the market, even from reputable place like DA, they've had issues with the 85 and 170 when they 1st came out, they had to do "updates" from everything from crank shims to decompressioning, they are planning a 120 in the spring, i wouldnt buy it right away for the same reasons...so id like to hear from people with the 112 after its been on the market for a while.....