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RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

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Old 11-22-2010, 05:43 PM
  #1551
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

i bought a yda 56 from henry and never received the optical kill switch even after calling henry twice and emailing him a couple of times. will someone be able to shoot one of these to me at some point in the future after the announcement?
thanks,
bart
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:44 PM
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You are thinking to much. Ask Carlos to run the engine for you if thats possible and then you don't have to change anything.

The engine should be dependable to a point. With that in mind I never bring the engine down to idle while I'm flying until I have the field made for landing. That should give you an extra peace of mind. The idle will continue to be more dependable as you fly it and put more time on it. One day you will go out and start your engine and the idle rpm will shoot up. You will have to reduce the idle by the idle trim on your transmitter. At that point you can be pretty confident that your engine is broke in. It will still improve after that but you probably won't notice.

Resist messing with the needles to much. They do need broke in.
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Ok, so can we say, as a rough guide...

it could be "normal" for me with a new engine to have a high idle where It will never idle low enough for the plane not to "run away" on a tarmac runway... ie "normal" that I should start the engine.. and walk the plane out by hand to the head of the runway.... fly.... land and on touchdown hit the kill switch??

Therefore.. All I need to "hunt" for in the needles is a decent transition.. nothing else, and not go looking for this idle which might not be available yet.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:02 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Quote:
ORIGINAL: ceecrb1

Ok, so can we say, as a rough guide...

it could be ''normal'' for me with a new engine to have a high idle where It will never idle low enough for the plane not to ''run away'' on a tarmac runway... ie ''normal'' that I should start the engine.. and walk the plane out by hand to the head of the runway.... fly.... land and on touchdown hit the kill switch??

Therefore.. All I need to ''hunt'' for in the needles is a decent transition.. nothing else, and not go looking for this idle which might not be available yet.
Short answer - YES, they will normally idle low enough for you to do that but it will depend a lot on the runway (how smooth is it?) and the rolling resistance of the airframe. I have one airframe (same as the 28cc Yak that Axar shows in some of their videos) that simply refuses to stop rolling on a paved surface even with an idle of 1100 rpm

Ok - this is how it should go for you - this is what works for me and about the only times I don't need to manually kill the enignes is when I use either the ground or the air in the tank as a kill switch (crash or run out of fuel),

Remember VERY small adjustments of the needle each time - about the width of a screwdriver bale or about 1/32 of a turn each time, let the engine stabilise then next adjustment. do not keep it running for more than about 5 minutes while the plane is static - otherwise you may overheat the engine.

The distributor should have checked the timing and the "factory settings" on the needles (sorry fhm555 I agree with about 99% of what you said but I have seen such an incredible multitude of needle settings on these form the factory that I cannot say they leave the factory with needles set right). Make sure the needles are at 1 3/4 turns open on both needles using the method described by fmh555.

1 - fit an 18/8 prop (or similar load - I like the Biela 18/8 on the JC 28 - seems a very good match)

Start the engine (Choke on, throttle about 1/4 open, flip until it pops, Throttle down, choke open, ignition on and flip it until it starts - you may have to give it a "couple of clicks" of throttle to make it start first time).

Let it warm up for about 2 minutes or so - blip the throttle as necessary to keep it running.

Bring the revs up and adjust the high needle (furthest from the engine) inwards until the revs begin to drop then open it up about 1/8 turn. (be very cautious of the spining prop, make sure the plane is tethered and you are behind the prop).

Bring the revs down and adjust the low needle until you get a crisp transition - if the enigne bogs then picks up when you apply throttle - the low speed is too rich so wind it in - if it dies when you give it throttle - it iss too lean so wind it out.

Go back to high revs and re-adjust the high needle

Set your throttle travel to give you a nice steady low idle but make sure it is high enough for the engine to keep running.

Go and fly it. Re-adjust as necessary while it runs in and according to how it runs in the air.
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:38 PM
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steve,
your posts on tuning have been very helpful. not only does my 56 run like a top, my leaf blower has never run better.
thanks,
bart
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:52 PM
  #1556
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

No prob bob, I've never actually thought of any engine as having a true, one size fits all, "factory default". If you noticed I referred to it as his personal default, and I only mention it to start with because for some crazy reason more and more engine makers are claiming there is a factory default setting when we all know settings are as individual as place, time of year, flying style, etc.

As for over thinking, I guess you could say that, but what's the fun in having a gas engine if you are afraid to tinker with it from time to time? It's always better to know how and not need to, than it is to need to and not know how, and what better way to learn than on a known good, healthy engine?
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:56 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Thanks for the compliments guys but I have a major admission to make.

I didn't invent this wheel for tuning and setting up an engine for RC - I didn't even re-invent it.
What I did was listen to some other experienced people and understood what they are saying. Those people include but are by no means limited to Tired Old Man, Antique, Badazzmax, Pe Reivers, BCCHI, W8YE and others. For many years they (we) have been saying the same thing in sometimes different ways.

What is it we all say?
2 basic things

1 - these engines are not rocket science - if it seems over complicated, there is something wrong.
2 - See #1.
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:51 AM
  #1558
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

WoW all theses issues, I'm getting ready to get back into gas but I have to wonder.
In the 1990's I was using quadra's, zenoah, and a&m sachs engines. Those engines always seemed so friendly.
All this research lately makes me a little nervous about buying 1 of these engines
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:10 AM
  #1559
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


Quote:
ORIGINAL: aussiesteve
1 - these engines are not rocket science - if it seems over complicated, there is something wrong.
2 - See #1.
Which just confirms to me that there was definately something wrong happening with that fuel leaking out, an therefore air leaking in.
I CAN tune 2 stoke glows and well.. this one was just causing me to chase me tail all the time...

to kerwin50... dont read too much into my problems as there were 2 things happening here.
1st, my lack of knowledge of 2stroke gas engines.. you wont have that problem
2nd mine seems to have had a tiny leak in a gasket between the reed and engine block, i found a tiny shard of metal deforming the gasket. This couldv've been sent to the offical repair place in spain, fixed, tested and returned to me in a 5 day, monday to friday, not taking any flying time away from me at the cost of 10€ to get it there and 10€ to get it back..
I tried myself and my problems snowballed on me.. I scratched the cylinder and piston. Me. not faulty.

Did I learn.. heck yeah 150€´s and a lot of stress and lost a lot of flying time... yeah I´ve learned!!!
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:17 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Could minor binding issues between moving parts that would be overcome by RPM cause idle issues that could not be tuned out?

I understand that a certain amount of binding is to be expected during initial run in when rings are seating and such, but I'm talking about things like excess end play in the crank allowing the rod pin on the crank to drag against the back case half when thrust is reduced by taking the engine down to idle speed, or a misalignment of the jug forcing the rod/piston to bind as it comes up to and retreats from TDC/BDC, basically any place where parts subject to overly generous QA limits are used, or quick initial assembly might create a binding condition that would otherwise not exist and is not severe enough to cause a catastrophic failure.

Would that not explain why some engines would require more "break in" time than their siblings, or why some of them will exhibit a rough or higher than usual idle which can't be tuned out through the full duration of their service life?
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:44 AM
  #1561
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Have you seen the DLE30 thread?Lol!Every engine has some bad units that go out.

And sometimes, like in this circumstance, a small problem gets bigger in the users process of trying to find it. I've seen a half dozen of these at my feild with no issues


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Old 11-23-2010, 09:24 AM
  #1562
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: fhm555

Could minor binding issues between moving parts that would be overcome by RPM cause idle issues that could not be tuned out?

I understand that a certain amount of binding is to be expected during initial run in when rings are seating and such, but I'm talking about things like excess end play in the crank allowing the rod pin on the crank to drag against the back case half when thrust is reduced by taking the engine down to idle speed, or a misalignment of the jug forcing the rod/piston to bind as it comes up to and retreats from TDC/BDC, basically any place where parts subject to overly generous QA limits are used, or quick initial assembly might create a binding condition that would otherwise not exist and is not severe enough to cause a catastrophic failure.

Would that not explain why some engines would require more ''break in'' time than their siblings, or why some of them will exhibit a rough or higher than usual idle which can't be tuned out through the full duration of their service life?
What you are implying here in a back handed way is that one manufacturer is better then another with their Quality control, therefore their product is better. That is absolutely true. however once you break these engines in there isn't a nickels wort of difference between the best and the worst. We have many brands at our field and some struggled when they were new (Same Brand) and some didn't. As there were differences between brands also. The one thing they all have in common is that they all run fine now. Here is the the kicker. DA's are about a nickel better then the worst.[X(]
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:14 AM
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Old Tom, Gee Tom, I like the way you sugar things over. HA Have a good turkey Day,
Cheers, Bill
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: RCplanman

Old Tom, Gee Tom, I like the way you sugar things over. HA Have a good turkey Day,
Cheers, Bill
Same to you and everyone here.

I tried to out do Steve but I guess I lost my touch. Or you guys are starting to figure me out.
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Tseres

What you are implying here in a back handed way......
Wow Tom, again I have apparently done what I do best, which is totally screw up what I intended to ask when I attempted to translate my thoughts to the written word.

Please allow me to try again.

First off sir, I have little working knowledge of ANY chinese engine beyond what I've read because after more than two years of reading about them, I see every last chinese r/c aero engine maker as a fly by night bunch of opportunists looking to take advantage of a largely ignorant consuming public by foisting off an obviously inferior product on a group who's knowledge of said product is by and large limited to bolting sub assemblies together while prattling endlessly about their latest "build", all the while waiting anxiously for a tiny hand picked cadre of "experts" to hand feed them everything they think they need to know about their shiny new toy, and how all those so called problems are really not problems at all. It's as simplistic as FAA accident investigation Tom, it's always pilot error, at least according to the "experts".

The chinese are laughing all the way to the bank as they slip in the nose ring and lead their victims from one sloppy piece of land fill fodder to the next.

The GWX was great for a while, but now it's the HKT that kicks butt. Oh wait, the ZBT, rumored to actually be an HKT under a different badge, is NOW the cock O the walk, and as long as their are enough hopeless optimists who will buy into the fiction that anyone can actually offer an engine worth $500 for $189, our friends to the east will continue to milk them for all they will give.

Don't get me wrong here Tom, if parts availability were not such a constant nag in the chinese engine arena, I'd be all over them because I'm more than capable of building a decent engine out of a sloppy potential boat anchor, but I'd rather not have to manufacture my own cases, cranks, etc.

My point sir, is this. Why all the fiction and bluster to sell an engine as install ready when they are anything but? Why not leave the install ready moniker where it rightfully belongs and be honest about the chinese product? Why not say all chinese r/c aero engines will require additional work to bring them up to par and let the buyer beware? Is that not what every distributor of them is currently doing? Thoroughly inspecting each and every engine to insure they are not shipping a grenade instead of a hobby engine while beating each other's brains out fighting for a share of what is a tiny market to begin with?

It seems plain to me that trying to sell any current chinese engine is akin to trying to bail out a slowly sinking ship, it works for a while but eventually the water wins and the bailer must transfer to another leaky ship where they start the whole bailing process over again, or they give up and exit the chinese engine market.

By trying to maintain this fiction, are distributors not actually making it possible for the shoddy quality to continue indefinitely? Perhaps if the general public got a taste of the unfiltered chinese product, consumers voting with their cash would force the chinese to tighten up their wig a notch or two.

As a glass half full kind of guy (who else would read for two solid years when they could be flying), I have hope that the chinese will eventually evolve into a reliable source of dependable hobby engines which don't require a second mortgage to own, but at present, that is only hope for the future because no such animal actually exists at this time, at least not accordingto every thing I've been reading.

Soapbox returned to the stowed and locked position.
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:42 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

fhm555


Sorry about the misunderstanding. My comment was taken out of context. I can see after re reading it how you came to that conclusion. My comment was in no way directed at you personally.

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Old 11-23-2010, 03:48 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

While the primer is drying on the P-47 I've been working on a little run in stand for the 112.

Tom (Pane Addicts) how do you have your choke and throttle linkage set up? Did you get rid of the spring loaded choke?
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:33 PM
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Hi Tseres

Little bit off topic here ,................

Tseres ,.............. you have a Dremel table saw , so do I , and it,s 37 yrs old , and still going strong . I payed $65 ( that was a lot of $ ) for it, wayyyyyyyy back when . . I also have the table saw .

Michel
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:09 PM
  #1569
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Tseres

While the primer is drying on the P-47 I've been working on a little run in stand for the 112.

Tom (Pane Addicts) how do you have your choke and throttle linkage set up? Did you get rid of the spring loaded choke?
Hey Tom, We did get rid of the spring loaded choke. I make a manual one that comes out the bottom of the plane. Right now the cowling is off so I will have to get pictures of it fully installed when I am done working on the plane. However, I do have a few pictures of the linkage hook up and the bottom of the cowling. I use a small rubber grommet to go through the cowling instead of just a bare hole. This just makes for a cleaner install.

The throttle is installed with a ball link on the servo side and a z bend on the carb side.


Ok so its not uploading my pictures right. Send me your email Tom and I will send you over the pictures. I will try later to upload them on the forum as well.

Tom

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Old 11-23-2010, 08:43 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Hey BOYZ....

Sorry for being away for so long.... When it rained.. holy crap it poured.. but sunshine is coming... Taking care of business took longer than I expected. I have been gone from here for far too long and I do apologize to all of you. There has been little time for anything else... There is a lot of stuff happening on the blogs that I will eventually get into and start commenting on shortly....

BUT BUT BUT.. in-spite of this.... How about a great announcement...

RC Aero Products has (is) partnering up with Xoar International (aka Bob's Hobby Hangar).

Steve Thomas (Mr. Xoar) and I have been working together for a long time now and we have developed a great working relationship. Our warehouse is located at his place. It has proven to be a win/win for both of us. Steve is an outstanding individual who is among one of the most knowledgeable and successful guys in the hobby business. Steve owns and runs Bob's Hobby Hangar, and XOAR International, plus a couple of others too. He is a BUSY person. He is one hell of an accomplished pilot. He is and continues to be one of the top fliers at Top Gun too. His building skills are as good as his flying skills. He and I have spent many pleasant hours in his work shop, and I am looking forward to spending many many more.

Steve will be assuming all responsibility for the RC Aero Product line up, and of course all of his products too. Sales will still be going through RC Aero Products web site and expanding to other sales networks too. I am stepping away from the day to day tasks but assuming a bigger role in the technical aspects. The decision was made in order to expand the product line and scope of influence. Steve is more than capable of accomplishing this.

Future plans for us includes manufacturing too. I am working on this with Steve Thomas and the great people and organization that he has and when the time is right the announcements for this will be made.

Cheers to all (and please forgive me for my absents)



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Old 11-23-2010, 08:52 PM
  #1571
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Henry glad to see you on the board. I feel this will be a great move for the company. I know you are a very busy man. Hope all is well and we will see you soon to do some flying.

Tom
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Thanks Tom

There has been a lot of behind the scenes action going on. Actually too much.... When you have other business aspects to take care of... well... put it this way... the prioritizing is the toughest part. Time has not been a friend either. I am very pleased that Steve and I have joined forces. His skills and business sense are incredible.

I have a lot of catching up to do with the blogs too. I just have not had to time to get on over the last 4 weeks and I feel terrible about it. But things are getting back into perspective. It is interesting though on the comments that I have been scanning through quickly......

Henry



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Old 11-23-2010, 11:07 PM
  #1573
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Hey Michel. You are showing your age. Anyone that recognizes that old saw has to be at least my age.

Tom PM Sent.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:14 PM
  #1574
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Gee Henry You just can't stand not having a Steve for a partner.[sm=lol.gif]

I met Steve twice. Once at Toledo and once at Joe Nall. He seams to be a nice guy. But is he as funny as the other Steve?
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:01 AM
  #1575
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Hey Henry welcome back!!! I'm glad things are working out finally for you! I too think your new plan sounds
like a good one and look forward to dealing with Steve. I already use zoar props so I suppose I have already
done business with him in a round about way as our LHS carries the Zoar Propellers!

I know you are going to announce some new things but can you tell us about your plans for the 23, 38 and
the 60cc engines sizes and some kind of a educated guess on a time frame on availability?

Thanks Henry!

PS I would like to wish everyone a safe and a Happy Thanksgiving!!!
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