Bonified Wingnut

gkamysz- Thanks for the PDF
All search engines have problems, even Google and Yahoo. I could have looked a bit longer. But these forums are interactive, not an archive. I can't go to Google and ask for a human brain to sort it for me. Sticky's are good but you can only have so many before you need a sticky search engine. Nothing compares to a human brain.

As far as the oil ratio's go I thought that maybe there was a performance issue in hand, so far I see none. Sometimes I fly planes a little underpowered and 400-600 rpms would make a difference. Sometimes I would even be willing to sacrifice 50% of the engine life for it. So far though I here nothing worth trying. Just because I have 2% less smudge, or clean my plugs more often, maybe pull a head more often to clean out some carbon, that dosen't sound like much of a benifit. I just thought that there was more to it.
I used to work for a guy that sold something called Q-45(I think). It was suppose to have PTFE in it and supposedly would coat the engine with Teflon. They used to run small Briggs and Stratton engines that had a plexiglass panel in the crankcase without oil. One of there selling points was that if your car ran out of oil it wouldn't hurt it. Supposedly it also improved performance with the Teflon On Teflon coating producing less friction. It sold for like $40.00 a quart back in the 1980's. I never saw a dang think that it did that was worth buying it for. I am sure that it had it's benefits but it just wasn't enough to see without a gimmick.
Oil injection for a RC engine, nah just one more pain. A two stroke with a pressurized oiling system- that would be a winner.

Carpilot thanks for that update on the octane. I did find a recent thread of your discussion. I figured as much, and unless I start milling heads on my RC engines I shouldn't need it.

Next search "tuned exhaust". Now I know that helps-just got to find out how much and if it's worth it. I sure need to renew my subscription to Model Airplane News.

I do appreciate all of the help I get here on RCU, sometimes the things people do make no sense other than to say they did it. So I have to ask if it was worth it.-BW

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

About 30 discussions about octane too. Short version; if your engine has a compression ratio 8.2-1 or lower, use regular. Above 8.2-1, use premium. I'm not even going to start talks about ultra low octane fuels.

JOHNS3D

My Feedback: (5)

Bonofied, you said you spent hours and hours reading....just CALL JODY and for sure you will learn from him more things in about 30 min that 50 hours of reading.

Bonified Wingnut

I believe you. I don't get much from the people I fly with because I don't think there is 7 or 8 of us. I fly at a place that used to have a club, but they moved to a spot about 20 miles away. The field is owned by the county so it is still taken care of by them. One of the guys that flys mows it twice a week during the summer. It is nice to have a field almost to yourself, but I get almost no feedback.
I don't drive so for me to get somewhere and sit and talk planes with somebody is almost non existent. I had to teach myself to fly and everything I learned I did it here at RCU. When you guys talk about a crowded club with 200-300 members, I envy you.
I went to one Big Bird fly in last year and it was so windy hardly anybody flew. I had a blast anyway.
I don't want to sound like I am pouting about something because I aint. When I got into this hobby I knew it was gonna take a lot of work and some sacrifices to do it on my own. If I have to look stupid once in awhile, so be it.
There are a couple of other clubs around here but I have yet to run across one of the members ere on RCU.
Thanks Tired Old Man for the short version. I have plenty of time for the long version but it gives me the opportunity to move on to the next thing I want to learn about. I live on a farm and I have run two stroke engines all of my life, I couldn't understand why these RC engines were getting treated different. I plan to check out turbines in a year or two, I just hope I don't have to teach myself that also.
-BW

Starfighter

My Feedback: (78)

Hi Bonofied, I'm Starfighter.

I rarely respond to these anymore, as with TOM, the resultant "challenges" to well intentioned absolutely accurate information offered in response to ques. here @RCU got to be bothersome. (No, I would never "ice" out a newbie who has many ques., as neither would TOM.)

Just so you understand where I'm coming from: Flying R/C for 47yrs. (from escapements to reeds to early propo then digital), modeler for 50+yrs.(started with controline w/.049s. as a child). Vietnam era to ODS(Operation Desert Storm[didn't go to ODS, but recalled for a temp. period at onset of conflict]) with background in B-52, C-141 and C-5A acft.(but wanted the "Starfighter").

Been flying gas engines since late 70's, and the engines avail. then required 25 to 32 /1 ratios to run properly w/o overheating/seizing. I once thought to run a Magnum 2.4 engine (really a Homelite XL-150 chainsaw engine) on "Optimol" following the advice of a so-called "expert" on oil ratios I knew at the time, even though the mfr. recommended 32/1 after breakin. This was a pre-pack of I believe a 100/1 ratio synthetic oil. Well, the engine ran, but not for long before it seized from too little oil, and my oil "expert" friend refused to accept that it was the lack of oil which caused the mess. The rebuilt engine ran fine, but I learned a lesson that I already knew.

You see, as others have written, not only does the oil lubricate the internals of the engine, but it contributes to the combustion seal of the ring(s), as wel as greatly contributes to the cooling of the engins as it takes the heat with it as it is exhausted from the engine. Too much of a good thing is bad too, so you don't want to run overly rich oil ratios either. This cause carbon build up and fouled plugs.

It was hinted at in an earlier reply that one of the engine mfrs. who promoted the use of Amsoil now advises much richer oil ratios for use in their engines. Well, I'll identify who they are: it is DA Engines. Yes, DA Engines.

As for myself, I run 3W, Sachs, Fuji, DL and gas converted Supertigre, plus a couple of glows (120s). I always breakin the gas @ 30/32 to 1 and then operate them @ 50 to 1 using BelRay S2. I don't use synthetics anymore, as the BelRay burns PERFECT w/o any form of hard carbon deposit to the engine internals. I've never had any problems with any of my engines I've operated this way (except the Supertigre, this needs 11% oil in fuel). Also, there is not any real "Mess" to clean up from the bottom of the acft. either when running 50/1. (Don't know where the claim that 50/1 makes a "mess" on the acft, or for that matter 32/1 as well. The cleanup IS minimal and not slimy like castor residue.)

So, please excuse my missive, but I had to get in my 2 cents on this issue. Bottom line; don't run 100/1 unless you are really expert at carb tuning, and you have an understanding of airflow dynamics that ensures you have made optimum air intake/exhaust through your cowling to insure proper engine coolig air intake/exhaust as well.

Good luck, and I wish that all of your flying days are CAVU.
Regards,
Starfighter

Bonified Wingnut

Starfighter I think what it boils down to is that no matter what the friction reducing abilities of a substance are, it is a good thing to have a certain amout of fluid passing through an engine for various purposes, including cooling. Thanks.-BW

ggraham500

My Feedback: (4)

Curiously, Desert Aircraft says to use a good synthetic oil like AMSOIL at 1:100 on their engines after break-in (2-4 gallons of gasolene). All the others are between 32:1 and 40:1 using Pennzoil 2 cycle Air cooled engine oil.

Ideas?

spaceworm

Do you mean you don't want to talk about Coleman fuel? Sorry, I had to do that.

Best regards,

SPACEWORM

WRK

My Feedback: (2)

I have a close friend that runs Amsoil 100 to one, he flies IMAC and practices a LOT, burns over 55 gallons of gas a season and he has never had any problems with his and DA 150, so I would guess Amsoil is not too bad. That said seems a lot of guys are using Pennzoil these days, I am still using 100 to one Amsoil with no problems.

Bonified Wingnut

Having "No Problems" is fine, but the question was "Is there a benifit"?

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

I think DA has now gone to recommending Redline oil at 50 to 1.

AV8TOR

ggraham500

My Feedback: (4)

per DA 50-R manual
(http://www.desertaircraft.com/engine...p?Page=DA-50-R)

"Low to Mid octane pump gas is recommended. High octane may be beneficial only
when using tuned exhaust systems.

We recommend filtering your fuel between your fuel container and your plane’s fuel
tank. A high flow filter, or clunk/filter, between the tank and motor is also a good idea.

Make sure the plane’s tank is well vented and the fuel clunk mover freely.

Use of any other fuel or additives such as methanol, nitro formulas, aviation gas,
white gas, etc., can harm the motor and will void the warranty.

Do not use any silicon sealers on the fuel system. Gas can break it down and carry it
into the carburetor.

For Break-in, we recommend a petroleum-based oil such as Lawn Boy Ashless or
Pennzoil Air Cooled 2 stroke oil at 32:1 ratio. Run at least 2 to 4 gallons of petroleum
oil/gas mix for break-in. This allows the rings to seat quickly without blow by. Use a
prop that allows peak RPM over 6.500 during the break-in process. Set the High
needle slightly rich during break-in.

After the break-in process, we recommend a high quality synthetic oil. As for brand
of oil, there are many good ones on the market. Some oils, and their mix ratios, that
Desert Aircraft recommends are: Amsoil 100:1 Pre-Mix (100 to 1), Amsoil Saber
Professional (100 to 1), Amsoil 2000 (50 to 1), Red-line (40 to 1), Bel-Ray H1-R (50 to 1).
Mobil MX2T (32 to 1) These oils can be found at most motorcycle shops.

spaceworm

I think what EVERyONE is saying is: Use whatever you are comfortable with. If you think there might be a waranty issue then use only that which is recommended by the MFR. Unless you are racing or running WFO all the time, (or maybe even if you are) I don't think it really matters as long as the oil is a good quality 2 stroke air cooled engine oil. But, I think it takes a lot of attention and dedication as well as a good sense of tuning exactly right to use a 100:1 oil when there is no reason proven to do so. DA even offers alternatives to 100:1 in recommending other oils at 50:1 and 40:1. Why take a chance, unless you like buying engines because your oil volume was a little less than prescribed and you burned you engine up.

How about we stop beating this dead horse?

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

bummer u have to click on the 2nd pic

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I have been using Amsoil 100:1 for nearly a decade. I appreciate the much reduced mess of exhaust oil getting all over everything. That's why I use it and with no regrets.


Ed Cregger

Bonified Wingnut

I really appreciate all of the reples to this question. So far the only benifit I have seen is as NM2K has said "reduced mess". Lets end this thread.-BW

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I run DA's on an industrial level. Meaning they get run hard. Don't do the Amsoil. The Redline and Stihl HP Ultra at 50-1 work a whole heck of a lot better. Not having any problems yet and never having a problem are two completely different things. Ever blow up a DA, and I mean blow up, and tried to obtain any of that exalted customer service? Fair warning, don't.

A 100 to 150cc engine that has gone through 55 gallons of gas has only run about 78 hours. Tear it down at 100 or 150 and tell us what you see after running Amsoil all that time. Take pictures so we might beieve you. I prefer to obtain 400 hours or more from my engines.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I don't fly professionally and don't want to. Model airplanes are a hobby for me, not a lifestyle. I buy cheap Chinese engines because they are "disposable" in my mind. If I get a season or two out of a $300 engine that burns inexpensive gasoline and does the job that I bought it for, well, I'm satisfied. I'll be lucky to put 50 hours on any of my gassers in our lifetimes.

While I love model airplanes as a hobby, I passed through the live/sleep/breathe it phase long ago. I feel sorry for those that are still passing through that stage currently. As if life wasn't tough enough, at times. T.O.M. has forgotten more than I'll ever know about gas engines. But I finally learned how to relax and enjoy the hobby and I'm stickin' to it.

Additionally, I actually have other hobbies, such as ham radio, motorcycles, writing/reading fiction and non fiction, pets, writing/playing/recording music, etc. I have no need for an elitist engine/radio/airplane in this late stage of my life. Yeah, I used to be a top notch modeler (one that prefers top notch hobby products). Gung-Ho for certain brands that were made in certain countries. Blah-blah-blah. BTDT. Not for me any longer. When I run out of my present two quart supply of Amsoil, I'll probably go back to burning Wal-Mart's cheapest that meets the engine manufacturers specs. Natural or synthetic. I really don't care. All of you folks that like to worry yourself into having an ulcer, you just go ahead and have your way.

Wait... NCIS is on!! I love Ziva David (sweet-cheeks)!!!


Ed Cregger

Carpilot

As only RCU can deliver, this thread has turned into nothing more than a bunch of opinions and anecdotal stories flying around, if the rest of you want to keep it going knock yourselves out, but I'm outta here.

Bonified Wingnut

Me too. Sorry, I really thought there was more to it. This will be the first time I have Unsubscribed from my own thread.-BW

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Okay, here's what I'll do. When I see your names authoring a post, I won't comment in that article. That's the best that I can do. How's that? Just keep in mind that I'm old and have a bad memory, so I may forget now and then.

I don't want to run anyone off of RCU.


Ed

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

No worries Ed. I'm other places most of the time now anyway. I think we share similar attitudes about the overall importance of this hobby. I'd rather hang where some good can be accomplished instead of debating with brand name zealots and others that don't have a clue. There are adult RC forums where you even get to argue politics without moderator intervention. Makes things fun, enlightening, and interesting.

WRK

My Feedback: (2)

The DA 150 I talked about has had 55 or more galons run through it for 4 years now and still no problems.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Wait until you find out that all of that horse manure spouting from the lips of our illustrious college professors is just more of the same. Trust your own experiences (anecdotes) and damned little else.

Ralph Cunningham convinced me to switch to Pennzoil Air Cooled two-stroke natural oil, but they stopped offering it for sale. Besides, what kind of a tightwad would I be if I could just throw away two quarts of Amsoil 100:1 oil? Well, not two quarts. One bottled is half used up. No, it wasn't my first quart.

My first paragraph of this reply was intended for those young'uns that are threatening to leave because everything isn't typed out just for them in the style in which they want it. At least that's the impression that I'm getting.

Many years ago (yeah, the old man's at it again) I learned that the best information to be had on any subject was usually to be found by simply listening intently and straining hard to assemble bits and pieces of facts uttering from the mouths of old folks. People do change, you know. What may look and sound like an old fool today could once have been a very keen competitor, just like you today, at one time in his/her life. Insisting that all good information be presented in "your" format is a good way to miss the best info available in the world. But, it is your life. Do as you wish...


Ed Cregger

arobatx

[sm=thumbs_up.gif] well said Ed! Two very valid points being made here: one, that this hobby needs to remain enjoyable, whatever level or phase you may be at, and respect those that may be at a different point in the journey than you. two, that some of our hobby population will never put the number of hours on a gas engine to quantify any of the results we're posting regarding extensive testing and experience. Research to your own personal limits, acknowledge a level at which you participate in this hobby, or this particular topic, and choose accordingly.