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  1. #76
    reyn3545's Avatar
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Nice... and thanks for sharing.

    Update on my motor problem... I sent the motor back to Horizon, and they replaced the carb. Now both motors are turning at just over 9000 RPM with the 3-blade props. Just a little more finishing work on the plane, and we'll be ready to fly.
    Waco Brotherhood # 153

  2. #77
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!


    ORIGINAL: Steven Chen

    Spitfire with Saito FG 14
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5_I8QvGbFc[/youtube]
    Could you please re-post that without the woman YELLING? We are seriously trying to evaluate the Saito gas engine's performance.

    We cannot hear the engine. Hearing the engine is what it is all about. Without the engine sound the video is worthless.

    Music has nothing to do with a model airplane flying anyway.

    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  3. #78

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    I say AMEN to what w8ye is saying I am sick to death of good videos ruined by too much of the wrong type of music. Please let us hear the engine, we don't care for the juvenile music .......... RJ

  4. #79

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    FW 190 with Sait0 FG 14
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF9Z6HC589I[/youtube]

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0VaQdN1JhU[/youtube]

    FG 14 Low-speed
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBj0zmu46oU[/youtube]
    FG 14 High-speed
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibxOFtS3VlY[/youtube]

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnknYkCkrZs[/youtube]


  5. #80
    reyn3545's Avatar
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Are those low and high speed numbers off by a factor of 10?
    Waco Brotherhood # 153

  6. #81
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Looks like you are using a RCEXL ignition instead of the Saito ignition?

    What prop are you running?

    I appreciate the good videos for getting to see and hear your engine
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  7. #82

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    I still haven't got mine right yet in a Pulse 60. I've been flying the plane a fair bit, but the engine is rough/misses throughout its range. The engine is, so far,reliable and powerful enough for the plane, but I get a bit embarrased about what everyone must be saying/thinking - 'That's too rich, why dosn't he fix it)'. I know from experience that one or twoclicksleaner on the high enddoes not help much and risks a dead stick. The low endis fine at idle and transition.I've been working through the possible faults one by one and am satisfied that my fueling and propare OK.

    I'll try a new spark plug next. If that fails it must be the ignition or carby (latter rebuilt by the LHS following a prang). I had to replace the Hall Sensor and assume that this is located dead centre. I could try moving the sensor around a little to advance or retard the ignition, but can't see ahy this would make a difference. I'm reluctant to take the carby back to my LHS because they fixed it for free (I had to get a new carby body which took a long time - anything to keep us on the Saito drip line and away from the Chinese clones!), but can't help think that maybe they didn't reassemble it correctly. However, I can't think of any way to confirm whether or not the carby is at fault (as opposed to anything else).

  8. #83

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Steven's Fg14 has been running about 6 hours (2-2.5 hours on test stand + 15 x 10 minute flights on Me109 and 15 x10 flights on spitfire).

    He was using orignial CDI on test stand and the frist 15 flights, and then we found that plug cap was damaged.
    Since SAITO did not supply this replacement parts(plug cap), that is why he had to shift to RCCDI.

    The original SAITO CDI is using a very special cap resistor and a tiny spring, so it is two contact points inside the plug cap.
    They make it so tight with plug, you will always put too much force on the ignition cord when you need to pull off. When ever you find the black heat shrink tube become lose, it mostly indicate you are about to say good bye to your CDI. Once it lose the high voltage cord will slip out, and it will be insufficient presure between contacts inside the plug cap.

    He is using APC 13x8 (9000rpm) on the spitfire.


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  9. #84
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!


    ORIGINAL: hyltaiwan

    Steven's Fg14 has been running about 6 hours (2-2.5 hours on test stand + 15 x 10 minute flights on Me109 and 15 x10 flights on spitfire).

    He was using orignial CDI on tset satand and the frist 15 flights, and then we found that plug cap was damaged.
    Since SAITO did not supply this replacement parts(plug cap), that is why he had to shift to RCCDI.

    The original SAITO CDI is using a very special cap resistor, so it is two contact points inside the plug cap.
    They make it so tight with plug, you will always put too much foce on the ignition cord. When ever you find the black heat shrink tube become lose, it mostly indicate you are about to say go bye to your CDI. Once it lose the high votage cord will slip out, and it will be
    insufficient presure between contacts inside the plug cap.

    He is using APC 13x8 (9000rpm) on the spitfire.
    Thanks for the good engine videos and the very informative follow ups.

    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  10. #85

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    How are people going with this engine? Mine is getting better and better with more run time, but still runs rough.

    I've got about 120 minutes air time in a Pulse 60. The engine is a perfect fit for this plane and drives it with authority. Vertical is good, but not unlimited. I think my tuning is just about OK as I haven't had a dead stick for the last dozen or so flights.

    The start (always first spin) and idle is perfect on mine. The fuel economy is outstanding. It will idle happily away for another 5 minutes once I've emptied the tank just on the dregs. A litre of petrol will over 2 hours flying time (for me, about 12 flights of about 10 minutes each).

    I'm gradually getting more power, but still have uneven running from anything above idle to WOT. I think the fueling and tuning is just about right in that the engine sound doesn't hesitate in rolls, spins, inverted loops, steep dives or any other manouvere - it just keeps running rough, but shows no tendency to stall.

    It might be the ignition. I've still got the original Saito ignition unit, but am reluctant to buy a new one unless I'm sure it will make the difference between rough running and perfect running. In the meantime, I'll keep flying it rough. Maybe it will keep getting incrementally better as I keep flying.


  11. #86
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    reyn3545 / FG-14b owners
    Are you still happy with motors? I'm thinking about picking 1 of these up this weekend.
    thanks
    Kris
    RC Hobby..... ($100.00 foamie = toy, $20,000.00 jet = toy)

  12. #87

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    I've got about 4 hours run time on mine, and probably about 30 flights.

    I'm pretty happy with mine now. It starts easily, runs reliably and just sips the fuel. It is still not 100% on WOT, but still seems to be improving and getting more responsive to fine tuning.

    I figure that I need about 40 hours run time before I start getting ahead on fuel costs, compared to an equivalent nitro 4 stroke.  It is good to get away from paying over $11 AUST per litre of nitro fuel (compared to $1 per litre of petrol which goes twice as far as well)!

    My observations are that it will take about 4 hours run time for the engine to be fully run in. Do not expect to get it running perfectly straight away. It will improve with age. Tuning can be a pain, but with an upright mount position (as for a Pulse 60), both idle and high speed needles are easy to get at and adjust while the engine is running, meaing you can get it into the ball park fairly easily, and running reliably when you point the nose of the plane straight up. Concentrate on getting it running reliably (eg not quitting in the air) at first, rather than running perfectly from day on.

    With good tuning, the exhaust has next to no smell. When rich, it will smell a bit oily. When too lean, it will eventually stutter and quit.

  13. #88
    reyn3545's Avatar
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    I still haven't gotten my plane off the ground... motors are running great, but I just haven't finished up the little things like retracts and gear doors. I do start and run them from time to time, and they seem to be performing well. I did re-route myk fuel lines a little. I had 3-line setups, but I would up having to force gas into the carb to get it started (motor is inverted). So, I switched to a 2-line setup, The filler tube now goes into a T in the line between the fuel tank and the carb. So, when I fuel up, it forces fuel into the carb. I spill a few drops with every fillup, and draining the tank at the end of the day takes a little longer, but the motors both start up immediately.

    I would agree with the previous poster, it takes a while, eihter on a test stand or in the air, to get these motors dialed in and running smoothly. Don't worry about getting it perfect for the first gallon or so, just get it dependable, and let it break in.
    Waco Brotherhood # 153

  14. #89
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    reyn3545 and MercerAUST
    Thanks for the great information/thoughts on these motors
    RC Hobby..... ($100.00 foamie = toy, $20,000.00 jet = toy)

  15. #90

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    I spent about on hour on the weekend just landing, tuning, testing in flight, landing, tuning etc, and feel that I have finally got the engine just about right.

    One thing I discovered is that if you have the idle on the lean side (eg idling reliably, but as lean as you can reasonably go), you have to run the high end rich. If you run the idle on the rich side, you can go leaner on the top end, by as much as half to three quarters of a full revolution. The latter is preferable and gets you closer to smooth running.

    The idle is a bit tricky to adjust. You can do it while the engine is running, but just putting slight pressure on the screw for adjustment will cause the idle to rise and it doesn't necessarily settle out properly in the new setting once the pressure is released (eg it is hard to tell what, if any difference you have made without a restart).

    Anyway, while my engine was 100% reliable, it did not run smoothly at any throttle setting above idle. My idle was on the leanish side meaning that my high end was on the rich side. Following my tuning session, my low needle is now on the rich side (as rich as I can go while still retaining an even and reliable idle) and I have been able to lean out my top end by over half a revolution. The roughness is now gone.

    In all this, I have to confirm that the engine is hard to tune to get it absolutely 100%, but it is pretty easy to tune it to get it to run reliably. Run it for at least 4 hours in the air before attempting to fine tune the roughness and misses out of it. If you are a perfectionist, and expect to get it running without missing a beat on your first flight, this engine will drive you crazy. But if you are prepared to accept that you won't get it perfect for awhile, you will end up with a good engine (my view).

  16. #91

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Have read through this forum and think I might go this route on my GP Stuka! I just have one question. Is there a Pitts muffler available for this engine. I want to keep cowl cutting to a minimum.
    Thanks Mike
    Michael.M Waco brother #187

    P-47 Brotherhood #22

    And Certified Warbird Nut

  17. #92

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    I purchased the FG-14 and am now tring to break in on an engine stand... I get it to start but will only idle... i can not get it to run above an idle... The motor sputters and dies when I increase the throttle.... What am I doning wrong???

  18. #93
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    The mixture is too lean
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
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    Original AMA #31261

  19. #94

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Already tried to adjust the high idle... Could it be with the low or too small / large fuel line??? I'm grasping at straws I know.... Using 6V 1700 battery.

  20. #95

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Try to richen the low end needle by half a turn at a time to see if this makes a difference. You might also need to lean out the high needle a bit.

    Check to see if your fueling set up is right and there are no air links and the fuel tank can take in air freely as the fuel is drawn. You must run the fuel set up similar to a nitro (close to the centre line and no more than 4 - 6 inches of fuel line).

    Are you running the engine inverted? If so, try and tune right side up first.

  21. #96

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Rght now I am running upright on a test stand. Fuel tank is level with the carb and line is about 5-6 in. Breather vent line open and above tank. I can get it started and will idle as long as I want... When I increase the throttle it stumbles and dies every time... I have not been able to get to trottle wide open yet..... battery is 1700 6V... New gas at correct 20:1 mix,,,, Have yet to adjust the low settings.

  22. #97

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Try the low settings, half a turn at a time richer (clockwise). It should respond. If it does not, set both needles to the recommended default (make sure you are using the American instructions (available at Horizon Hobby website) and not the original Japanese translation (where the number is incorrect).

    If this does not work and you have checked the spark plug gap, fueling is good (try blowing gently down the breather vent line to increase tank pressure and open the throttle to see if this works) then it might be the ignition/timing. This seems unlikely if it starts OK.  

  23. #98
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    ORIGINAL: w8ye

    These holes may be intended for the Saito 82B glow engine?

    Does the Saito fg 14 have the same case as the Saito 82 glow? I thought about one time getting a 14 gas but opted for the .82 glow because its what I know best. I was just wondering if at one point in time I wanted to switch engines to the fg-14, will it fit in the same engine mount bolt hole pattern as the .82?
    WACO Brotherhood #166/ Cub Brotherhood #16
    1/2 Scale Stits Sky Baby Brotherhood #1

  24. #99
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Yes the FG14 and the Saito 82 share the same crankcase casting but the FG-14 has two holes drilled and tapped in the the lower side of the front bearing boss for the timing sensor.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  25. #100

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    RE: Saito - Pro FG 14 Tips and tricks only!!!

    Hi All,
    I have a FG-14 engine with 4 liters (a little more than one gallon) of gas running through it. This is my first and only gas engine.
    Although the engine runs great, it seems that it doesn’t have any compression at all.
    I have several other four stroke glow engines with much more running time and they all have excellent compression.
    In my FG-14, I can turn the prop with my fingers and it is like the spark plug was removed.
    As I said before, the engine has good idle, good transition and good high speed (about 9000 rpm on a 13 x 8 propeller).
    This is intriguing for me.
    Is this normal for any gas engine? Or, is this normal for 4 strokes gas engines? Or, is this normal for SAITO four stroke gas engines?



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