Antique

My Feedback: (4)

Somebody want to point me to a scientific study about abrasives in Lawn Boy Oil ?
No manufacturer in his right mind would intentionally put abrasives in oil..For ANY reason...
C'mon, MYTHsters, let's see it..
"heard" from someone on a forum doesn't get it, let's see PROOF...

http://www.dansmc.com/2stroke_oil.htm
A little off this topic, but I told ya so [>:]

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

two stroke oil must have a much lower ash content. This is required to minimize deposits that tend to form if ash is present in the oil which is burned in the engine's combustion chamber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_oil

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

so that says ashless is better.
Less ash, less deposits...Lawn Boy is ASHless.....NO ash...
So where's the abrasive ?
You can't seriously believe there is actual abrasive in the oil ....
"The presence or absence of the ashless dispersant package does not in any way affect the oil’s ability to retard or promote the seating of the piston rings to the cylinder walls."
Taken from a full size aircraft engine repair station...

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

10-12 years ago, all the gas guys could not say enough good things about Lawnboy ashless

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Pennzoil Aircooled is rated low ash

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Ash by itself is an abrasive so the addition of ash or failure to remove it would be counter productive. OTH, numerous experiences with Lawnboy indicated it generates higher levels of residual carbon which is retained in the engine. Carbon is an abrasive once created.

I can not understand why someone would state that an oil has abrasive added.

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

To counter the buildup of carbon, oil manufacturers used to add "detergents" (organic molecules with heavy metal components - usually zinc, calcium, magnesium...) to flush away the carbon.

The detergents unfortunately burn to become "ash". Therefore some oils use an "ashless dispersant", typically an organic nitrogen compound like Hydrazine. Unfortunately these ashless dispersants can lead to accelerated carbon deposits, especially on the first ring groove.

The term "ashless" in my understanding simply means the oil has no heavy-metal detergents in it. The "Low Ash" oils have a small amount of dispersant or metallic detergent additives and so flush out most of the carbon and leave a small amount of ash. Low-ash dispersants contain calcium or magnesium, and can form a heavy metal salt.

Complicated enough? The point is the oil itself doesn't have an "abrasive" ADDED to it, nobody would do that! The problem is the detergents, when burned, can become abrasive. Over time the carbon buildup can also become abrasive. It is a balancing act.

Personally I won't even use Lawnboy in my $62 string trimmer, let alone in a very expensive engine. It runs much better on Honda HP-2, Stihl Ultra, Belray, Pennzoil, or whatever else I had left over in my airplane fuel can.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

This is where some of the high end racing oils come into play. They were blended without, or with minimal detergents because the intended users often tear down their engines between races for inspection, maintenance, and modification. This is one reason why there is no one "best" oil.

tryan02

ash?

pe reivers

Briggs & Stratton is clouding the issue!
The point is, that there are no "abrasives" in oil. The oil is there to avoid abrasive action by token of separating all moving parts. This is done using an oil film that is not easily broken, and that is thick enough to prevent metal to metal contact. This task is better accomplished in synthetic (or "synthetic blends" ) than in low quality mineral oils. Lawn boy is not a high end oil, so will not prevent metal to metal contact in poorly finished engines.
This helps in running in by wearing off particles that stand in the way of smooth running. The same wearing off is accomplished by synthetic oils, but it takes a lot more time.
The extra wear can be called abrasive action, but it should not be called abrasives in the oil!!!!.
I would rather not have the extra wear in a new engine. It subtracts from total engine life. My choice would be a longer time needed to properly run in the engine. If it takes 5 running hours to do so instead of two, so be it.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Pe,

You are one of the few that truly understand. The rest simply say because, insert engine manufacturer here, says to do it that way. Others blurt out, "but it takes longer to break in with a synthetic", or my favorite, an engine "never gets broken in using a synthetic". How little they know and understand.

spaceworm

[quote]ORIGINAL: BTerry



...Complicated enough? The point is the oil itself doesn't have an ''abrasive'' ADDED to it, nobody would do that! ..."

Someone WILL correct me if I am wrong, but I think Duke Fox and or Clarence Lee used to add a bit of very fne abrasive in the intake of engines to accelerate their break-in process for testing and magazine review. This was not added to the oil, but direct into the intake while the engine was running. Anyone else recall this?

closetguy

My Feedback: (13)

when you get a new engine from china,they call it grinding in a engine, in the instructions.
different strokes for different folks.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I do recall Clarence Lee mentioning this years back, along with hand lapping pistons and rings with toothpaste or baking soda. All glow engines btw. Those that prefer to "grind" in their engines have more money to spare than I do while making consistent power all the way. I want mine to last many years, not one or two with a rapid decline in output.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Back 40 years ago I bought a new C/L Stunt engine from George Aldrich.

When it came, I took the engine apart to see what was different about a George Aldrich Engine.

The bushing was full of fine Clover Valve Grinding Compound.

I removed the valve grinding compound and sold the engine.

wesaysoracing

was it lustrox or garnett , i think that was the 2 different products, one was used on a running engine and the other was for hand lapping

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Clover Lapping compound is a dark gray (almost black) color. I always thought of it as carborundum (silicon carbide). It is not easy going stuff. The grades available at the auto parts (is usually 240 grit for the finest) is too harsh for a model engine in my opinion. Clover is available in much finer grades but is usually not seen at the auto parts store. It is not a polishing compound but a lapping compound.

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

yup, and all those engines had cast iron (mehanite) pistons and steel liners, with poor tolerances. Just imagine what that rubbing compound did to the bushings!

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

The Fox product was called LUSTROX.. Instructions said to put a small dab on the edge of the intake...when the oil coming out of the exhaust was no longer black the engine was broken in...
Clover can be bought in 2000 grade grit, almost hard to even feel the roughness...

Rocketman_

You are correct. For a long time most of my engines were Fox engines and I can remember seeing the white residue in the intake. Those engines served me well and I put a whole lot of time on them.

While in the Air Force I entered a Midwest Esquire in single channel radio control at the 1962 PACAF contest in Japan. Johnny Brodbeck of K&B Engines and Bob Dunham of Orbit Radio Control were there to demo the K&B .45 with its new electrolyzed piston and Orbit's reed radio system in an Astro Hog. Bob Dunham was a great pilot but he was having repeated dead sticks because the engine kept seizing. Johnny Brodbeck, in his frustration, sat down in the dirt and disassembled the engine and I personally watched him pick up some dirt and scrub the inside of the cylinder with a fuel soaked rag and then he worked the piston around in there. Well, it didn't appear to hurt the engine but it still wasn't broken in and they had to set it very rich to keep it running.

jc654

It took a while to become a proficient machinist. It took more time to master a machine.
It took America a long time to adopt robotic machining.
Hence, there were Monday and Friday products.
It was generally accepted that there was to be a extensive break-in.

Products and oils a have greatly improved.

I always find it amazing how bad or out of tolerance a piston engine can be and still function.