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DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Old 03-07-2011, 05:57 PM
  #3226
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I agree.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:13 PM
  #3227
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Antique \ Jedijody -

Are you saying this high-idle problem may be caused by this version (4?) of the Rcexl ignition? Are there other problems that warrent buying a new EI? So far this is the only issue I've seen, and the first time hearing of a recommendation to get a different EI for this engine. And, if so, where can we find this version 1? I didn't see any other versions on the Rcexl site.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:17 PM
  #3228
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Hi Guys

I finally got my new DLE 20cc engine.  Are most of you using the recommended Dubro anti vibration mount?  Could I use Great Planes adjustable composite mount in the 1.08-1.8 size?  I do not remember seeing any information on this in the earlier discussions, unless I missed it.  For you experienced gassers, how critical is the vibration issue? 

Thanks in advance,
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:36 PM
  #3229
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Many of you may not like hearing this but it's the truth, the main reason for the special timing in the DLE20 and DLE30 modules is to get them to idle at ridiculous and unnecessarily low RPMs. I believe it was done due to many users being new to gas and inexperienced at tuning small, or even tiny gas engines and not having the patience or experience needed to properly tune a gas engine. The special timing allows even a poorly tuned engine to idle at 1500 RPM.

For some time now the modules have not been acting like the original ones did, instead of advancing the timing in 4 or 5 increments they will dump all the advance in at once at about 2500 RPM, the RPM then jumps about 500 RPM like you flipped a switch. Conversely it does the same thing only dropping 500 RPM coming down on the throttle at about 3000 RPM. 3000 RPM is hardly a landing speed so I doubt this is causing the problem but it's possible. Also, the RPM doesn't just hang there and come down slowly on it's own, when you pass the threshold RPM, the timing and RPM changes instantly by about 22 degrees and 500 RPM.

The problem for the user, if this is what's causing the problem, is that it's exactly what it's it is supposed to do, there's nothing wrong with it, there's no warranty problem, it's made that way, don't ask me why. Personally I prefer the standard Rcexl module on both the DLE20 and DLE30, with a little patience and know how it's very easy to make them run at 1700 RPM and sometimes less.

Check the tune on your low needles and check the throttle valve position and screw tightness, set your landing idle at 1800 or less on the ground and the timing cannot be a factor in the engine not coming down to idle. If you use a flying idle setting (you should) don't forget to lower it back to the ground idle speed on your down wind leg. Lastly, the engine doesn't know if it's flying or whether the spark plug is pointing to the sky or the ground, heading straight up or straight down, or sitting on the edge of the runway. If the engine runs like a top on the ground yet acts up in the air, there is nothing wrong with it, the problem is not the engine it's either tuning, air flow, fuel system,  or something else in the plane.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:03 AM
  #3230
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


The early Reichmuth 2 sensor ignitions were kinda like this, there was a step just when you didn't want it, coming in for landing..
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:57 AM
  #3231
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gregg660

See posts around 885 page 36.
Yep, and for aa2dd(Bruce), gofast, microdon2, and others, here it is;

Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahicks

The reason it won't come back down onto the idle right away is it's hot. A slightly richer low mixture will let it cool down quicker, like maybe as soon as you close the throttle. Blipping the throttle blows extra fuel and air through the combustion chamber cooling it down. If you could hit the choke for an instant, it would do the same thing.

That really low smooth idle is proof it's too lean. If it's right, it should have a slightly unsteady idle. Hard to describe....
Plus my response back then;

Quote:
ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer

W8YE/Jim,

Excellent tuning tips!
Obviously I need to work on my LS needle settings.

I'd add the following to your routine;
You'll know when your LS needle settings are too lean, when it's tough getting it started!

It's too lean on HS when it flames-out (no amount of excessive oil/fuel mix will protect those).

One &/or both are not right when it stumbles transistioning between low & high.
So, try the above first, before changing out the ign module, or messing with the throttle plate.
IF a proper setting of your mix screws doesn't cure it first, THEN try the other ideas.

Do one thing and check your results. Do NOT try several things at the same time, as you won't know which one fixed it.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:35 AM
  #3232
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Good info on the timing Jodi..thanks. So, when all said and done, run at full for 45 seconds or so after you think you got her, come to quick idle and if it doesnt repond for a bit, it's too lean on the low in a nut shell..wow. Was driving me nuts with my idle down settings, wasn't dying..reponse good.... thought of linkage issues..timing..yada yada..but she came down after a bit..learning is good.
Thanks guys. I'll report back as I get a chance to start fresh with the needles with this in mind.
Greggg (Gas N Go)
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:57 AM
  #3233
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I just finished my second project with a DLE-20. It is a seagull AT-6 75. It weighs in at 10.5 lbs and I am using an SY 16x8 prop. Should do very nicely Here are a few pics. I won't be able to do the maiden fro a while becasue i have to go help my daughter recover from surgery next week and watch the grandkids.[:@]
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:16 AM
  #3234
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I notice you have twins as pilots. Heck they even dress the same! ;^)
Mike MacLean
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:36 AM
  #3235
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Yes you are right and my wife said the same thing! They are Darrell & his other brother Darrell!
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:42 AM
  #3236
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

jstanton

Nice build on the AT-6.  Did you use a silver heat shinkable covering or is it painted?  What engine mount did you use? 

Jon
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:45 AM
  #3237
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

The covering that came on the plane is Ultracote and I used the stock engine mount that came with the plane. I have also built a GP PT-17 with a DLE-20 and I used the stock engine mount with it also and it has held up very well
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:56 PM
  #3238
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

So I opened my DLE 20's LS carb adjustment a bit last night - maybe 1/8 - before screwing the cowl back on my 70" Revolver. Just a guess. This morning went to the field using an APC 15x12. The engine seemed to run well, though finding the right low end throttle setting was tricky - one click up and I'm reving at 1,900-2,000. It would run at 1,700, but then would stall after landing, on roll out. I did eventually find 1,800. The tack readings were about 17-1800 up to 7,900-8,000. The engine sounded smooth in the air - no gurgling. Then I tried an APC 16x7 and the engine gurgled noticeably in the air. Is this typical? I hate to do it, but think I might have to drill a hole in this cowl to get access to the LS and HS adjustments. Is it typical to have to change adjustments when you change prop size?
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:20 PM
  #3239
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)



Quote:
Is it typical to have to change adjustments when you change prop size?
Yep, I think it is.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:32 PM
  #3240
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Also with some prop sizes you may have a midrange gurgle not tune out with the needles
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:41 PM
  #3241
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

wy8e - are you saying some props will produce a mid-range gurgle that's not tune-outable? Should that gurgle then disappear at 3/4 or full throttle?
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:44 PM
  #3242
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

CUT THE COWL MICRO, hahah kidding but honestly I am going to do it on my Revolver.

You just need one small hole to get the screw driver in (don't try to tune it with it running).

Although you rarely have to tune a gasser its good to have access. Also when its breaking in you will have to tune it a little more than usual. If anyone ever sees summer agian you will be doing it as the weather has its changes to. Taking the cowl off can be a PINA.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: microdon2

So I opened my DLE 20's LS carb adjustment a bit last night - maybe 1/8 - before screwing the cowl back on my 70'' Revolver. Just a guess. This morning went to the field using an APC 15x12. The engine seemed to run well, though finding the right low end throttle setting was tricky - one click up and I'm reving at 1,900-2,000. It would run at 1,700, but then would stall after landing, on roll out. I did eventually find 1,800. The tack readings were about 17-1800 up to 7,900-8,000. The engine sounded smooth in the air - no gurgling. Then I tried an APC 16x7 and the engine gurgled noticeably in the air. Is this typical? I hate to do it, but think I might have to drill a hole in this cowl to get access to the LS and HS adjustments. Is it typical to have to change adjustments when you change prop size?
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:31 PM
  #3243
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)



Hi Jody

Think I understand what you are saying. I messed with my settings this morning and i now have it running pretty good. question i have is: when coming in for a landing, with plane dropping altitude, which will also help maintain speed, is it possible for air rushing past the prop to cause a windmilling effect, and for a period of time, cause the timing to remain advanced? that would explain what i have been seeing. I have mine running pretty good now, but in shooting touch and goes, every once in a while it will remain at high idle, but not nearly as bad as it was. I am going to play around with the rate of decent and see if that does make a difference. this carb seems to be very, very, sensitive to needle adjustment and just a touch makes a difference.
,
Please, Don't misunderstand my posts. i am not slamming this engine. I love it! it is a little monster power house, but it tunes differently than my DL-50 and Brison. I am just trying to learn to live with its needs. Are you suggesting a different ignition system would help/make difference?

thanks for the info

Bruce
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:43 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Different props create different loads on the engine. Often times, the gurgle can be a combined function of engine load and mixture at that rpm.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:39 PM
  #3245
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Yes, the lighter the prop load the more mid range burble you will notice, it should be able to be tuned out from about 1/3rd throttle up.

aa2dd,

No one is slamming the DLE20 that I know of and questions like yours are good and expected. The smaller a gas engine gets the more finicky they can be and yes, sometimes sensitive to carb adjustments. Although I don't find the 20 to be overly sensitive I do think that some applications with certain prop loads may take a little more time and fiddling to figure out the best settings but this can be true of many combinations. As far as the timing thing goes, if on your approach the engine RPM is coming down to 2500 or less, the timing will not be holding the RPM up. As I said earlier, I do prefer the standard Rcexl ignition module on the DLE20 and 30 but it does make carb needle settings more critical and no one can do it for you, meaning I can't run it on my bench and adjust it to idle at 1600 then ship it to you and it be the same, your fuel/oil mix and different ambient conditions will be different enough that it would need adjusting.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:11 PM
  #3246
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Jim,
Your Seagull AT-6 is awesome!!! There is one at my LHS and I've wondered how it would look dressed out. The DLE 20 should be a hoss on the T-6... I just got my Waco YMF 5 from GP in a couple of days ago. I am using a DLE 20 on it and the weight will probably be 14# or better. I think it will fly OK even at that weight. I'm just doing big loops and lazy rolls anyway. Let us know about the test flight soon I hope.
Thanks for posting the pic's...I wish your daughter good luck in recovering and you good luck in baby sitting. I do that quite often also.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Nice plane cannonball
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:28 PM
  #3248
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Thanks Johnny Zero!!
I know it's an arf but it is still a nice Waco. I'm making a few changes to it such as the tail wheel and dress it up some but I am wanting to fly it.. I had one about 5 years ago that was scratch built from Pica plans (72") and it flew great with a Saito 180. There is a picture of it posted in my gallery here on RCU. We will see how the Dle 20 works. I hope it does because it fits in the cowl good.
Thanks,
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:34 PM
  #3249
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Cannonball - that's a gorgeous plane. But GP recommends up to a 30cc gasser. Wouldn't you want that extra horsepower, for just another $50? Seems like it would be a good fit for that plane, given the weight.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

hey guys , i wanted to experimant with the DLE -20 in making my own home made mufflur simlair to the bud mufflers i have seen on other threads.

check out my comparion vid of the muffler. and give me your comments. Idont thing you will notic a huge drop in sound in the vid but in real life the sound is drops a few Dbs

comments please

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqD9d8uPqK0[/youtube]
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