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  1. #5476

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


    ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

    The only way to get a meaningful spark plug reading is to do what we call a ''clean cut''. You run the engine at full throttle for at least a minute, then shut the engine off without allowing it to idle. If you let an engine run at anything less than full throttle, like throttled back to land and idled into the pits, your plug reading will not indicate at all what is going on at full throttle.

    Note: Don't try to run an engine at full throttle on the ground for more than a few seconds at a time or it most likely will overheat.

    AV8TOR
    Getting off track here, but you can get around the "clean cut" plan by learning to read the electrodes. You need to know what you're looking for, and you need pretty good eyes as well. The ground electrode is usually easist to read, but the other is often just as distinct. If you look closely at it the tip starts off pretty light, and then at some point goes a shade darker. That point varies along the length of the electrode from out near the tip (rich) to down near the threads (dangerously lean). You're looking for something near the bend in the electrode (or maybe a little closer to the tip side of the bend?) as a safe place to be - assuming it's running OK. Get used to reading your plugs this way, and you can forget what color they are. This way is much more accurate.

  2. #5477
    chandley43231's Avatar
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    ok guys heres maybe a question already adressed in the past     so if i put my DLE into my tp P-51d hurry honey it will of course have to be put in inverted  woops i jsut called a buddy an found   daaa you cant just rotate the carb 180 degrees  i put my ignition just behind the fire wall  with my lower open slot in front of the wing dows connection getting a rcexl opti kill swtich get pics  soon have the plane on u tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icOo1...feature=relmfu
    CORSAIR BROTHERHOOD #85

  3. #5478

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    av8tor \ ahicks - on your posts about reading the plug electrodes, you say you need to run the engine at full throttle for at least a minute and then cut it cold, but can't do that on the ground, or it'll overheat. So we're talking about a planned deadstick?

  4. #5479
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Yes. That is the best way to check a tune. Kill it after WOT. Drag racing, I kill the car after my pass and coast to the return road and pull over to the side and check plugs. With a plane, you will need to deadstick
    QQ 120\" Yak, QQ 86\" Evolution, QQ 69\" Saito 1.25, QQ 49\" 32SX, QQ E-Yak, H9 T-Craft G-26, etc

  5. #5480

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


    ORIGINAL: microdon2

    av8tor \ ahicks - on your posts about reading the plug electrodes, you say you need to run the engine at full throttle for at least a minute and then cut it cold, but can't do that on the ground, or it'll overheat. So we're talking about a planned deadstick?
    No, actually the method I'm talking about is more about spotting a trend? You don't have to dead stick/land. Idling for a minute isn't going to change it enough to matter.

    I think you need to fly it, and if everything seems right, you can verify that with a plug reading. Trying to adjust a carb on an engine that doesn't seem right in the air using plug readings doesn't usually work well, for me anyway.

    I'm not sure I would ever run a setting that might overheat the engine on the ground? I've never had trouble that way?

  6. #5481
    mach2's Avatar
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


    ORIGINAL: chandley43231

    ok guys heres maybe a question already adressed in the past so if i put my DLE into my tp P-51d hurry honey it will of course have to be put in inverted woops i jsut called a buddy an found daaa you cant just rotate the carb 180 degrees i put my ignition just behind the fire wall with my lower open slot in front of the wing dows connection getting a rcexl opti kill swtich get pics soon have the plane on u tubehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icOo1...feature=relmfu
    Not sure of your question. But if you are asking about rotating the carb upside down, or 180 degrees, then yes, i dont see any reason why you cant. I posted this to another person probably a few pages back. Page 215, post 5372

    If you do it right, it should be fine. Pull the two screws out and flip it with the nylon intake. dont rotate the aluminum back plate though. (the aluminum plate on the back of the crankcase, that the nylon intake goes into).

    however, running it inverted, this allows you to adjust your H and L needles from the top. I like this on my plane. Maybe you dont want to cut a hole in the top of your cowl.

    Jeremy

    86" Aeroworks Extra 300, RCGF 60cc (under construction)
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  7. #5482
    av8tor1977's Avatar
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Cooling airflow isn't sufficient on the ground for most cowled airplanes for sustained full throttle runs. The aircraft really needs to be moving through the air to have sufficient cooling for sustained full throttle operation. I realize one would think the prop blast would be enough, but in many cases it's not....

    AV8TOR
    If it is not SCARY, it is NO WHERE NEAR powerful enough!!
    All R/C planes have expiration dates---> It's just not printed on them anywhere!

  8. #5483

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


    ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

    Cooling airflow isn't sufficient on the ground for most cowled airplanes for sustained full throttle runs. The aircraft really needs to be moving through the air to have sufficient cooling for sustained full throttle operation. I realize one would think the prop blast would be enough, but in many cases it's not....

    AV8TOR
    Equally important, the load on the engine will change.

  9. #5484
    av8tor1977's Avatar
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Yes, that's quite true. A good portion of the prop blade is stalled when standing still, causing a higher load on the engine. That's why an engine turns much higher rpms in the air. How much higher depends on the prop pitch and the drag of the airplane.

    AV8TOR
    If it is not SCARY, it is NO WHERE NEAR powerful enough!!
    All R/C planes have expiration dates---> It's just not printed on them anywhere!

  10. #5485

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


    ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

    Yes, that's quite true. A good portion of the prop blade is stalled when standing still, causing a higher load on the engine. That's why an engine turns much higher rpms in the air. How much higher depends on the prop pitch and the drag of the airplane.

    AV8TOR
    Some of this seems counter intuitive to me? Maybe you could expand a little please?

    "Stalled", to me, should be UN-loading the prop? When you "stall" a wing, it stops producing lift. If the prop blades stop producing lift (because they're stalled), what's left to load the engine? Or have I completely missed your point?

    I alway thought the reason an engine turned higher rpms in the air was because air being force fed into the front of the prop - unloading it to a degree compared to having it just sitting there? For instance, this same engine/prop might slow down again when the plane goes vertical (assuming less than 3D power for a moment). This is because the blades are "stalling"?

    The earlier comments regarding cooling at WOT on the ground - I agree with you if you're thinking of a fairly tightly cowled (possibly scale) setup. No argument. I was thinking more along the lines of a sport plane. Think Ugly Stick, with a totally exposed engine for instance? I would be scared to run a carb setting that might overheat an "open" engine running WOT on the ground... and many "loosely" cowled installs as well.

    And yes, agreed beyond any doubt, ANY tuning done on the ground cannot be assumed to be best possible. That takes some flying....
    Just me....

  11. #5486
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Any time an airfoil is stalled or nearly so, it is also creating lots of drag. This loads the engine. As the airflow begins to go through the propellor as the airplane accelerates, the blades experience an effective reduction of angle of attack, unstall, and produce less drag. Hence the engine speeds up due to having less load on it. I have seen this on the ground while taching engines too. Point the airplane into the wind, and your tach reading at full throttle will increase. And of course I have experienced it as a pilot of full size airplanes as well. This is why a "constant speed" prop, which is cockpit adjustable, is very effective. You can flatten or lower, the pitch of the prop for takeoff, which makes the prop much more efficient starting from a stop and at low speeds. Then, when in cruise, you increase the pitch, making the prop more effective at that speed. The key is that the airflow through the prop changes the effective angle of attack of the blades.

    As far as the cooling angle, I understand your point. But even an uncowled sport airplane engine can get too warm with extended full throttle running on the ground. They need the added airflow from being in flight to be safe at extended full throttle usage. The center area of the prop makes a poor cooling fan.

    More on cooling here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11071695/tm.htm

    Hope this helps,
    AV8TOR
    If it is not SCARY, it is NO WHERE NEAR powerful enough!!
    All R/C planes have expiration dates---> It's just not printed on them anywhere!

  12. #5487

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Cooling problem solved, just use one of these www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200448627_200448627
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  13. #5488

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


    ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

    Any time an airfoil is stalled or nearly so, it is also creating lots of drag. This loads the engine. As the airflow begins to go through the propellor as the airplane accelerates, the blades experience an effective reduction of angle of attack, unstall, and produce less drag. Hence the engine speeds up due to having less load on it. I have seen this on the ground while taching engines too. Point the airplane into the wind, and your tach reading at full throttle will increase. And of course I have experienced it as a pilot of full size airplanes as well. This is why a ''constant speed'' prop, which is cockpit adjustable, is very effective. You can flatten or lower, the pitch of the prop for takeoff, which makes the prop much more efficient starting from a stop and at low speeds. Then, when in cruise, you increase the pitch, making the prop more effective at that speed. The key is that the airflow through the prop changes the effective angle of attack of the blades.

    As far as the cooling angle, I understand your point. But even an uncowled sport airplane engine can get too warm with extended full throttle running on the ground. They need the added airflow from being in flight to be safe at extended full throttle usage. The center area of the prop makes a poor cooling fan.

    More on cooling here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11071695/tm.htm

    Hope this helps,
    AV8TOR
    Ok, I was thinking "stalled" as in past tense - after it's stalled. I've got what you're saying now. Thanks

  14. #5489
    Falcon32's Avatar
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    HI Guys
    Thinking of changing the ignition on my DLE20 (No4).
    It's not so easy to find a replacement here in the UK.
    Is this the one I need ? RCEXL Model A-01

    Thanks
    Iā€™d rather be twiddling my thumbs.

  15. #5490

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


    ORIGINAL: ahicks


    ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

    Any time an airfoil is stalled or nearly so, it is also creating lots of drag. This loads the engine. As the airflow begins to go through the propellor as the airplane accelerates, the blades experience an effective reduction of angle of attack, unstall, and produce less drag. Hence the engine speeds up due to having less load on it. I have seen this on the ground while taching engines too. Point the airplane into the wind, and your tach reading at full throttle will increase. And of course I have experienced it as a pilot of full size airplanes as well. This is why a ''constant speed'' prop, which is cockpit adjustable, is very effective. You can flatten or lower, the pitch of the prop for takeoff, which makes the prop much more efficient starting from a stop and at low speeds. Then, when in cruise, you increase the pitch, making the prop more effective at that speed. The key is that the airflow through the prop changes the effective angle of attack of the blades.

    As far as the cooling angle, I understand your point. But even an uncowled sport airplane engine can get too warm with extended full throttle running on the ground. They need the added airflow from being in flight to be safe at extended full throttle usage. The center area of the prop makes a poor cooling fan.

    More on cooling here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11071695/tm.htm

    Hope this helps,
    AV8TOR
    Ok, I was thinking ''stalled'' as in past tense - after it's stalled. I've got what you're saying now. Thanks
    Compare a spin to a vertical dive. The plane is stalled during a spin and the speed is much slower than durin a dive which is not stalled

  16. #5491

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    How much more power can be gained from updating muffler?

  17. #5492

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Best update...is a Mintor 22cc engine. Nice ! Capt,n
    I never met a engine I did not like !

    http://www.lambertsrc.com/

  18. #5493
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    What is this mintor 22cc you have been mentioning? Are you getting paid for advertisement? haha.

    Im gonna look them up. Ive heard about them a couple times now. Im in the market for a 30cc. Im pretty set on the DLE30 since I know its good. But Why not keep the options open....

    Jeremy
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  19. #5494
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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  20. #5495

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Well after months of sitting in the shop, I finally put the wing on my Deweyville, fired up the engine, which started right up and ran good, and took off.  Once it was in the air, the exhaust sound was more scale like than I had imagined, and at 1/3rd throttle an overhead pass sounded and looked like a real plane. It was awesome.  I do need to downsize the prop though, it pulled the plane well, and it wasn't more power than I had thought it would be when at WOT, but the prop did strike the ground when I landed, and it was a good landing, but since I land on grass, all it takes is a slight bump for the blade to strike, so going to find a 3 blade MAS K to replace the 16X8 MAS K I put on it for my maiden.  Good thing too, the XOAR would have most likely snapped, and that would have been $15 down the drain, especially considering it wasnt for this plane, but the P-51.  Going to give the 15x7x3 a try and see how it does.  Who knows, maybe it will work good and when I finish the Stang, I will make it an A model and run the 3 blade on it.
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  21. #5496

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    A 15x7x3 may not be enough to load the engine. I had a 16x8x3 on an Aeroworks Extra 260 and was getting 8900 RPM

  22. #5497

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    First page shows it was tested,

    MA K-series 15x6 3-blade[/b] 13.0lbs @ 9100 rpm

    Should work on my plane, haven't weighed it, but it is no lightweight.
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  23. #5498
    mach2's Avatar
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    How much performance is lost by going to a three or even a four blade prop?

    I think putting the scale prop on planes like an Extra or an Edge would look cool. But its so common to see the models with two blade props, it almost makes me forget that the real ones use three blades.....

    I know on the full scale planes, three blades are more effecient, so Is that why large scale models sometimes have 3 blades? And what's the effeciency cuttoff?

    86" Aeroworks Extra 300, RCGF 60cc (under construction)
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  24. #5499

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    WWII planes had high horsepower and needed a lot of prop. Ground clearance was a problem. The Corsair went to a Gull Wing to help with ground clearance. Another issue is that a 9' diameter prop at 2500 rpm will have the tip exceeding the speed of sound. This would cause a lot of stress on the prop and loose efficiency. The multi blade props were used more as a sacrafice than to get more out of the engine, they just made a bigger engine to compensate

  25. #5500

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    For the Dewey, performance isn't much of a concern   I just need the ground clearance. A 2 blade 15" would definitely overspeed the motor.
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