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DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Old 10-10-2012, 01:50 PM
  #5851
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Guys, I have a GP60 Stick with a DLE20 on the front. It's a blast to fly and pretty well defines "unlimited vertical". Great everyday flyer. OK, had to add 3 ounces of lead on the tail to get a balance (and that was with the A123 2300 pack as far back in the tail as it will go... built a magnetic hatch). Also using an Ultra IBEC so that's the only battery. 16x6 APC gets me to 85mph according to our radar gun! I know that's a bit small on the prop but not enough ground clearance for the 17x6 Xoar I normally run. As soon as I get a chance I'll swap to a 16x8 before I blow it up from over-revving! Course then I may pull the wing off on my next high speed pass but hey, its just for fun, right?
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Cool report on the mid size stick. Did you have to beef up the firewall? Which single battery are you using, good for all day?
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:09 AM
  #5853
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


New to gas engines, so looking for some advice!

When I close the throttle quickly on my DLE20 the idle RPM's drop below what they are when I close the throttle slowly, they creep back up after a few seconds. Is this normal or is the carb tuning out, it runs really well besides.

I have a 55 ign module and have set the timing to 28 BTDC, also cleaned the flashing from the reed block, plug colour also looks good.

Thanks,

John





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Old 10-11-2012, 08:22 AM
  #5854
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Most likely if it drops when you close it fast is the mixture goes rich very quickly, and since you are using the 55 EI that doesn't have that timing curve thingamabob that advances the ignition, the results are what they are. Not sure if there is a fix with the needles or not.  In a sense you are choking the engine when you close it fast,  the draw of the piston at high speed will keep drawing fuel, but the air draw suddenly decreases, so it goes rich, then when the mixture returns to the correct setting at idle, the engine runs normally.   Could be timing related, could be the mixture settings, but most likely this is the reason for the sudden drop in RPM's.   Close the choke at full throttle and see what happens, most likely you will see the same thing happen, only it may sputter too. 

Could this be the reason the #4 ignition has that high idle when the throttle is closed?  Mine does it, sometimes, other times it slows down nicely. 
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:45 AM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Can your LS needle take any more leaning out? Seems like that might help if indeed it is going rich on the deceleration. What kind of servo are you using on throttle? The small cheap ones don't always center very well.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:36 AM
  #5856
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


Thanks for the input guys.

acdii, what you say makes a lot of sense, I think I need to stop treating it like a glow engine! I've only done a few flights so far and its behaved in the air really well, maybe I just need to adapt to it a bit.

Ernie, its a very cheap servo never thought of that! could well be the cause.
I'll leave the adjustment on the LS needle for a while as its only got about 45 mins running so far, I have tried to set it a little rich for running in flights.

Thanks again, much appreciated.

John
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:42 AM
  #5857
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

had trouble getting my dle 20 to slow to idle from full or 1/2 throttle-wound up going a little richer on the idle and now it works fine
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:49 AM
  #5858
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

On my GP Stick 60 I did nothing to the firewall at all. It seems plenty strong. I'm running a 2S A123 2300mah battery from Radical. I'd be suprised if I had to charge more often than once every 10 flights or so but I think I've only run 6 or so max between charges. It's so quick and easy to recharge I don't see the point in stretching it out. If I get a chance and think to, I'll try to top it off and then keep track of flights and times and see what it takes to bring it back to full. Then I can report back with hard data on battery usage. Went and got an 16x8 to test with as well so will be interesting to see how the speed changes.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:37 AM
  #5859
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

If thats an ARF, I would reinforce the FW on it just to be sure. Easy enough, some 30 minute epoxy and two strips of fiberglass on the corners should do it. It may seem like its strong now, but given time with that vibrator on the front, and it wont last long.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:30 PM
  #5860
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Yes I am with reinforcing the fire wall, having ripped an ARF apart with a gas engine before. takes little time with epoxy and glass so may as well do it and be confident.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:57 PM
  #5861
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Sounds good. I was going to work on my 4* tonight, but there is a show I like on tonight, and going to pop some popcorn and watch jobo and ryan duke it out.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

You can also "pin" that firewall with servo screws or 2-56 socket head bolts.
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:54 PM
  #5863
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Hello Guys,

I finally started my DLE20. DLE20 with a Xoar 17X6 Beechwood Prop, which according to some people come pre-balanced from the factory. My question is what is the minimum RPM should I have to have and the highest RPM on WOT.
Also please tell me the LSN and HSN settings along with IDLE screw settings.

Thanks


Mody
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:25 PM
  #5864
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


Quote:
ORIGINAL: armody

Hello Guys,

I finally started my DLE20. DLE20 with a Xoar 17X6 Beechwood Prop, which according to some people come pre-balanced from the factory. My question is what is the minimum RPM should I have to have and the highest RPM on WOT.
Also please tell me the LSN and HSN settings along with IDLE screw settings.

Thanks


Mody
I just started my DLE20 today for the first time. It's running a XOAR 17x6 prop. Initially I'm getting around 1700rpm for idle and 7500 on the high end, but running it a bit rich for now. Sounded really nice especially at idle.........a little loud on the top end but the guys that were here were pretty impressed with the engine. One is a long time gas user and has a DA50 and a DLE55 and sounded like he would like to add the DLE20 to his collection. The engine is in a GP PT17 Stearman. Don't know when I will fly it but all systems are go at this time. I liked having the servo acutated choke and the Smart-Fly optical kill switch as well as a manual switch and the Rcexl tach. Everything worked great!!

Andy
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:11 PM
  #5865
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

IMHO playing the "rpm game" is a waste of time. No two engines will turn the same rpm with the same prop. The ones turning much higher or lower aren't better or worse, just different. A far better question is whether or not a given engine/prop combination works well for a given airplane and flying style. A 1700rpm idle is very good for a DLE 20 and won't get much better, normally. As far as the top rpm is concerned, anywhere between overpropped and blowing up is a good starting point. The only thing left to do then is FLY it. How it behaves in the air will guide you on which direction to go on prop size. Duplicating a proven combination for your airplane's maiden is usually the best and safest way to start. You can then tailor it to your individual taste and flying style with small prop-size changes. This method has served me well and has been used since shortly after Orville and Wilbur established it.
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:49 AM
  #5866
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Mody - that idle stop screw should have been removed when you hooked up the throttle servo. From that point on, the servo will be used to control idle speed - NOT that screw!

Re: the LS and HS settings, you can use 1.5 turns on both as starting settings to get the engine running. After that/from there, using settings that work for somebody else is a bad plan. You'll have no idea of the differences in all the tuning variables their engine vs. yours? Weather, cooling available to the cylinder, prop size/brand, broken in vs. not, etc. are all important factors in determining what YOUR engine needs - and where it's needles will be set to run best?

Also, props should be balanced prior to install no matter what anyone tells you. No manf. is perfect, even if they have a reputation for turning out balanced props. If it really is balanced, the check itself only takes seconds....

Re: prop size, the 17x6 (acrobatic/3D/heavier planes) and 16x8 (cleaner faster types) have a great history with this engine. Tuned well after break in, either should have no trouble turning well over 8000 (85-8700 range not that unusual).
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:09 AM
  #5867
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Ahicks and guys,

Thank y'all for responding to my question. OK the idle screw with the spring "it should be taken off"? that's what you advise Ahicks? Secondly that's my first DLE20 gasser engine. I've always been flying glow planes and from 2012 I decided to go on gasser since Gassers are a dime a dozen in the market. I bought my Yak 54 120 from nitroplanes for $140 I think including shipping which was a pretty good deal. Canopy is kinda flimsy but over all plane ain't that bad.

I bought the Yak 54 120 with DLE20 since the start of 2012 but due to my wife's heart issues, financial issues, studies did not allow me to do anything. Now things are pretty better, college is still there, have gotten a permanent job and things are gonna streamlining now and hopefully 2013 is gonna be the start of the economic prosperity of America.

Now let me get down to business. A guy in my club told me that Xoar prop's balancing is not necessary since it's been ruled out so I gotta get me a prop balancer. All I gotta do is to tweak with LSN and HSN? Lowest RPM should be in the range of under 2,000 and higher RPM should not be over 8,200 if that is correct? This is my first experimental plane, as I have not been flying for almost a year my Yak, and also club dues are there too. Due to Renaissance Festival the traffic gets worse and traffic creeps and crawls bumper to bumper on weekends so people avoid going to the club due to this festival. I've been advised that I should at least run a gallon through my DLE20 then I would be able to fly it. Since the maiden flight would not done before December of this year so I'm trying to run the engine through as much as possible.

I'm also planning to buy Seagull's model Dewoitine D.520 120 ARF

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...eviews=true#t3

and the engine is RCGF 15CC

http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...7&pid=G1204332

I wanna make sure to experiment on DLE20, get a hang of it, fly my Yak properly so that I can mess up with other plane. Dewoitine has absolutely beautiful color scheme and 15CC is gonna be a good choice. I'd also like to ask y'all if you had any experience with RCGF 15 or something.

So please whatever inputs/ experiences you have let me know so I can be ready this December to have my maiden done.

Thanks and have safe flying[8D]



Mody
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:22 PM
  #5868
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Mody, yes remove that screw and spring entirely.

I wouldn't normally recommend running a gallon of gas through an engine prior to flying it. I generally will get it running, get the adjustment screws close, then go fly it - maybe as soon as the second or 3rd tankful? For a first timer with time on your hands, go ahead. Play with it and get to know it a little - but waiting for a gal. of fuel to run through it? Wait until you see how long that will take!

Put the 17x6 on it and don't worry about rpms. It's a pretty safe bet it will keep you out of trouble. BTW, I'm probably not the best guy to talk to regarding balancing. I've gotten good at it over the years, so being fanatical about it is pretty easy for me. Only takes a few minutes for most. Being retired though, I can screw with something like that for a long time getting it just right!

I fly the inexpensive Chinese stuff some too, but they're purchased knowing full well if I need a cowl or canopy later, they're not going to be available. If you break the plane, you fix what's left or move on to the next one!

A couple thoughts regarding the new plane? Wondering first if you're experienced flying the stuff with that kind of wing loading? Second, I've been looking for a excuse to pick up one of those 15's. The problem for me has been finding right plane, realizing the DLE 20 is only 3oz heavier while providing significantly more thrust? In my mind, the plane that fits this engine best is light and doesn't need a lot of thrust - like a Cub or something? Otherwise, it's too easy to justify an over achieving, light weight DLE 20 for power.

Great to hear things are getting turned around for you. Very best of luck to you and yours on that front! -Al
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:47 PM
  #5869
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Hi

It will take forever to run a gallon through the DLE20. The gas engine guys at my field sugest that you start the engine in the model with the wings on , tune it and go fly.

Flying improves the air flow to keep it cool. You can also leave the cowl off. Try to avoid hovers etc that reduce air flow over the engine.

shuttle.

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Old 10-28-2012, 01:55 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

As the the new plane, the first review lists the engine as a DLE 20 and said its a great combo. From the specs, the 15cc will be too small.

Bill S.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:18 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Ahicks

I've gone ahead and removed the idle screw off the engine. Well that's true it would take ages to run through the gallon of fuel. I was also told to run may be 3 to 4 full tanks until you are ready to fly this thing. I'm still gonna tweak with LSN and HSN as well and until I get the desired power not to worry about RPM, I'd fly this. I'd be able to do that December and I'd try to get the prop balancer and balance the prop. Thanks a lot Al.

ShuttleAU Thanks for your input. I'm not planning to hover this plane as yet. I'm gonna fly it and do the regular circuits on it and some vertical climbs which I love.

Twin Flyer About the Seagull Model Dewoitine D.520, you are absolutely right. The recommended two stroke is 1.20 to 1.25CI which is exactly close to 20CC. Yes 15CC is gonna be little low power on it. I guess DLE20 is gonna be good choice for that. I've started calculating already what do I need for this plane. BTW, which retract servo is good for it and how many Oz of torque requires for retract?

Thanks

Mody
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:22 PM
  #5872
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Though getting Seagull's Dewoitine D.520 is little early. This is also gonna be a December's project though.

Is this retract OK?

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...gsReviews=true

Any further inputs and experiences regarding DLE20 are still appreciated.

Thanks

Mody
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:00 PM
  #5873
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I ran a half tank on the ground through my DLE20, and after 15 minutes, got tired of the noise.  I flew it after that. The engine will run 30 minutes on 14oz of gas.  On my 4* I set the needles for best idle and transition and just flew. It was doing very good until a wing snapped off. I'm hoping the engine is OK, haven't had a chance to run it since.  I flew with an APC 16x8.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:48 PM
  #5874
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

If you get a 20cc engine, check this one out. Very similar to the DLE but comes with a genuine walbro carb and rcexcel ignition with the proper advance curve. This price of $179 won't last long and will go up to $239 with the next batc of engines at Valley View. I just bought one and sent it to Frank Bowman to make a ring for it, so Frank has rings available for the XYZ 20cc now in stock.

http://www.valleyviewrc.com/estore/x...as-engine.html
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:03 PM
  #5875
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

acdii I hope the engine is OK, I'm sure your plane did not take a nose dive, and engine slammed into the ground hard. Well I've noticed one thing, that DLE20 certainly has a tremendous power and a great thrust.

Ernie Misner This XYZ engine looks like a great deal to me. Not bad at all, with Walbro Carb and RCExel ignition, good deal. BTW what kind of ring it needs? which ring are you talking about if you can clarify it? Do we all need to send to somebody who makes the ring for it?????
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