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  1. #6326

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Sounds good for the top end adjustment. On the low speed I lean it out until it will not transition well (stumbles or dies when the throttle is advanced), then come back just rich enough to get a good dependable transition when the throttle is cracked wide open rapidly. Check the high speed one more time after this is achieved and you should be good to go. Stay high until you know it's right.


    I need to get a bigger fuel tank, I can only stay up for a 1/2 hour!

  2. #6327
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    757jonp,

    Thanks for the input. I'd keep ya guys updated on my next flights!
    It's great2 keep flying invariably. Hitec Aurora9 2.4 GHz, Yak 54-120 XYZ 20, MXS-R RCG 20 (AMA Member)

  3. #6328
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Guys,

    I forgot to ask y'all about my maiden flight. As I flew my plane at a huge retention pond, I had one nose over while taking off as it has still lots of twigs laying around and slightly taller grass. Prop tip has not broken but the edge has gotten slightly serrated? Prop is Xoar 17X6 beechwood, and I did balance it before I installed it. Do I have to replace the prop or do I use it the way it is. Do you think Vess or Bambula are any good props especially for DLE20, only beechwood ones?

    Thanks

    Mody
    It's great2 keep flying invariably. Hitec Aurora9 2.4 GHz, Yak 54-120 XYZ 20, MXS-R RCG 20 (AMA Member)

  4. #6329

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    DONT use it any more props are cheep body parts not so much !!!

    you have one of the best props going JMO but dont take a chance if you have never seen a prop BLOW up

    it takes only 1 time and you would not be asking usthat !!!! R/L

  5. #6330

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Mody, without seeing your prop its hard to say? Replacing it is the safe answer for sure...

    That's why I run APC props. I fly from grass (always), sometimes rough grass, and I love screwing around with tail wheel first landings and "Harrier" type approaches. Less than gracefull "arrivals" not that uncommon, pretty regular actually. Wood props simply won't handle that abuse, seldom surviving even one encounter. APC's often go an entire season. Run what you like....

  6. #6331

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    10-4 on the nylon props for rough duty! I managed the whole season on the same wood prop on the Mojo (on grass), but that was just sheer luck.

  7. #6332
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    acii, the deposits on your plug are worrisome and could have caused the deadstick. What kind of oil and how much are you running? What kind of gas? I've seen weird deposits in the past from gas with lead in it but that would not be from todays standard pump gas. It hasn't been running way too rich or lean has it?

  8. #6333
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    RiverLarry,

    I thought that I should stick with Xoar, no doubt they're great props. For the gas motor I was told by my hobby guy to use APC, but if I'm to use APC, probably I'd go for MAS. In the first place, I went for Xoar, I mistakenly bought Zinger 16X6 or 16X7, which I never used it. I'm gonna keep it for my other motor for break in either DLE20 or XYZ20 or RCGF20. I was told that beechwood prop breaks easily resulting in not damaging the crank of the motor. I stick with Xoar.

    ahicks,

    I have now looked at the prop again, it's barely negligible jagged edges little rough, barely noticeable only upon touching it. So I guess I don't have to freak out anymore since it's barely noticeable. To be on safe side, I'm gonna buy another Xoar 17X6 for back up in case.


    My motor would take time I'm sure as I started off directly with Synthetic oil, not non synthetic oil and I used the same Xoar 17X6 beechwood prop for break in and flying.

    Thanks

    Mody
    It's great2 keep flying invariably. Hitec Aurora9 2.4 GHz, Yak 54-120 XYZ 20, MXS-R RCG 20 (AMA Member)

  9. #6334

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


    ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

    acii, the deposits on your plug are worrisome and could have caused the deadstick. What kind of oil and how much are you running? What kind of gas? I've seen weird deposits in the past from gas with lead in it but that would not be from todays standard pump gas. It hasn't been running way too rich or lean has it?
    Never had a dead stick with the DLE, had a wing snap off though, which led to a crash, but I had cut ignition long before it struck, so the plug is oil soaked from that. Engine ran great up til then.
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  10. #6335
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Hello Guys,

    Last Saturday I went to fly my Yak 54 with DLE20 on it. A week ago I already had a maiden on it which I enjoyed very much. As I spoke to y'all about tweaking the LSN and HSN of the motor. I had made few changes and following things happened on that day within total 3 flights despite I had a plan to have at least 5 to 6 flights on it.

    The first flight was good, and at the time of landing, I could not get the plane to land slow as the RPM was at least 2,400 + or -, I had hard time landing the plane, but I managed to land it.

    On second flight, I decided to tweak on both LSN and HSN. I turned both of them to the close position and turned both 1/8 turn on both of it, I did not get the right rpm on full throttle. I may have turned it to 2/8 then I was getting a good rpm and sound was telling me it's running right and idle seemed to be running OK. It flew well, and when time came to land the plane, same issue, idle was high, despite I did do some adjustments on my Aurora 9 TX with EPA and throttle adjustments, the plane would come down very hot and I had missed 3 to 4 landings and I had to fly the plane away, finally I made the final approach for landing and ended up land pretty distant which ended up breaking the prop, which was Xoar 17X6 on it. I thought as unfortunately I did not have a back prop except for Zinger 16X6 which is no doubt a crappy prop, but I guess good for bench run or something. As I wanted to fly, I reluctantly changed the prop and installed Zinger 16X6 on it which was there. My LHS is always outta items which I need most so, I have to wait for a week.

    Anyway I prepared for the 3rd flight and I knew I had to tweak both HSN and LSN. I started the motor and as I advanced it to full throttle, it would bog down and try to quit, I would pull the stick back and on half to 3/4 of throttle I was getting the sound of WOT and I adjusted the HSN which didn't seem to be a good idea but I got the right sound for the right rpm, and idle was seemingly working OK at that time. I took the plane off, and after 6 minutes, It started sputter on half throttle and on high too, then I felt that now motor is struggle so hard to run and plane started losing the altitude and I kinda knew that it may be overly rich on HSN, as I thought to land it and struggled it to keep it flying and close to the landing approach, here comes the important part DLE20 QUIT IN THE AIR/ DEAD STICK, Can anyone explain it to me? Yak 54 ain't good in gliding, a dead stick makes this plane a dead weight up in there however, I managed to land it and barely itty bitty damaged the landing gear which I've fixed already as Yak 54 120 from Nitro planes didn't go good job on landing gear and the bottom of the plate where landing gear is screwed bolted.

    After that I didn't even try to fly it, I saw other people's flying and I called it a day. One of the guy who turned out to be best flier and happens to own a LHS, he said I'd recommend you to use Vess props, Xoar props are OK, since he sells Vess so he was recommending that.

    Now when it comes to DLE20 which props are best for it. Xoar, Vess, Bambula all beechwood or APC, MAS nylon props. Why the idle is not getting stable as I want to, upon cranking up the motor it seems to be working fine, but after one or two advancement of throttle, it seems after even 10+ seconds it does not slow it down?

    What's wrong with it? I'd appreciate y'all detailed explanations.

    Thanks

    Mody
    It's great2 keep flying invariably. Hitec Aurora9 2.4 GHz, Yak 54-120 XYZ 20, MXS-R RCG 20 (AMA Member)

  11. #6336

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Mody... Glad you didn't have any major damage. I've had exactly the same problem you're having, you're in the landing pattern and the dang thing will not slow down! What's going on is you're experiencing the same situation that folks have been talking about with that unusual timing curve on the ignition. On the ground the engine responds to the throttle normally, but in the air it's a different ballgame. When you hold the plane on the ground the prop is constantly under a load, but when in the air it unloads, and when you bring the engine down to idle,(while flying) the speed of the plane through the air is now unloading (windmilling) even the prop even further. Full advance timing is somewhere around 2500-3000 rpm, and you need to get under that to achieve a normal idle. Depending on the airframe and you're skllls, it can be a booger to get a nice...normal...landing. But you adapt to it once you understand what's happening.

    I had one plane that weighed 14 lbs that the only way I could get a good "normal" landing was to really stretch out the landing glide on it allowing the speed to bleed off enough to get it to idle for a landing...tricky at best. Sometimes it would get to the point where it would suddenly come down to full idle before you really wanted it to, resulting in a rough landing if you weren't careful.

    That Yak should be a "floater" and should glide forever if you have the CG setup right. If you've got it setup nose heavy, it'll tend to land "hot" and that'll aggravate the problem.

    Regardless of what others say, no amount of fiddling with the carb will eliminate this characteristic of this engine...

  12. #6337
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Some of the videos, please bear with me. These videos were shot by a flier at the field used HTC One X phone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBgmKgNPqY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ssReu8r73A

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAkoNG_8W9U

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikVuM1aJSXE
    It's great2 keep flying invariably. Hitec Aurora9 2.4 GHz, Yak 54-120 XYZ 20, MXS-R RCG 20 (AMA Member)

  13. #6338
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    757jonp,

    Thanks for the reply. One thing I'd like to ask you which prop are you using on you DLE20. This time should I go with Vess? As I already asked my LHS to get me two Xoar 17X6 props, or at least I'd get one. My LHS does not sell Vess props. About the idle timing, I'd have to play with it again once' I've gotten the prop, I'd balance it and put it on the motor. My flying skills are pretty good as those people saw me flying they say it, and pretty impressed with it. CG is absolutely perfect, it was done by my mentor and I found not a single problem with it neither nose heavy nor tail heavy, it's perfect. I have fixed the landing gear, and since it can take little rough landing but abuse of it would easily pop 'em out. In all my landings I landing the plane very smoothly and Yak 54 does come hot but with correct landing approach it lands sweet.

    Any thoughts about props? Vess or continue with Xoar, I don't wanna use APC.

    Mody
    It's great2 keep flying invariably. Hitec Aurora9 2.4 GHz, Yak 54-120 XYZ 20, MXS-R RCG 20 (AMA Member)

  14. #6339
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Please excuse my typos and some grammatical mistakes, since I type so fast I just look at the screen sometimes hand and mind coordination gets outta sync
    It's great2 keep flying invariably. Hitec Aurora9 2.4 GHz, Yak 54-120 XYZ 20, MXS-R RCG 20 (AMA Member)

  15. #6340
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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Sounds kinda lean to me. Sorry about the troubles you are having.
    AMA #77967/CD/LM

  16. #6341

    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Guys, go back to page 246. Take another look at my posts and videos...

    My planes now idle down when I ask them while in the air.. and it is not just me... I have customers that I sell the Rcexl standard ignition to with warbirds and other non 3D planes that say it makes a difference.

    One tip, when using the standard ignition that comes with the DLE 20... bring it back to what you consider your normal idle on downwind, on base and final try doing a mild cross control slip... This will force the airframe to slow down and at some point, the ignition timing curve will allow then engine to reach idle... try it up high if necessary to see the reaction, I dont make the turn from base to final while still in the slip... so I am in and out of the slip bleeding off endergy from the decent and the higher rpm...I always stop my side slip before I get to within one wingspan of the ground... it depends on the plane though really...

    Before I swapped my ignitions and re timed, I had a 7 pound profile plane that was way too light for this engine idled up and this is where I got to figures out some of this stuff..

    Vess are good props, I use the Xoar though.. Either is perfect, use what you like for availability or price..
    I Am WrongWayRC

  17. #6342

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    I started with MAS 16x8, then switched to an APC on mine. It ran better with the APC.  Tried a XOAR, but since it was 17" it flew too slow.   A lot of it depends on the plane too. I have flown it on a 4*120, and a deweyville. Dont recommend  it on that last plane, it may look like a big enough plane for it, but it cant handle the power. It is more of a 70 size plane.  

    It flew the 4* nicely, but never had enough flights in it to test various props when the wing snapped off.   I have a new one built and just need to complete the motor installation and it will be ready to fly. 
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  18. #6343

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Mody, if it quit, it's probably too lean. The fact you can't get it to idle down in flight is saying the same thing. When adjusting the LS needle, don't try to get the idle real smooth/even sounding - that's almost always lean. If it's right the idle should be kind of lumpy/uneven.

    When you get tired of breaking props, the APC works fine. Regarding the "bent crank" stories, if you manage to hit hard enough to bend a crank, it's not going to make much difference what prop you had on it.....

  19. #6344

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


    ORIGINAL: ahicks


    When you get tired of breaking props, the APC works fine. Regarding the "bent crank" stories, if you manage to hit hard enough to bend a crank, it's not going to make much difference what prop you had on it.....
    That is so true. Even an APC or MAS will snap before bending a crank, APC moreso than the MAS. Snapped several so far and all my cranks still crank.

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  20. #6345

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    So I could basically switch to a RCEXEL ignition and leave my timing as factory at 35'? Will this do away with the weird throttle step and hang before idle?

    Thanks
    Wes

    ORIGINAL: ahicks

    Bottom line, no need to mess with it when switching to a different module - unless you're concerned about the 28 vs. 35 degree timing - which is a totally different issue. Has nothing to do with the ign. module swap.

  21. #6346

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Wesjon... Basically if you want the engine to act "normal", changing out the ignition seems to be the only way to do it. I checked the timing on both of mine and found it to be set at 28-30 degrees and that's where I'm running them.

    Cheapest way to do it I found was to order from Hobby King, around $30 or so. (last time I looked about a month ago it was backordered, it is a Rcexel unit)

  22. #6347

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Her ya go...this will do it just fine!

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...s_Engines.html

  23. #6348

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    Thanks! Will check it out. Are the arms on the supplied hall sensor long enough to set it at 28 - 30'?

  24. #6349

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

    I didn't even change the sensor, just checked the timing while I was changing the ignition unit. There is room for adjustment though. Remember, the ignition fires as the sensor LEAVES the magnet. I think a lot of folks get confused about that resulting in mistiming their engines by several degrees.

  25. #6350

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    RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


    ORIGINAL: wesjon

    So I could basically switch to a RCEXEL ignition and leave my timing as factory at 35'? Will this do away with the weird throttle step and hang before idle?

    Thanks
    Wes
    You know, this question is one I have a tough time with, because the answer is yes and no? So many of us have run into this problem - which isn't helped a bit by this timing issue, admittedly - but a lot of guys (most?) have been able to adjust it out by running the low end on the rich side.

    So to explain, closing the throttle (eliminating the fuel that WAS helping to cool the engine) is what starts this chain of events. A hot 2 stroke with no load on it (prop is free wheeling as the plane slows) can "run away", requiring no ignition to run (that fact takes the module right out of the picture, no?). "Running away" often is what is happening here to some degree, but this isn't unique to this engine at all. Any 2 stoke can do it? Usually on our plane engines it's something temporary. After a few seconds it cools down, and drops back down to the idle speed we're expecting. The 2 things to help minimize the potential for this issue are an idle speed as low as reasonably possible (something under about 1900 here?) and a mixture rich enough to help cool the engine quickly when the throttle is closed (that's the big one).

    So yes, you sure can make the engine a LOT less sensitive to the issue by swapping to an ign. module that doesn't have a step in it, but no, you may still not cure the "hang" problem completely? Hope that helps. -Al


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